How do you size a bullet down .014"

[Old Time Hunter]

Guys, getting ready to put together some 11.15 X 60's and plan on taking a 20-1 cast from a 459HB-405 Lee mould that drops at .461 (and actually around 435 grains) down to .446/.447. Anybody actually do something like this before? Planned on sizing in two steps, one down to .454, then down to .446/7, think it can be done? Should I turn 'em upside down and push from the nose because they are hollow based boolits?

Then comes the real test, forming .348 brass into 43 Mauser.

[marlinman93]

I wouldn't push them through nose first, as that will cause the bases to be uneven and affect accuracy. I would run them through two steps, or get the right mold. I shoot a .44 Sharps and I'm using a Lee hollowbase mold #445-290. It cost a whopping $21, and casts a bullet of .446" and 290 grains pure lead. I use them as cast, and they have nice deep lube grooves that work nicely with blackpowder loads!-Vall

[Old Time Hunter]

Marlinman, are you sure that it is a Lee #445-290 mould? I can not find one in their catalog.

[Don McDowell]

You could run them thru a couple of the lee sizers, probably have to special order the final size.

Or you could just go with the rcbs 43 mauser mold. I don't recall the number but the one I have drops a 385 gr bullet at .446 when cast from 20-1. I shoot it in the 43 egyptian.

For brass you might want to consider going with 50-90 starline, anneal , lube it up and run it thru the size die. Trim if necessary.

[Pepe Ray]

I've never done a radical resize of a hollow base or nose boolet. I have done enough The rad. resizeing to know one thing. The lead must move. As it is displaced the length must grow. In order to be assured of EVEN displacement you must be sure ALL the grooves are filled with lube before sizing begins. Nose or base cavaties included.
Good luck,
Pepe Ray

[marlinman93]

Yes I'm positive. Went to look at the box and mold before I posted. It's been a couple years since I bought it, and I believe it was a Track of the Wolf. I just checked back there and unfortunately I don't see it listed anymore, nor at Lee's web site. You might contact Lee and see if they still have the cherry to cut one for you?

[Old Time Hunter]

I am heading to Lee mid week, I'll confront him on it. They have not been the congenial people I've known in the past, seems the economy is weighing on them. That or they are getting sick and tired of my odd ball requests. Like my oversize 459-405HB that is really a 461-435HB (wanted it a tad bigger to accomodate the large military rifling of '73...1873 that is) and a .453 sizing die for the .45 LC. Oh well.....now on to a 43 Mauser!

[JustaJeepGuy]

You might contact Lee and see if they still have the cherry to cut one for you?

I don't believe Lee uses "cherries" to cut their bullet molds. They are lathe-cut, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know if it's harder then to re-produce a discontinued mold or not.

[Cast Bullet Hunter]

OTH,

The Lee bullet mentioned above will be found here: http://leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/bro ... ckpow.html It is the new style Minie, and the closest available now is the .450. This is about 100 gr. light but will work. Buy a custom Lee sizer die in .446 and you are set.

A much better bullet, designed specifically for this cartridge, is the RCBS 44-370 FN. This is a special orded mould, but frequently RCBS would have one in stock if you call them. Be sure to get the 44-370, as there is (was?) a standard bullet that is close, but too small, and that is the 43-370 which is for the 11mm Spanish and casts only .439 nominal.

The last time I asked Lee about making a copy of a dis-continued mould the answer I got is that they would make it, but the first mould would be the regular price plus a set-up fee of, then, $100, just the same as making a custom mould. It is cheaper to buy the RCBS Mould, and you will have the right one instead of a poor compromise. FWIW, Lyman never made a proper mould for this cartridge, but the did have a RN 446187 available in several weights, none of which was quite right. That was for the Remington .44-77 which is virtually identical to the 11.15x60R except bullet weight and cartridge base shape/rim thickness.

Don't even think of sizing a .45 bullet this far, it doesn't work. You will end up with a badly distorted bullet with no grease grooves.

If your e-mail address is in your profile I will send you some information on making cases too. .348 will not work for several reasons.

[Old Time Hunter]

Cast Bullet Hunter, thanks a bunch for your input. Checked out the RCBS 44-370FN and the Lyman 446-110 (340gr), both stress that they are for the M71/84 Mauser. That being said, I'd have about $125 into a RCBS mould and about a $100 into the Lyman (w/handles, shipping, and such), if I can convince John Lee to spring an obsolete at $25 that'll be the way to go. Or I can buy prelubed, sized from Buffalo Arms at $30 for 50 which equals $.60 each. That means I could buy over 200 from Buffalo Arms for the price of the RCBS set up, not including the cost of lead. Knowing me, I will probably shoot over 200 rounds if this rifle comes out like I expect, but....I have a bunch more rifles to shoot also. Heck, I only got out once this year so far(and that is out my back door) and flung about 200 rounds out of four rifles and a pistol. Maybe I will go that route and search for a used mould.

[Don McDowell]

I bought my rcbbs 44 -370 from grafs normal price, and as I said before it drops at .446 from 20-1. Lee's 6 cavity handles work fine on Lyman and RCBS molds, and if you drill the holes out work alright with saeco.

[Old Time Hunter]

Thanks Don

[Don McDowell]

You betcha.
Another thing that'ld probably work real well for you , Old West Moulds has a paper patch adjustable mold that drops a .435 dia at the base go from about 475 grs to 600. With 9lb onion skin it patches up to 446, I wrap it with 20 lb cotton paper to get it to .451 for the sharps. Need to wrap some for the Egyptian one of these days.

[marlinman93]

OH- You can get .446" 370 gr. bullets from GAD for $17 per 100.
http://www.gadcustomcartridges.com/

[Old Time Hunter]

Marlinman, that is just up the road a piece....what's wrong with them? That is pretty cheap.

[marlinman93]

I've heard nothing but good about GAD! You'll save shipping if they're up the road and that will make them an even buy!

[Cast Bullet Hunter]

Cast Bullet Hunter, thanks a bunch for your input. Checked out the RCBS 44-370FN and the Lyman 446-110 (340gr), both stress that they are for the M71/84 Mauser. That being said, I'd have about $125 into a RCBS mould and about a $100 into the Lyman (w/handles, shipping, and such), if I can convince John Lee to spring an obsolete at $25 that'll be the way to go. Or I can buy prelubed, sized from Buffalo Arms at $30 for 50 which equals $.60 each. That means I could buy over 200 from Buffalo Arms for the price of the RCBS set up, not including the cost of lead. Knowing me, I will probably shoot over 200 rounds if this rifle comes out like I expect, but....I have a bunch more rifles to shoot also. Heck, I only got out once this year so far(and that is out my back door) and flung about 200 rounds out of four rifles and a pistol. Maybe I will go that route and search for a used mould.

The 446110 is a lousy bullet for this cartridge in spite of what Lyman says. 446109 is even worse. The last I asked Lee about an obsolete mould it was, as said before, $100 set up fee plus the mould. You will be into a poor compromise $125 already, just buy the RCBS and you have the right profile and weight and it shoots good too. If you can get it from Grafs for $50-60 as Don McDowell said all the better.

You mentioned brass before. One question is what do you want to do with it? Is it necessary that all your brass be capable of functioning through the magazine, or would it be acceptable if it was useable as a single shot? There are actually two options.

First option would be soldering a spacer onto the front of the rim and surrounding the outside of the rim of a .45 Basic case, turning the radiussed groove into the head to fit the ejector, full length size, trim to length and fireform. The base is a little small, but with this low pressure cartridge isn't a problem. These can be made to function through the magazine, but the cost of making the rings for the rim cost will be just as high, or higher than the Bertram.

A second option, for shooting cases that will not function through the magazine, is based on the .458 Winchester Magnum. This is done by turning the belt off the case body without altering the rim. A snap ring is installed in the rim under-cut to make the rim thick enough for correct headspace, full length size, trim and load. The body of the .458 is already correct for the Mauser.

For the second option the snap rings you need are a Ramsey Corp. Spir-Olox (their spelling) #RS-50 or equivalent. This ring is flat and makes two full turns so it leaves no gaps around the rim. Dimensions are OD .545, ID .460, Thickness .025. There is a special tool to install these, and it is necessary to avoid damaging the ring or the case. You should be able to find these at a bearing supply house, mine came from Kaman Bearing. These run through a correct shellholder for the 11.15x60R just like they are supposed to. This can be used on the .45 Basic case too for a lot less trouble than soldering a cupped spacer onto them. You will still need to turn the radiussed groove into the case head, unless your ejector has been modified.

Its has been 45 years I have had my 71/84. At that time I had no idea where to buy brass or ammunition for it. As a matter of fact, it was bought as a project gun and I intended to re-barrel it to .45-70. I'm glad that didn't happen. I don't recall he shape of the bolt face, but I believe it had a radiussed ring aroung the outside of the face to match the Mauser "A" Base case, as did the ejector. The bolt face was opened to make it flat with a relatively square periphery, and the round area in the front of the ejector cut out square too so it will use flat based cases or originals. While working for RCBS I discovered they had CIL 11mm ammunition and I bought two boxes. Since then I have bought what I found at gunshows (probably haven't seen any for 25 years!) and have around 50 or a few more. I use these when I want the ammunition to function through the magazine.

[Old Time Hunter]

Thanks Cast Bullet Hunter. Actually when I purchased this rifle my intentions were to re-line the barrel if there was any bore degradation and reline for a .45-70. I thought that it would be possible to cut the ejector and bolt face to a .608 flat diameter, then mill the lip back just far enough to attain rim sealing against the rear of the new chamber (which is part of the new liner). But after receiving the rifle and finding a pristine barrel (except the last inch or so in front of the chamber, which I honed out the rough spot while retaining proper throat diameter...still have rifling though) I have decided to keep it in the original chambering. I've heard of utilizing .45-90 cartridges, but doesn't it make more sense to use .44-77 Sharps? Or should I just bite the bullet (literally) and purchase the Bertram cartridges at 20 for $40.00?

This project is getting more interesting as I go.

[Don McDowell]

OTH the 44-77 cases have the basic 50 caliber base. So be sure of your measurements before you buy spendy cases. Huntingtons carries 44 basic brass while not cheap its not excessive and with bp loads should last for about ever.