OT - Could use a prayer or two...

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:19 pm

...I imagine I'm not alone either. The company I work for announced today some restructuring due to the current economic crisis and our plans to accelerate the transformation of the company. Net result, we're cutting 11% of the full-time workforce, which translates into about 5,000 jobs. We're closing 20 plants permanently, and idling another 180 plants. We're also cutting 6,000 contractor jobs. Promotions and awards were frozen earlier this year; no base pay increases or bonuses for 2009. I'm alright so far, but more waves may and probably will come. One of my peers did get let go (and I am getting some of her responsibilities).

Lots of sad people going into the holidays - and that's just one company. Over half a million people lost jobs last month. Highest job loss in a single month in 34 years. I heard from my largest customer today that they will be making their announcement tomorrow on another round of job cuts - and they've already been through two waves.

Please take a moment to say a prayer or two for all those who have lost or are losing their jobs, and those who are uncertain about the future.

Thanks!

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:21 pm

Will do YK...sorry to hear that and thank you for the reminder!

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:21 pm

Tough times.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:01 am

Yep, lots of folks could use a prayer about now. My brother and his wife are on the edge of loosing their jobs as well. Thankfully my job and my wife's are secure, though my wife has lost some hours, and my work has not been busy.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:18 am

Thank God, the utility work seems steady........

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:11 am

Yup it's tougher times ahead yet.Glad I work in a hospital.Realistically no job is solid nor secure.Just be the ant and not the grasshopper.

Mutt · Post by **Mutt** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:17 am

Done Sir, ................Mutt

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:53 am

Tough times over here too! Prayers for all on hard times, I hope better days are not too far off.

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:42 am

Its very sad to hear this...prayers sent
But, I think it will continue for quite a while...
I work in the architecture and construction business...
This type of work is very close to the top of the food chain
as far as economy goes...If we're not busy...
renovating structures, building new offices, stores, malls...
building homes, condos etc...any type of construction.....
this means the economy is in trouble...

I just talked to my engineer in west virginia
he works for one of the largest developers in the country
that builds warehouses all over the place....
They have just revealed they will not be building any
warehouses anywhere next year....zero....
it real hard for anyone to get financing even with
a good track record.....
I will probably be canned in July or sooner,
once all the construction administration is done for this building
we are doing in Atlanta....
oh well....
You can all thank the liberals that forced the banks to
loan money to a bunch of people who had no business
getting the loans in the first place.....

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:42 am

Prayers sent.

If there is ANY way y'all can bank a couple of years mortgage and taxes, do it.

I got another one of those 0% for a year with a 3% one time fee offers from my bank. I can get 5% return at another bank in a checking account that can pay back the first bank. I'd rather screw up my credit than lose my house. If TEOTWATKI happens the first thing people will let go is revolving credit......

Another thing the big banks are doing is lowering our credit lines on existing accounts in order to screw our credit ratings. If you have $x.xx balance on a revolving credit and your max credit is three times $x.xx your credit score benefits greatly. If you have $x.xx balance and $x.xx is your max, your credit score really gets tanked. We had two lenders drop our max credit limit to $x.xx and our credit score was 860 before they did it. One of those also raised our interest to 23% from 5.99%. No missed payments, 860 credit score.

Act fast if you're gonna act boys.

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:36 am

On the list . . .

Pardon my cynicism, but maybe some of those bailed-out bank and financial firm employees who are still employed can offer a prayer or two . . .

This whole <selective> bailout thing ticks me off.

Don't get me started.

Noah

RSY · Post by **RSY** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:39 am

Prayers sent. I, myself, am on the ropes, too. Can hardly sleep at night worrying about my little family. On top of that, my brother works for a high-tech manufacturing company here and they are expecting big cuts next Monday. He's pretty sure he's in the crosshairs.

Scott

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:48 am

Prayers up Kid.

I know the economic situation isn't all that good but I firmly believe that some of the problem is the hype presented by the various news services. Most of the news commentators have no idea what they are saying when it comes to the economy and they just repeat what is on the news wires. Politics and everything aside, the FOX Business Channel is a good news servie to watch. If you watch/listen to them you can get an idea as to what is really going on.

Tycer made some good observations about credit lines and what the banks/financial institutions are doing to your credit scores. It is something to definitely keep your eye on.

Like said above, try to keep at least a years salary in savings. If you can't manage that much keep as much as possible.

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:10 am

Done!!

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:03 pm

prayers sent, keep us informed. blessings

deerwhacker444 · Post by **deerwhacker444** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:18 pm

I keep a small copy of this in my wallet. Sometimes when the going gets tough or I feel down I read thru it. It usually helps me refocus.

Matthew 6:25-34

25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?

28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:06 pm

Thanks deerwhacker that was lovely and very timely for my wife whome I read it too

Yep, I recon we will all be eating rabbit instead of steak soon. I wish us all good luck and I suggest some long hard thought into self suficiency.

Gods speed

Nath.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:18 pm

Prayers for all in these hard times.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:03 pm

Done.

Kid, God forbid if you do get caught in this, do you have alternatives? What kind of work do you do Sir?

I fear that we are just seeing the beginning of a much much worse situation.

And it all goes back several years to the Dems forcing the banks to lower their loan standards and giving them a way to sell these high risk loans - to Fanny and Freddie. Chris Dodd and Barney Frank taking sweatheart deals from Countrywide who profited tremendously in the short term from this...

Not saying that this is the only cause, but it sure was the trigger. Of that I have no doubt.

Yet Chris and Barney remain unscathed and they will have jobs regardless...

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:17 pm

We had to lay a guy off indeffinately a couple weeks ago. Somehow I got the job of telling the poor guy.
I think the boss wanted to see how I'd handle it.
Not the first time but it sure sucked.

It's easier when you have to let someone go due to poor performance or they did something bad. This poor bugger just was lacking enough skills to do more than one task and not enough work for him to do just that one thing.

We're fairly resistant to recession in the restoration business. Fires and floods have little interest in the economy. However it seems that the insurance companies get tighter with the checkbooks when the economy is slow.

jb

Thunder50 · Post by **Thunder50** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:32 pm

In the oil and gas business here (Geologist), needless to say that people are still going to drive, just not as much. My job reflects things also, I didn't get let go, but I lost about 70% of my income. Its gonna hurt, big time, but at least I have some coming in, unlike others, who have none. Been thru 4 busts so far, survived those barely and will survive this one I guess. No other choice. Have a family to take care of.

Prayers sent for others who have it worse. Hope it gets better soon.

Hillbilly · Post by **Hillbilly** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:17 pm

Dow had been a little wobbly the last few years. Hope ya come out the other side without a mark Kid.
this next year or two may get ugly
Hill

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:25 pm

Guys, I think, given everything that I've seen that it will take nothing short of a miracle to keep us out of a major depression. I'm no expert, just going by what I'm seeing.

The fed just can't keep throwing money that it doesn't have at companys trying to save jobs. Eventually, we will have to see inflation if they keep it up and there doesn't seem to be any end. Inflation has the same effect as a drop in consumer spending.

Even if they don't, the number of companies filing chapter 11 and laying off will cause a huge increase in unemployment and that will cause a drop in consumer spending.... and the spiral goes until something happens to stop it.

I'm in the food business and on the foodservice side specfically and get daily credit industry reports. The number of large restaurant chains that are going under is attrocious - and they are like any business - the sum of the effect of their going under goes way beyond their employees - affects all of their suppliers too.

Now, this works both ways - both up and down.

That is why its important for those with money to invest back into the market. Why its important not to tax them to death.

The free market needs to breath.

Sorry - I got off on a little rant here

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:43 pm

O.S.O.K. wrote:Guys, I think, given everything that I've seen that it will take nothing short of a miracle to keep us out of a major depression. I'm not expert, just going by what I'm seeing.

I agree. My financial advisor agrees. My accountant agrees. My local banker agrees. A depression equal to or greater than 1929+ is on the way and the world's economists can't act fast enough to stop it.

Having personal debt is not a horrible thing unless you have no cash. If you own your home, make sure you have the money to pay the taxes and insurance on it. Expect taxes and insurance to go way up.

O.S.O.K. wrote:That is why its important for those with money to invest back into the market.:

I hope you mean local markets. The Dow, S&P and others are not at the bottom yet. I'll stay out until my advisor tells me to move. Bonds, annuities and insurance for now. I'll wager the Dow goes below 3500.

1886 · Post by **1886** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:56 pm

You got it bro. My co. is laying off as well. Sure feel bad for those folks. I am not sure what I would do.? 1886.

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:10 pm

Lost my job last September.
Things are looking poor for commercial construction for the foreseeable future.
I'm on unemployment - I'm out of savings and will be resorting to telling my mortgage company and others that we either eat, or pay them.
Guess I'll be fending off the repo man soon.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:26 pm

Thunder50 wrote:In the oil and gas business here (Geologist), needless to say that people are still going to drive, just not as much. My job reflects things also, I didn't get let go, but I lost about 70% of my income. Its gonna hurt, big time, but at least I have some coming in, unlike others, who have none. Been thru 4 busts so far, survived those barely and will survive this one I guess. No other choice. Have a family to take care of.

Prayers sent for others who have it worse. Hope it gets better soon.

Pretty much same here; in the past 20 years I've survived 3 'busts' where I had to go 9 months without any paycheck at all. You can eat alot of rice and beans and tomatos if you have to. Still managed to pay (with home equity loan) health insurance, and still had a job (even if it meant working 60 hours a week for free

) so hard to complain vs. those who lose jobs, have crappy jobs (I like mine as if it is a calling of sorts), have bad marriages, bad health problems, etc. Eventually, God must have gotten over being mad at me or testing me or whatever, because things got better.

If you have spare time because of a layoff, take the time to read "Atlas Shrugged" and you'll realize it's been forseen for half a century. It makes today's events less surreal to realize a novelist wrote them all down in the 1940's or whenever.

Times like these are when the 'investment' in FAMILY and FRIENDS give big returns, and you realize the dollar stuff isn't quite as important as you thought. (Still nice to have them too when you can get hold of some; I'll not deny that. But if you've worked hard for them, never feel guilty for the moments they give of temporary 'luxury' be it a new levergun, or whatever.)

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:28 pm

Tycer, yes, I mean that people with money need to invest in new businesses, hiring people, creating new jobs.

I would include investing and depositing in interest bearing accounts but I think that's too much to expect of anybody right now...

Guess what I'm trying to say is that I hope we don't do all the wrong things - like FDR did in the 30's. I really believe that his actions slowed the economic recovery. Fortunately for the country, he was also a charasmatic leader and kept people's expectations up...

Sorry to push the thread off-topic.

Sending another one up for all that are seeing hard times...

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:15 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
Thunder50 wrote: If you have spare time because of a layoff, take the time to read "Atlas Shrugged" and you'll realize it's been forseen for half a century. It makes today's events less surreal to realize a novelist wrote them all down in the 1940's or whenever.

So, who and where is John Galt?

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:18 pm

John Galt is the heroic main character in Ayn Rand's novel Atlas Shrugged. ...

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:37 pm

O.S.O.K. wrote:John Galt is the heroic main character in Ayn Rand's novel Atlas Shrugged. ...

Right, but who is he and where is he today? I want to join him.

Bogie35 · Post by **Bogie35** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:31 pm

Will do my friend.

Sincerely,
bogie

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:41 pm

Hillbilly wrote:Dow had been a little wobbly the last few years. Hope ya come out the other side without a mark Kid.
this next year or two may get ugly
Hill

Nailed it!

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:49 pm

O.S.O.K. wrote:Done.

Kid, God forbid if you do get caught in this, do you have alternatives? What kind of work do you do Sir?

I fear that we are just seeing the beginning of a much much worse situation.

And it all goes back several years to the Dems forcing the banks to lower their loan standards and giving them a way to sell these high risk loans - to Fanny and Freddie. Chris Dodd and Barney Frank taking sweatheart deals from Countrywide who profited tremendously in the short term from this...

Not saying that this is the only cause, but it sure was the trigger. Of that I have no doubt.

Yet Chris and Barney remain unscathed and they will have jobs regardless...

I am in chemical sales. The industry I support is the building materials industry, so needless to say, they are hurting. The housing market is over 50% down from it's peak in late 2005/1Q06. At that point they were building 2 million homes per year; now it is less than a million. We've seen this adjustment before. What we haven't seen, at this level, is the forclosures. Yes, it is SQUARELY the fault of the Democrats, and it burns me up knowing not only did they get away with it - but they got rewarded for it. Like Tycer, I think a full-blown depression is heading our way. Heck, it is looking like a repeat of 1929 right now. The market is crashing. You have a quasi-conservative Republican President in office doing almost all the wrong things economically. His medling will be nothing compared to that of his Democrat replacement. Just like FDR, Obama doesn't care if his policies fix anything - in fact, he wants the opposite. The Dem's see this as a golden opportunity to pass more socialism and strengthen the power of the central government - and their party. FDR and the New Deal got them uninterrupted control of the House for 40 years - and the Senate for most of that time. Obama is going to try to do the same.

Rant off!

I've been with this company ever since graduating from college - 20 years now. I could probably do other things - heck, I know I could and would to feed my family. However, my greatest worth to the market is my exprience - as with most folks - and it would be tough finding anyone willing to pay for it right now. Not much I can do but work hard, do my best, and make smart decisions. We don't have any debt but the house. Need to work on building up the cash reserves though...

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:51 pm

homefront wrote:Lost my job last September.
Things are looking poor for commercial construction for the foreseeable future.
I'm on unemployment - I'm out of savings and will be resorting to telling my mortgage company and others that we either eat, or pay them.
Guess I'll be fending off the repo man soon.

homefront - I'm praying for you - as I have been. I know the last couple of years has been awful. I'm really sorry to hear this added to your plate...

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:30 am

Jay, honestly, there are men here I wish to God I could meet and be personal friends with. You and the others have been so helpful and supportive I can't put into words the good it has done me in my heart. My wife feels the same way.
God bless you all.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:52 am

Sales. I think that's good. I'm in sales too. If things do go sour, you will have other avenues. Probably not at the same compensation level, but there will be opportunities.

Lets continue to pray that this doesn't come to pass. And for those who are looking at this right now.

This gives me an idea...

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:14 am

I just found out last night that our neighbor had lost his job. He worked for a paving company.
It all came up when my wife asked one of their boys what had happened to one of their vehicles thinking that it was being worked on again. Very softly he told her that it had been reposessed.

It's getting ugly out there.

jb

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:17 am

Yes, it is ugly out there, but things are always darkest before the dawn. The U.S. traditionally leads the world into recession, and then leads it out as well. My advisor at E.D. Jones says their best guess is hitting bottom in the second quarter of 2009, and recovery beginning shortly thereafter. Let's not lose our heads to doom and gloom, but remember that economies are prone to contract and expand. We have a new crop of leaders bringing different approaches to the problem in just a few weeks. The economy is just like life: If you think it is supposed to just keep getting better, you have learned little. Accidents happen, illness casts dark shadows. Close friends and loved ones get sick and die. Our eyes and backs go bad. None of us goes on forever. Life is not a bowl of cherries, nor a bowl of pits. The human experience is a series of triumphs and trials that tests our mettle and our faith. Go back to Matthew 6:25 .... and God bless all on this forum and give us faith that we are survivors in grace.

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:24 am

I went through a similar situation during the "Carter years", got laid off for a few months. Luckily, I was rehired with no loss in senority and plowed on for 25 more years. I will pray that you keep working, and if, God forbid, you do get bumped, that you will find a better position elsewhere in the industry.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:02 pm

O.S.O.K. wrote:That is why its important for those with money to invest back into the market. Why its important not to tax them to death.

And it's darned important not to beotch and COMPLAIN about those that do have money and those that make the big salaries. They have the money because they worked hard for it and as a rule they make the big money because they MAKE MONEY for their companies and the share holders.

I don't care how much money the boss makes as long as my salary is decent and I can't get a decent salary if the company/boss isn't making money.

Like the saying goes, "I never got a job from a poor man".

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:27 pm

O.S.O.K. wrote:Sales. I think that's good.

The guy that trained me and almost every other sales person in the last generation for the company is found of saying that a man (or woman) who knows how to sell - really how to sell - will never go hungry. True professional salespeople are few and far between. I certainly hope he's right!

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:31 pm

Modoc ED wrote: Like the saying goes, "I never got a job from a poor man".

A big +1! Poor people don't create job, except in the service of themselves through welfare like programs at all levels of government that must sieze income from those actually working. "Rich" people creates tons of jobs - through their direct enterprise and also their consumption. I've never had a rich person demand more of my taxes to supplement or entirely pay for his or her life (I know - some will debate this through corporate welfare issues); however, EVERY poor person taking money from the government does so at my expense.

Knocking down the rich doesn't help the poor - it just spreads the misery. Class envy is unAmerican...