44-40 revisited

[Wes]

Alright, I already talked about my Cimarron 92 and it's lack of accuracy. As was told me by some of you folks, I slugged the barrel and it does measure .429 like we kind of thought it would. Just for kicks I slugged the bore on my Ruger Redhawk and it was the same as this rifle.
Being new to this caliber, shouldn't it be alright to load the same bullets as my Redhawk (caliber wise)?
I'm heading out to my reloading shack right now and was going to try a few 200 grain XTP's along with a few 240 grain Lasercast lead bullets.
It's no wonder this rifle didn't like the .427 loads I tried before. I do have a few of the Remington 200 JSP's to try but they mic'd .426 so I don't hold out much hope for them.

[Lefty Dude]

Load a few bullets with the .429 in the 44-40 cases and see if they will chamber. You may need to use Winchester brass if what you are loading is tight when you attempt to close the bolt. Winchester brass has the thinnest neck of all 44-40 brass. This would also allow you possibly to use ,430" lead bullets.

44-40 can be a challenge reloading till you find out what the particular firearm needs are, then you are good to go, so to speak.

With that .429" bore groove diameter, stay away from those under sized bullets. They were made for the original Winchester's which had sometimes bore grooves as small as .425".

[KirkD]

My original Winchester Model 1892, made in 1914, slugs at a groove diameter of .429. I've shot .427 hard cast in it and the accuracy is so-so ( five-shot groups of 3 to 4 inches at 100 yards). .429 gives me better accuracy (2" with toilet paper filler), but the fact that toilet paper filler improves accuracy tells me I should really go to .430. I do not know if .430 will chamber or not, though. I will be working with this rifle over the next summer, as well as purchasing my own mould. I have no problems at all chambering a .429 bullet in my original 44-40 using Winchester brass.

[Mike D.]

The oversized original bore on the little .44 WCF '92 that I received from you has given me fits, Kirk. I'm going to try some 180 and 200 grain .429 XTPs that are designed for the .44 Mag in order to do some pig slaying here in CA. Lead is verbotten for us, at least down in Condor Country.

[KirkD]

Mike, 200 grain .429 XTP's should do very well in that carbine. If I recall correctly, it slugged at a groove diameter of .429. At the time I owned that little carbine, I only had cast .427 bullets which bumped up nicely. Not being able to use lead is a real problem in CA. Keep me posted on how the .429 XTP's do. They should be very accurate given their close match to the groove diameter. I wonder if the XTP bullets have the crimping groove in the proper place for a 44-40. Perhaps a Lee Factory Crimp will be necessary to crimp them to the proper O.A.L.

[Wes]

I walked over to my bench and shot the reloads.

240gr swc lasercast over 6.5 gr unique Rem 2 1/2 primer. 4.5" shot group (yuck!).

200 gr XTP over 14.0 gr 2400, Rem 2 1/2 primer. 1.6" five shot group!

Both groups were shot at 40 yards from a bench on rolled up coats and gloves (mules ate my rice bags the other day!). It's about 35 degrees and little wind.

The other day I had feeding problems with this gun. The round that won't feed in it is the Remington factory 200JSP. They mic out at 1.578 OAL.

The 200 gr XTP reloads are 1.602, give or take, and feed well.

I crimped them at the top edge of the cannelure with my Lee seating die as a separate step from the actual seating. I put as much crimp as I dared (which ain't a lot due to the thin brass) trying to help get all the 2400 burned.

Looks like the 200XTP with 2400 will be worth tinkering with some more. 14 grains seems very mild, looking at primers. Does anyone else use it in this cartrige and if so, where do you consider the top end to be?

[Lefty Dude]

You can not expect lead load accuracy if you shoot jacketed and then lead with out first cleaning the jacketed fouling from the barrel. All of the jacket fouling must be clean from the bore. I mean squeeky clean. Once I start shooting lead in my rifles I never shoot jacketed again. If I do I must throughly clean the bore and start again. When the patches come out clean you are there, and not a hint of green or gray stain on the patch.
Many shooter get very discouraged shooting lead from a dirty bore rifle. Once you get that bore clean you will be pleased with the accuracy results. Depending on the age of the rifle this cleaning may take awhile. J.B. bore paste helps.

For additional information on shoot and loading Cast bullets for rifles, refer to the Lyman Cast Bullet Manual.

BTW; my load for that 240 gr. Laser cast SWC is 6.7 gr. of unique and it clover leafs at 50 yds. It is my CAS long range match load for 200 yards. It rings steel on a 16" gong using X sticks. That load has won several contest against Marlin 94's & Winchester's with 24" barrels. The shooters are quite surprised when they get beat by a little Rossi 92 20" carbine 44-40.

[Wes]

Great tip Lefty Dude. I don't have a great deal of experience with lead bullets in a rifle and my first guess would have been that the rifle didn't like that bullet weight or the powder. I'll give it a try this afternoon and let you know the result.

[Lefty Dude]

Great tip Lefty Dude. I don't have a great deal of experience with lead bullets in a rifle and my first guess would have been that the rifle didn't like that bullet weight or the powder. I'll give it a try this afternoon and let you know the result.

It may take longer than this afternoon to get it clean.

A friend of mine has a Winchester 94 30-30 made in 1900. He said it would not shoot lead. It took me a week of soaking & cleaning to get that bore clean. Now it shoots a 1 1/2" group at 200 yards. I have a new Winchester 94 Legacy in 30-30 with a 26" octagon barrel. That old 94 is also an octagon 26" barrel and it out shoots my new piece. by an 1 1/2".

Good luck, your cleaning efforts will be of benefit, and you will be pleased with the results.

[JerryB]

Wes, I was having accuracy trouble with my ol '92 32wcf. Kirk told me to use 0000 steelwool on a bore brush or swab and scrubb hard. I used a couple of pads of steelwool from a sack. It took a while but it sure did make a big difference in the bore, when I first started the wool looked like it was pure lead, then finally came clean and shot like new again. Just peel a couple of inches rfom the pad and wrap it around the brush and start scrubbing.

[Lefty Dude]

Wes, I was having accuracy trouble with my ol '92 32wcf. Kirk told me to use 0000 steelwool on a bore brush or swab and scrubb hard. I used a couple of pads of steelwool from a sack. It took a while but it sure did make a big difference in the bore, when I first started the wool looked like it was pure lead, then finally came clean and shot like new again. Just peel a couple of inches rfom the pad and wrap it around the brush and start scrubbing.

I'll use the steel wool on an older rifle that has a little pitting in the bore and where I need to be more agressive.. A better choice is a copper choreboy thats used for scrubing pots & pans. Make sure you get the 100% copper, some are stainless steel. With the copper scrubber, you remove a little and place it on a bronze brush. If it is real bad I will use a bronze tornado brush.

[Wes]

I had to go move some cows around this afternoon, so didn't get around to trying the lead loads yet. I'll keep you posted. It would b nice if they work.
I'll try the steel wool trick out on a pistol that my neighbor has that its really full of lead. He shot some cheap 357 mag lead loads and it looks bad down that barrel. Thanks for the input you guys.

[w30wcf]

I do have a few of the Remington 200 JSP's to try but they mic'd .426 so I don't hold out much hope for them.

Wes,
My .44-40 Marlin rifle has a groove diameter of .428". I was testing some replication W.H.V. loads with 4227 and I tried both the .429" Speer 200 gr. h.p.jacketed and Winchester .426" diameter jacketed bullets. Surprisingly, the .426" jacketed bullets shot a smaller 5 shot group at 50 yards (1").

Possibly you just might find that your Rem. .426" jacketed bullets may shoot aok.

I have an original '73 Winchester with an oversized barrel (groove diameter .433"). Although I shoot mostly .435" diameter cast bullets in in that rifle, I have found that the Hornady 200 gr. XTP .430" diameter shoots just fine in it.

Good luck,
w30wcf