Open sights - maximum comfortable distance?

[Triggernosis]

Just curious as to what other's maximum comfortable distance using open sights on deer is.
Mine is, realistically, about 150 yards. If it's within that range, it's likely dead if I pull the trigger. At 200 I'm really "hoping for the best". Beyond 200, I really should be using a scope.

What's y'all's open sights distance?

[rjohns94]

When I shot M-1As in competition and hunted in Virginia with the same, I shot to 1000 yards on the range, and I felt comfortable to 300 yards on deer. Friend of mine shot two does with one shot with his M-1a at just over 300 yards. Now, I like em up close and personal, but I am comfortable with the sights I have to 150 yards on my 30-30, 125 with my .357, and mavbe 300+ yards with my sharps. The areas I hunt though would rarely offer such a shot, most coming well under 50 yards.

[rost495]

If this is a wide open question, IE my choice of gun and correct iron sights, lets just say its pretty easy to stay with 6 inch or so groups at 600 and my longest iron sight deer was just over 550 yards.

With the correct but hard to use sights on my 1892, I"m not sure yet.... 100 might be pushing it.

I have a 54 MZ side hammer with irons that is an easy 200 yard gun for elk, and the only issue past that is the 565 grain conical drops so much its hard to account for after that.

But it takes practice to be good with irons. Once you figure it out, most of my iron groups aren't much bigger than my scope groups on general non BR rifles.

Jeff

[Old Savage]

Probably should be qualified by "if you don't know the distance.".

[Tycer]

I'm right with you at my current ability and practice level. With proper practice, I'm sure I could shoot much longer distances.

[jnyork]

So, are we talking open sights here, or iron sights in general? M1A's dont have open sights.

Not trying to be a smart alec here, but it does make a difference in the discussion. I have a couple of rifle that still have the open sights on them and the sights will just about cover up a deer at 100 yards, making accurate shooting very difficult indeed. With a tang or receiver sight, whole different story.

Here is a really good article on iron sights that goes into detail on the differences, best article I have found on the subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_sights

[Hobie]

I feel a lot more comfortable a lot further out trying to cause damage than trying to make humane kills. Peep sights at 150 yards is about my limit nowadays.

[O.S.O.K.]

If I have a steady rest and am using a smaller peep like I've got installed on my 94 30-30AI, then I'm very comforable with 200 or even 250 yards - if the buck is presenting a broadside target.

I can sit down with my AK's and hit an 8" circle all day at 200 yards - and their sights are pretty coarse.

My levers with big apertures are 150 or closer though - just too much chance for sighting error.

[AJMD429]

Probably should be qualified by "if you don't know the distance.".

...and the WIND.

Given bullet drift, most rounds' rate of drop when out there past 300 yards, and that most ranges where I could see a deer past a couple hundred yards I'd not know distance that accurately (can anyone really tell 360 yards vs. 410 yards under field conditions?), I'd not shoot at anything I wanted an instant, humane kill on past 300 yards with anything, scoped or not. Also, the fact that if the deer happens to jump just after you pull the trigger, when you're talking more than a couple tenths of a second travel time, even an expert shot will hit exactly where he or she aimed - but that space will then be occupied by intestine rather than heart.

Sedate one so it wouldn't jump, place it at a specific known distance, and things would change; most on this forum can likely shoot 1 MOA easily from a rest with a good gun/sights, and 2 MOA under field conditions, so the vital zone of a deer in that case would be hittable out to maybe 800 yards if you know your trajectory.

But the question was open sights, and 'comfortable' distance - for me that would be maybe 100 yards or less with normal field conditions (brown deer against brown and tan and black grass and underbrush) if the light was good. A scope might double to triple that.

I may just be 'chicken' or a not experienced enough marksman, but a wounded animal or inhumane kill really bothers me, even though I know coyotes, cars, and wild dogs are far less 'humane' than any gut-shot would be most of the time.

[donw]

+- one hundred yards...

[Triggernosis]

I was kinda thinking open sights, which would be more commonly found on leverguns that are used in hunting situations.

[Old Ironsights]

Depends on what I'm shooting at.

If it's 2-legged? 300yds with a spitzer/boattail/military caliber or 200yds with the .45-70

Game animals, 200yds with a spitzer, 150yds with the .45-70 and 100yds with the .357

[TedH]

With my leverguns and peeps, I'm comfortable with 100 yards.

[GANJIRO]

Longest shot with my 44 mag Marlin with peep was 125 yards at a boar.
Longest shot with my 357 mag Rossi with peep was 150 yards at a billy.
Longest shot with my 1903 Springfield with peep was 200 yards at a 8" steel gong hitting it consistently 20 rounds in a row.

I guess it depends on the rifle, sight, and round but I won't shoot at game farther than 200 yards without a scope.

[dr walker]

I am comfortable with 100 yds plus or minus 25 yds. If I had a stationary deer and a good rest I could possibly push it to 200 yds. Its just at 200 yds they look so small and the front site looks so huge.

[AJMD429]

Depends on what I'm shooting at.

If it's 2-legged? 300yds with a spitzer/boattail/military caliber or 200yds with the .45-70

Game animals, 200yds with a spitzer, 150yds with the .45-70 and 100yds with the .357

I've never hunted birds with a rifle...

[Buffboy]

Well, while I haven't got a deer yet this season with it, a coyote at about 185 yards, stopped to look at me and had its day ruined by my 1893 38-55. If a deer's not running, less than 250yards, gives me even a couple seconds, and the wind is not blowing over 10mph, I'll kill it.

Unfortunately the deer that have presented themselves so far have been less than cooperative with that plan.

[Lastmohecken]

I am really surprised that no one has mentioned available light. The biggest factor for me is light, when iron sights are used. In bright sunlight in the open, with the right iron sighted weapon, I would feel pretty confortable at close to 300yds, but put that deer in shadows, or at dusk, and I might be challenged at 50yds, espacally in dark timber, and that is the main advantage a scope sight gives you, during those times.

So, all I can say is, how far I might shoot with irons depends on the available light, and maybe just a little bit on the state of my blood pressure at the time.

[marlinman93]

With me it really depends on the sights. I've got guns that I wont use to over 100 yds. since the sights don't give me a good picture. I've also got some that I've taken out to 200 yds, and still kept the groups in a 4"-5" group. That's accurate enough that I didn't hesitate to take a good buck with that gun when he offered me a 160 yd. shot a couple years ago.

[blackhawk44]

A good receiver sight helps a lot, but if you add a blade front with a white center stripe (XS) things really perk up. The blade gives so much better definition to elevation and windage that your confidence factor is surprising. Two hundred yards becomes not trick at all.

[Bogie35]

I printed a 2" group at 1,000,000 yards with the factory sights on my Marlin 336. I could've done better in the day time, and if it weren't for the hurricane.

bogie

[pharmseller]

I shot this mulie last year with my Browning model 71 at 123 lasered yards.



The Browning has factory sights - gold bead front sight and semi buckhorn rear. The front sight covered the entire front shoulder from ribcage forward about a third of the way up the neck. I use the middle of the bead as the impact point, which limits my distance. Some shooters use the top of the front sight. I was comfortable shooting at this distance because of range time. Much farther, however, would go beyond my "confidence zone."

P

[El Chivo]

I am comfortable out to 150 yards. I don't see much advantage to a scope except for quickness.

I like the Lyman globes and have some special crosshair inserts. The aperture inserts are good for long distance, your target gets centered inside it. This is with a tang sight, set for distance. I might prefer that to a scope where you have to estimate the bullet drop. But, that kind of setup is a little long to get on target. Fine for the range, and maybe for hunting from a stand at known distances.

[rost495]

Folks have mentioned some things here. First it took me many years to where I could trust irons way out there. 300 yards with the right sight and conditions is really a chip shot.

But you have to understand that I've shot hundreds of thousands of rounds in competition to get good.

Distance you have rangefinders for. Wind you have all kinds of indicators as long as you have glass to look through for them as the shots lengthen. My iron sight competition was first round no sighters has to count and you get very good at understanding the wind. Plus there are digital wind speed meters that are very accurate these days to help.

As to time of flight, that gets brought up but then folks are fine with pistol and muzzle loaders and bow hunters and that cancels time of flight IMHO. Not that it doesnt' matter but a few tenths can kill you with many weapons, its up to the shooter to judge each case. And like I say about long range shots, I always have the option to walk away. Bottom line whether its 25 yards or 1000, I won't shoot unless I'm 200+ percent confident in the shot.

Folks have made comments on target size vs front sights... IF you get comfortable and have a good sight set, the size doesn't matter. My front sight at 600 yards with my AR15 covers at least 36 inches of width, sometimes more depending on what gun I"m using, and I can consisitently shoot groups on the order of 6 inches or so. I can favor with the sight, IE hold off to one side or the other as the wind changes and still hit center. Its the relationship that matters.
Its the reason I don't use glow sights or round sights, only flat top square or rectangle type front sights, well blackened and dull. And I tend to zero in so that at my expected range I only touch the bottom of the animal, and the bullet hits about 8 inches higher than that. ITs a much better reference than blocking the animal out.

The best thing about the body, is that without centering marks or lines etc... the eye tends to center all things up concentricly on its own which helps us greatly.

Now to add to this, I am rated very high with iron sights, that means that out to 1000 yards I am high master in my sport, 97% plus of my shots hit inside the 10 ring from all positions, standing, sitting, prone, and slow or rapid fire. When I first started in 89 I could miss the whole target. And moved forward to become much better. And with better also comes mental stability which increases your talent. If you know you can, then you can. I also have trained so much that when connected to a lazer test system at AMU Ft Benning GA from positions only, but with sling support, my wobble area is less than 0.25 moa. Thats without a benchrest. So if you WANT to, you can learn HOW to.

My personal thoughts when we get to slamming an article like this, its not most of us, but the weekend walmart warriors that are the most dangerous out there to the animals, misses and wounds at ridiculously close ranges. Plus they don't care, they are going to shoot, with that mentalitiy, can't kill it if you don't shoot at it.
Boils down to personal responsibility, regardless that we just elected a government that wants folks to rely on it and not themselves.

With the irons I have on my new to me 1892, I'm betting I won't be comfortable past 100 yards if that. But let me adjust the shape of the front sight a bit, and put a reciever rear on.... wow that really opens it up. Such that 200 becomes oh so easy if you desire.

Jeff

[WCF3030]

I shot my H&R 30-30 with Willams peep sight several times from the cross legged position resting off a small apple at 225yds shooting my 173gr cast and managed to get get all my shots into a paper plate.
It can be done with some efoort.
I would not hesitate to take that shot.
Although most of my shots are under 50yds for game, and I tend to use my scout scope.

[86er]

I base the distance I will shoot on the size of the front sight or bead. If the sight covers more than three-quarters of the vital zone the animal is too far. If the sight covers less, I can put the bullet where it needs to go. In some cases where some hold over is required, like a 30-30 dead on at 100 yds and the animal is 200 yds, it again depends on how much of the front sight I can get surely in relation to the vital zone. The second factor is always the terminal ballistics of the cartridge. I may be able to hit an elk at 300 yards with open sights, but with most levergun cartridges I won't take the shot due to the shortness of energy. Lastly, the cartridge to animal consideration. I could probably hit a bison at 300 yds with the right sights and set-up. I might take the shot with the appropriate cartridge, but even if I am sure I can hit it I'm not going to try it with an insufficient cartridge. So for me, the fact that I have open sights without any other factors doesn't really make my comfortable distance more or less than if I had a scope. The size of the front sight, trajectory and power level determine the distance I am comfortable shooting.