OT: It's coming home ....... Yehawwww

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J Miller
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OT: It's coming home ....... Yehawwww

Post by J Miller »

It's coming home to me ....... it's a long time coming.

On March 15th, 1975 I bought my first center fire revolver. It was an Iver Johnson’s, Uberti made Cattleman revolver, Model C45, caliber .45 Colt serial #20891.

Two months later a neighbor fell in love with it and made me an offer I couldn't refuse.

A Ruger Blackhawk, a Colt Frontier Scout later I was back looking at another Cattleman revolver.

I bought a second Cattleman April 13th of 76, same model, and same caliber and shot this one quite a bit. It was serial # 28916.

As I was shooting the second Cattleman I noticed the timing was slipping. I pulled it down and looked and the end of the bolt that works with the cam on the hammer had a sharp edge on it. This edge had cut a grove in the hammer cam and that was causing the timing to slip.

About then I went into my favorite gun shop again and was going to ask the gunsmith to fix the problem when I noticed a Cattleman box on the counter. In it was a, or what was left of an Iver Johnson’s Cattleman. It was a wreck. Its serial number was 28928.
The story of this revolver I've told here before, but for those who have forgotten here's what Wendell Bond the stores owner told me.
Two young guys came in and bought one of these Cattleman revolvers for each of them. Some time later they returned and griped about one of the revolvers not working properly. But rather than return it for a refund or repair, they had taken a .22RF and shot it to pieces. Literally. In the box which had phonetic obscenities written on the outside were the remains.
The top strap of the frame was pock marked with bullet impacts and bowed down badly. The top three chambers of the cylinder were caved in. The ejector rod housing was bent badly. The loading gate, although badly dinged up was still unbent and functional. The brass grip frame and trigger guard were broken into pieces, and the one piece wooden grips were splinters. Strangely enough the action was undamaged. The hammer, still cycled, the notches were untouched. A sudden light bulb went off in my mind and I asked Wendell if he could sell it to me. He looked at me like I was totally off my rocker. I then explained that my other Cattleman was having trouble and the parts in the ruined one would probably fix them. He wasn’t sure he should sell it. He was afraid the guys might come back. I asked him if he really thought they’d be back after what they did to it. He sold it to me for $5.00. The hammer and bolt fixed up my shooter Cattleman just fine and so the old wreck got laid aside for a while.

Some time later I got curious. I rigged up a bolt with nut and washers and straightened the top strap enough that the cylinder from my shooter would enter and rotate. Then I put the wreck back together as much as possible and decided to see if it would hold together with some hot loads. Sort of a test. I asked around and was told that 10 grs of Unique under a 255 or heavier bullet would be a considerable over load for that revolver. I was casting my Keith bullets then and they cast out at 268grs. So I assembled three rounds of that load and took the wrecked Cattleman to a gravel pit near the Salt River bottom south west of Phoenix. I tied it to a big truck tire I found there, tied a string to the trigger, loaded the one good chamber in the ruined cylinder, cocked it and crouched down behind my car. I fully expected to see the gun go to pieces when I fired it, but when I pulled the string all I heard was a boom. I went to the gun, it was intact, extracted the fired round and put the second one in, and again crouched behind my car as I pulled the string.
I ended up firing all three of the “proof” loads and the wrecked cylinder and damaged frame held together. I put it back in its box and put it away.
Somewhere along the line, the brass parts got tossed into the scrap brass bucket and recycled, and the ruined cylinder got tossed. I regret that now, as I took no pictures of the carnage when I had all the remains.

Twenty years later I found it buried under the ammo cans on the shelf under my loading bench. I thought, maybe I should get this rebuilt. So I took it to a local gun shop and asked the gunsmith if he could send it out to be magnafluxed. (By that time Bonds Gun Shop had gone out of business.) Just to make sure there was no hidden stress cracks in the frame. It came back with a clean bill of health. I was surprised. I left it at the gun shop and then things went sour in Phoenix and I moved to IL. Several years later in 2001 my stepson went to AZ on his vacation. I gave him a letter of authorization to pick up the revolver and bring it back to me.

After he brought it back I took a few pictures of what I had left. Not much but here they are:
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If you look at the upper left corner of the box that’s where the phonetic obscenities were written, they were scratched out before I got it.

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Here’s an overall view of the frame and barrel. Pretty scarred up.

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Top and right side. You can clearly see the pock marks from the .22 bullets.

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Top view. Why the frame did not crack or fracture is one on me. Glad it didn’t though.

Fast forward to August of 2006, after much thought I contacted Steve Young of Steve’s Guns in Texas. He and I discussed various ways to repair this gun and so I shipped it off to him for an estimate in October of ‘06. The money I had for this got frittered away on other things so it sat in his shop for over a year. Then in April of last year with the govt “stimulus check” I was able to send him some money to get the project actually started.
At first I wanted to order all new parts and fix it that way. But that was just way too expensive. So Steve suggested he look for a donor gun and use the parts from that.
As much as I hate to part out a perfectly good gun to fix another one I said go ahead. It took quit a while to find just the right donor gun and then Hurricane Ike got in the picture, delaying things even further.

I got a phone call last week, Oct 27th ‘O8 from Steve. We discussed the project and he told me a lot of what he’d had to do with it. He said he was able to cold swage the remainder of the bow out of the top strap to within .005”. I said that should be close enough. Probably can’t even see .005” of bow. We were going to use the hammer from the donor gun, but the geometry wasn’t right. The timing was off. So he ended up repairing the original hammer. He told me he had to order an oversized base pin and cylinder bushing due to the fact the base pin holes in the frame were bigger than normal. And that he had put a taller front sight on per my request. He then asked me what we were going to do about refinishing the gun. I replied, nothing. Steve said the marks on the top strap are still there, so I replied; if you refinish the gun that will take away the marks. If the pock marks are removed, so is the story behind the pistol. That’s why I didn’t want it refinished. He also mentioned that the bluing on the barrel would be ruined when he put in the taller front sight. I said, I don’t care, I’d rather put up with that than have to aim at the ground to hit the target. Besides, I already have two .45 Colt revolvers with cold blued gunsmith custom taller front sights, so it will be right at home. Steve said it would be done soon, but he still had some parts coming in and he couldn’t say exactly when.

Last Wednesday, 10-29, I finally got the word, it was nearing completion. Send a check for the balance and it would be done pretty soon. Oh joy, WHOOPPIIIEEEEE!!!
Check sent, and I got an email with pictures of the results 10-31-08.
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I’m overjoyed.
My 31 year Iver Johnson’s Cattleman project is finished.

Oh joy, I’m like a kid on Christmas Eve, I’m anxiously awaiting the delivery of my rebuilt Iver Johnson’s imported Uberti made C45 Cattleman .45 Colt.
I can’t stand the anticipation.

Woooo hoooo

Maybe it will get here in time for my election day range trip.... That would be fun. I got a box of factory ammo all ready for it.

Joe
Last edited by J Miller on Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:11 am, edited 3 times in total.
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***
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Tycer
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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by Tycer »

That's awesome! Great story, thanks!
Kind regards,
Tycer
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brucew44guns
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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by brucew44guns »

Joe, I'm going to send you a 1948 Peterbilt I have, want it restored and running like new, can you help me out? :lol: :lol:
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J Miller
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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by J Miller »

Bruce,

OK, but it might take a spell. This project only took 31 years :wink:

Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***
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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by Grizz »

That's a great story, THANKS.
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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by Hobie »

:D That is a joyful message of how persistence pays off. :wink:
Sincerely,

Hobie

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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by JerryB »

Great news Joe, real happy for you and I know you'll enjoy shooting it.
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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by Rusty »

Joe,

I hope you don't check books out of the library.
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tough-
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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by mescalero1 »

Cherish that gun, it has a story.
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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by J Miller »

Rusty wrote:Joe,

I hope you don't check books out of the library.
Those I return, them old librarians get mean and cranky when you don't.

mescalero1 wrote:
Cherish that gun, it has a story.
Yes it does. And when I finally get it in my hands it's story will grow. I wonder if there is anything in Texas you can shoot with an old SA shooting standard loads?

Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***
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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by mescalero1 »

New Mexico Blacktail jackrabbits!
I would say we exported them to Texas, but the truth is : jackrabbits have no respect for borders
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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by marlinman93 »

You really stick to a project Joe! :wink: I think you made the right decision on fixing it, and not refinishing; it's got character!
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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by Modoc ED »

Good on ya Joe!! A worthy project for a worthy guy!!

The gun looks darn fine and what with it's trials and tribulations will give you much pleasure.

Jeez Joe -- I'm really glad you got the taller front sight installed as you could have shot yerself in the foot if you'da had to keep aiming at the ground.
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bogus bill
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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by bogus bill »

I have a airplane project going on for about the last 25 years like that!
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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by mescalero1 »

How's it coming?
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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by bogus bill »

Oh so slowly. A before and a now. A very long sad story.

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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by J Miller »

Bill,

Nice airplane. Specifically, what make and model is it? I know it's not a P51 Mustang, but I have no idea of what it is. At least I identified the make and model of my 31 year project.

Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***
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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by 20cows »

Cesna 172 or182? 60 something model?
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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Few things better than a gun with a good story! Congrats Joe!!! :D
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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by bogus bill »

Its a 1972 citabria GCBC. (thats airbatic backwards) Basicly they are a beefed up modern version of the old aeronca champ. Same plane is still built today. It is stressed and certified for entry level airabatics, and is a nice bush type airplane. A two seater. Steve Fossett got killed in a similar one. I bought this one back in 1976 or 1977. This one towed gliders. Has the lycombing O-320 150 hp engine. First few years was a lot of fun, I flew it back home to wisconsin etc.
Then I had a ground loop in it when a factory defective axle rusted through and broke. That was about in 1986. I was going through a super bad divorice, a guy wanted to take his time recovering it and it and me were inactive for another 8 years or so. Finaly I had it fixed up or should say restored as I even had the entire engine "0"ed. I had a deal with a guy doing the work who owned his own airstrip and hanger in california where we lived at the time, would let me park for free, and he had use of it to teach his kids etc. He also would restore other planes and may or may not own other planes at the time. Labor of love for him as he has a day job also in aircraft besides. Anyway his daughter ground looped it shortly after it was totaly restored about 10 years ago. So he sort of owes me the new restornation job on a gentilmens agreement. I had other heavy drama going on at the time in my life, and he was nurseing his crippled wife plus his day job, so things came to a standstill for quite awhile. I retired, remarried and we moved here to utah. I bought a new set of factory metal spar wings for about $18,000s, and gave him $5,000 to buy whatever parts it may take when we moved here. Meanwhile I have medical problems where I am afraid to take my physical, I probley wouldnt pass it yet, and the plane is too heavy should I want to fly under sports pilot rules, where you can just use your drivers license for a medical. Kind of a catch 22! If I flunk my old medical rateing I am screwed! Also I weigh about 285 and so does my 6ft wife, and it would be nice to take some gas along. So usefull load is about 550 lbs, makeing it basicly a one pasenger plane for just me. So that isnt the right plane for the pair of us to start with! Also, she is afraid to fly with me as she has heard many embellished war storys of my flying days from my old friends, they werent all true but many were! I did go back to ground school to brush up with the paper work and knowledge a year ago, "just in case". But realilisticly, I am hopeing he finishs the plane soon, and I will probley have to sell it. It should be worth about in the $60,000 area when he gets through, and the 401K that we are liveing off is sick since this financial crisis! Gad, I caused myself a lot of work by posting that picture! But thats my story boys, and I am sticking to it!

Here is the factory site.
http://www.amerchampionaircraft.com/
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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by bogus bill »

Here is another old picture of it when I first bought it.

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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by J Miller »

Bill,

I think I like the yellow and white color better.

But that Trans Am ............. oh how I wanted one of those when they were new. Is that an SD 455 or just a 455?

Joe
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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by bogus bill »

Joe, that was a 1976 400 cube. I know a lot were 455s. That was some kind of special limited edition. Bought it used. Shortly after or durring I got married and had a daughter. Got rid of it when I tamed down. I know it would peg the speedo at about 130 mph. Strangly, the faster I went the BETTER the gas mileage! That car rode stiff and would shake yer fillings out at low speed. It would smooth out the faster ya went. Too bad that I practily had to sit down on the road to get in and out of her. My wife had a old firebrid years ago she had bought off a old woman that had ordered it with a special 4 CLINDER engine! Think hers was a 85. I never heard of a 4 clyinder engine in one of them before or since!
I am trying to decide what color right now to have the plane painted. He is getting ready to paint it and asked me to decide in our last conversation. I may try to decide from the standpoint of what would be more apt to sell than my own personal taste.
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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by J Miller »

There was something about the Pontiac 400 V8. My wife had 69 GTO with the 400 and a piddly 2 bbl carb. But that thing was scary fast. Off the line and at speed. We had to sell it when times got rough. I don't think my wife has ever gotten over it.

You could have the painter camo the airplane. That seems to be the thing now. Just kidding.

Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***
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Re: OT: ( But gun related ) It's coming home........ Yehawwww

Post by J Miller »

Just talked to Steve Young. It will ship out tomorrow. Should be here Wednesday or Thursday. :D :D :D :D :D :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Joe
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Re: OT: It's home........ Yehawwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by J Miller »

IT'S HOME!!!!!

Got here at 12:10 this afternoon. WOOOOO HOOOOO!!!!

I've been shooting Rugers for so long, that I'd forgotten how small Colt sized single actions are. This thing feels tiny to me.

Must be those BIG holes in the cylinder.

OK, Now I gotta go shoot it. Anybody wanna come along???

Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***
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Re: OT: It's home........ Yehawwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Blaine »

J Miller wrote:IT'S HOME!!!!!

Got here at 12:10 this afternoon. WOOOOO HOOOOO!!!!

I've been shooting Rugers for so long, that I'd forgotten how small Colt sized single actions are. This thing feels tiny to me.

Must be those BIG holes in the cylinder.

OK, Now I gotta go shoot it. Anybody wanna come along???

Joe
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Re: OT: It's coming home ....... Yehawwww

Post by Old Savage »

Bill - flew in a Citabria once with one of the F16 test pilots back in the 80s - he did some tricks then let me fly it around and try a few things which he straightened out if they didn't work. Landed on the dry lake bed that NASA uses and flew to Cal City for lunch. You probably covered most of that area yourself. Fun airplane, had dream about it for months afterward. Where was the field you flew out of?
In the High Desert of Southern Calif. ..."on the cutting edge of going back in time"...

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