OT: AR15 or Mini 14

[Kansas Ed]

With the recent expectation of an Obama win, and a Democratic controlled congress, Semi sales are waaayyyy up here in KS....one of the local dealers said that he's selling AR's and variants faster than he can get them in....so what's the opinion of the group here....if you were to buy a semi...what advantages does the AR have over the Mini 14? I think perhaps the uninformed may just want the "black rifle" because it's an "assault weapon", yet in my opinion, the Mini serves the same purpose, with more advantages...like cost, scopeability, and accuracy...what say the members here? I mean, I could have 2 Mini's a 14 and a 30 for the price of one good AR..

Ed

[awp101]

Using a flat top upper, you can scope the AR as easily as you can any other rifle with a rail. The AR can easily be changed to different calibers, including .22LR.

Wanna guess what my vote is for?

[O.S.O.K.]

Where are buying your mini 14? They are just a tad less than the AR's from what I've seen and the mags are sky-high. Further, their accuracy is way behind the AR unless they are accurized - $$$.

The mini-14 is a good design - and I do understand that the current crop are more accurate but a good standard AR-15 is cabaple of 1 MOA.

You can buy quality AR mags for $10 and this is an issue because you really should have at least 5 mags for your rifle - and really 7 or more is better.

As to mounting a scope - there are literally hundereds of options for the AR-15 of any configuration.

I would recommend getting a flat top receiver carbine.

If cost is the thing - then buy a stripped lower receiver ($110) and a rifle kit ($500) from http://www.del-ton.com or http://www.bravocompanyusa.com just for two - there are many more. That saves you the excise tax on the kit - you only pay it on the receiver. The kits have everything you need accept the stripped lower - you can assemble in an hour with ease - no special tools - instructions are available on the net - ask me if you have trouble finding them.

Here's a pic of my del-ton carbine that I assembled on a stag lower from http://www.aimsuruplus.com :



As you can see, I've gussied mine up with a nice eotech holographic site and back up, folding irons, plus an ergo grip. Its also got a chromed barrel which I recommend for the $45 extra...

This carbine will shoot 1 MOA easily with my handloads. I am sure it will do that with match ammo too. 1.5", 100 yard groups with white box ammo.

[kimwcook]

I have yet to see any mini 14 hold a candle in the accuracy department against an AR15. Now if I were running around in the muck and mire and absolutely had to have the rifle go bang without a chance to clean it, I'd chose the mini.

[O.S.O.K.]

I have yet to see any mini 14 hold a candle in the accuracy department against an AR15. Now if I were running around in the muck and mire and absolutely had to have the rifle go bang without a chance to clean it, I'd chose the mini.

In that scenario, I'd choose my .223 Saiga AK - if we had to stick with that caliber - otherwise, it'd be one of my 7.62x39 AK's. Nothing beats an AK for reliability in "adverse" environments.

[2ndovc]

Have a Colt AR & a Mini-14. The mini's a great little carbine but the only real problem I see is the lack of quality
high capacith magazines. I managed to pick up a few factory 20 rounders but they aren't cheap or as easy to find as
AR mags.

jb

[RSY]

Have a Colt AR & a Mini-14. The mini's a great little carbine but the only real problem I see is the lack of quality
high capacith magazines. I managed to pick up a few factory 20 rounders but they aren't cheap or as easy to find as
AR mags.

jb

JB:

I'm curious about what you had to give for the Mini 20-rd mags. Were they used or new? The brand new Ruger ones are going for $60 around here.

Scott

[O.S.O.K.]

That's what I'm talkin about - you can get 5 or 6 AR mags for the price of one of those...

[alnitak]

But one doesn't have to by Ruger OEM mags. There are a number fo aftermarket 30-35 round mags out there, from plastic to metal for around $15, that all worked fine in my Mini (although the "purists" prefer the Ruger mags).

[Jay Bird]

Buy a few lower recviers for $130, then build your own when your ready.
P.s Get some 30rd mags before you can't.
,


This one shoots 2in at 200yrds.

[O.S.O.K.]

http://www.aimsurplus.com has them for as low as $79 - but I'd go for the CMG or similar quality myself.

The thing is though, a stripped lower is worthless as a rifle and you just never know about the uppers being available - depending on how the laws are written... I'd rather have one complete rifle with mags and ammo than a bunch of receivers....

[2ndovc]

Have a Colt AR & a Mini-14. The mini's a great little carbine but the only real problem I see is the lack of quality
high capacith magazines. I managed to pick up a few factory 20 rounders but they aren't cheap or as easy to find as
AR mags.

jb

JB:

I'm curious about what you had to give for the Mini 20-rd mags. Were they used or new? The brand new Ruger ones are going for $60 around here.

Scott

Pure blind luck.
Got them new in the factory boxes for $20 ea. at a gun show. He had six and I bought them all.
I do have a couple aftermarket stainless that work fine. Pro Mag I think.

I had a mini-30. Fun gun but I went through half dozen mags before I found ONE That worked.
Like my SKSs and AK better.

Like Sixgun jr I'm going to pick up a couple lowers and stash 'em to build or trade later.

jb

[arjunky]

Like Sixgun jr said, at least by a bare lower or 2 and a few mags. Either way you'll never lose money on them.

Byron

[Old Ironsights]

AR over Mini-14... for the simple reason of being able to get a Gas Piston upper... as well as a bunch of interesting "alternate" caliber uppers & the Ceiner .22.

But if I really need an AR I'll pick one up off the ground. I'm more than certain one of the Tacticool Posers will drop theirs if/when TFHTRI.

[GonnePhishin]

OK

[Hobie]

CSM Plumley says, "if I need one there will be plenty on the ground."

[piller]

I have a Mini-30. In the accuracy department it is sorta minute of deer at 100 yards. I too had trouble with finding aftermarket magazines which worked. I had to fill in a hole in one with a MIG welder and drill the hole 1/8 inch lower using a drill press. That made it work as well as the factory 5 round magazines. If I knew what I know now, I would have bought an AR platform and bought a second complete upper in 6.8SPC or something. I am just stubborn enough to keep the Mini-30 as it has no ability to jam if I use the good magazines.

[Old Ironsights]

SP101/Rossi .357 & 1,500 (+) rounds of ammo (+500+ brass)... and a Lee Loader, 15,000 primers, 2 bullet moulds, 5,000 gas checks, a sizer, 2 qt Liquid ALOX, 16lbs 2400, a 9mm chamber reamer and 100 9mm FMJ.

Everything else is optional...

[C. Cash]

How about the newer model Mini-14's with the thicker, shorter barrel? Do the new ones seem to print better in general than the old ones? I had a Mini back in the 80's and it seemed to do just fine, but I never bench rested it and shot it for accuracy....just blasted away and always seemed to hit what I was shooting at.

[TedH]

Before long it may be just a question of which one you can get. I told my guy at the local gun store to order a Bushmaster M4 type carbine for me. He called the next day and said his distributor was OUT! My dealer called yesterday and said he got a DPMS in on trade and is going to hold it till I can get in to take a look.

[awp101]

Tom Sawyer Mfg used to do these on AR15s then sold the tooling to Orion Arms. At one time you could get the Pirate and IIRC the selector markings were:
Parley (Safe position)
ARRR! (Semi position)
Repel Boarders (Burst position)

[morgan in nm]

I have an early colt sp-1 and I've had an early mini-14 and for accuracy, I found they were identical. Both weapons did a fine 2.5" at 100yds which was good enough for me. Both were dependable and both work well with 30rd magazines which are fairly as common locally as the others. Price on the otherhand was significantly different. I sold the ruger for $400 so I could buy a nice winchester 94. I am not going to say what I had to pay for the colt It was less than a thousand though new in the box.

[O.S.O.K.]

Before long it may be just a question of which one you can get. I told my guy at the local gun store to order a Bushmaster M4 type carbine for me. He called the next day and said his distributor was OUT! My dealer called yesterday and said he got a DPMS in on trade and is going to hold it till I can get in to take a look.

DPMS = quality.

[KirkD]

I'd have to go with the mini 14.

Yes, its not as accurate as an ar, but it is rugged and dependable, and not as prone to dust/dirt as the ar is.

Just my 2 pennies worth...

I agree. Lying prone in a steady rain, with mud on my hands and my weapon, or lying in a snowdrift at 30 degrees below zero, reliability is a big issue with me. I will compromise on accuracy for the sake of reliability. I've been around the block enough times to have learned that sometimes, when conditions are the ugliest, is when you most need things to work.

[Rusty]

A Mini can't hold a candle to an AR. They won't hold up as well for long periods. Parts aren't as easy to come by, Mags are the same. Some people are using the Ar for matches and there are people making them more accurate as a result.

[Kansas Ed]

Interesting the responses here....my opinions were based upon my own experiences with a Mini some 18 years ago or so, and a buddy's trials and tribulations with about 3 or 4 AR's from that time frame. The Mini I was working with for a friend, shot into 1.5" at 100 finally, after I took the flash suppressor off ( 4-5" before that). The Mini was flawless from that point on. My other buddy tried everything back then to get a series of AR's to group...spent thousands over the course of several rifles and finally gave up....and he was possibly the best gunsmith I've ever known, not to mention a lever gun fanatic like myself. I personally have never pulled the trigger on an AR, but have had good experiences with other folks Mini's. This changes my way of thinking somewhat...I find this thread totally fascinating....

Ed

[AJMD429]

AR over Mini-14... for the simple reason of being able to get a Gas Piston upper...

The Mini-14 is a "gas piston" design though; that is why it never needs cleaned. The gas piston kits for the AR uppers (and the gas piston uppers themselves) are really pricey, but would seem to keep the gun much cleaner!

[sore shoulder]

One major reason to not buy a mini is the twist rate is too slow, I am transitioning to the 75/77 gr just like the military is doing. Others are: Mags are way too expensive. Parts are nowhere near as inexpensive or plentifull as the AR. You will never, ever get a mini to be as accurate as an AR. Try field stripping a mini sometime.

And for the finale, AR's are very reliable. All the old issues of reliability were dealt with long ago. If you get one, make sure it's chrome lined, 5.56 chamber, with a 1/8 or 1/7 twist. If you're looking for reliability, stay away from match chambers, they're too tight. Mid length gas systems are better than carbine length, rifle length is the best. A2 with the carry handle is simplest and most reliable, and if using a scope, only the ARMS mount is acceptable.

[DixieBoy]

I agree, this is a great thread. I've owned about four Mini - 14's over the last couple decades, and admit to being partial to the operating system, but....

The Ruger factory magazines for the Mini - 14 (in .223 caliber) are the ONLY mags that I ever got to consistently perform. I went as far as marking those few after-market magazines which worked consistently for me. They were few. And, at $ 60 a pop, like some of the guys here are saying, that is indeed steep.

Unlike a few of my other firearms, I never got sentimental about the Minis I owned. When I needed cash for bills, the Mini would be the first to go. That's because of the accuracy deficiency which others have mentioned here. Groups of 3" to 4" at 100 yards are going to be the norm for most Minis, unless you've spent bucks to accurize it. However, I have heard that the new, shorter barrelled (16" bbl.) Minis are much better. I don't have any personal experience to back that up, just what I've heard.

I like the Mini's operating system; it is rock solid, and I'd guess that it is more durable than an AR, but by how much? AR platforms are doing a heck of a job for our troops right now in Afghanistan and Iraq, that's got to count for something.

I'm a latecomer to the conclusion that I'm probably going to have to put aside my aversion to the AR and get my butt in gear. Nothing personal against 'em, they just never appealed to me. Mini's always looked nicer. That's just personal preference.

As far as pure practicality, I think you're going to find much more in the way of availability in the AR world. Magazines, parts, and much more. The big problem alot of poorer guys are facing now is coming up with the $ to equip ourselves, and maybe sooner than later.

Not to steer your thread off-course, but I've been thinking about buying a good solid bolt gun in .223 or .308, and then, if the kaka really does hit the fan, well...as others have noted, we might just find a few AR type rifles on the ground.

Hope you're able to get into whatever kind of rifle you decide on, and quickly at that. Good luck. - DixieBoy

[C. Cash]

I've owned both as a Civilian and toted the M-16 in the Army. Both will do fine. My only reservations about the Mini are the magazine...always had trouble getting the Mag. in with the larger replacement mags. Not something you want to happen when people are shooting at you. You can't kill an AR-15 or M-16. A pipe cleaner and some CLP for the gas tube and it won't fail you. From the sheer number of rounds that I've seen fired without failure, the AR15/M16 gets the nod. The Mini just feels nice and is so handy, and I'm sure one could overcome what challenges the rifle presented. The Russians were defeated in Afghanistan by guys that were initially toting Flintlock rifles. I reckon they made their shots count until they could pick up an AK. God help us if we get to the point where we have to do the same. I hope we never have to.

[O.S.O.K.]

I'v already registered my "vote" here, but I must say this: One or the other is better than none at all. And as long as you're willing to scrounge for the mags and pay the price.... just be sure to have one or the other along with a good supply of ammo or components... soon.

Times over for talk.

[pharmseller]

How about this for a deal?

Philomath Gun Shop
WE SELL FOR LESS



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Item # 5838-RUG MSRP $869.00
Mfg Ruger Your Price: $637.79
Model Mini-14 Ranch Rifle Sale Ends: 11/13/08
Type Rifle Quantity: 99+
Caliber: 223 Finish Blue
Additional Specifications
Action: Semi-Automatic
Stock: Green & Brown Laminate
Capacity: 5+1
Receiver: Blue with Intergral Scope Bases
Sights: Front: Protected Blade Rear: Adj Ghost Ring
Barrel Length: 18 1/2"
Overall Length: 37 1/4"
Weight: 7 lbs
Butt Plate Recoil Pad: Black Plastic Buttplate
Packaging: 1" Scope Rings Included
# of Mags: 1 Detachable Box Magazine
Additional Features 1: Sling Swivels
Additional Features 2: Exclusively Available from Davidson's


The sale ends soon. $1500 is out of my budget unless I sell a levergun (NOOOOO!) but I could do $640.

Pharmseller

[O.S.O.K.]

That is a good price on the Ruger and you can have a nice AR for that amount too. Rifle kit and stripped lower will easily fit into that price point.

[Coldfingers]

I bought a Mini in 1976. Dragged it to AK that same year. Got married, started raising kids and was mostly living hand to mouth for the next twenty years. The Mini 14 was my ONLY centerfire rifle. To say that it had a hard life would be an understatement. It has NEVER failed to fire and only failed to cycle when the gas ports got plugged from years of shooting with only minor cleaning. It has fired after sitting outside in the SuperCub at minus fifty. I have taken most every critter that one could eat or wear, usually with the first shot. On a few occasions (back seat of Super Cub) I have run a twenty round mag empty without a burp (wolves are tricky sometimes ) I have beat the stuff out of mine in planes, boats, snowmachines etc and it functions just fine. I know I could take it out today and dump a wolf inside the three hundred yard mark.

A little work can make em reasonably accurate. They will do the job at hand. Certainly qualifies as a poor man's battle rifle and with some picky shot placement, able to make one heck of a pile of moosemeat.

If you have the extra money, get something better. IF not, get a MIni and spend the savings on a few thousand rounds of ammo.

[sore shoulder]

A flip up rear can be had for a lot less than the carry handle, or just put a 3x9 on it. Way more gun and accessories for the money than the mini, which is way overpriced IMO. Also, 30 round C products AR mags with Magpul followers are $10.

http://www.rguns.net/009_58.html

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