remember 94 woes,,,,

[Nath]

it still goes on. Alot of you may recall me having poor grouping with flyers in it from my 30/30 94 trapper well I ain't cured it yet!
I missed a fox last night from a solid rest! So what we did was repeat the shot exactly on some steel with a 4" piece of white paper stuck to it.
The first shot went low and right 5" away but the next shot went plum perfect in the paper.
my friend whom has also been following my troubles asked to inspect the ammo and immediatly noticed the bullet run out on some and a lack of run out on others!
Tonight I have fiddled with my dies to try and improve things but can not. My dies are Lee and my question to you gentlemen is do you get any run out that is obviouse to the eye and what dies do you use?

Thanks,

Nath.

[O.S.O.K.]

I like Lee dies - their seating dies are well made and do a very good job for me. I don't think it would be your dies - are the bullets uniform? Try rolling them on a nice hard flat surface and observe for any minute wobble. Or, it could be the necks of your brass - again, size some and roll on the surface and observe.

Try neck sizing your brass only too - that will help it center in the bore better as full length sized pieces will "lay" on the bottom of the chamber and not be centered. This usually dosn't make that much difference but it does contribute...

Finally, check your cartridges just before you apply your crimp - roll and observe and then crimp and observe. Are you seating the bullets then applying the crimps? That is what I recommend for best results - and if you have the lee dies, you may have their factory crimp die - which is excellent IMHO. A roll-crimp can cause some runout.

And needless to say, trim and chamfer your brass before loading - different lengths combined with a crimp die will cause havock.

That's all that I can think of!

Hope that helps.

[Nath]

I like Lee dies - their seating dies are well made and do a very good job for me. I don't think it would be your dies - are the bullets uniform? Try rolling them on a nice hard flat surface and observe for any minute wobble. Or, it could be the necks of your brass - again, size some and roll on the surface and observe.

Try neck sizing your brass only too - that will help it center in the bore better as full length sized pieces will "lay" on the bottom of the chamber and not be centered. This usually dosn't make that much difference but it does contribute...

Finally, check your cartridges just before you apply your crimp - roll and observe and then crimp and observe. Are you seating the bullets then applying the crimps? That is what I recommend for best results - and if you have the lee dies, you may have their factory crimp die - which is excellent IMHO. A roll-crimp can cause some runout.

And needless to say, trim and chamfer your brass before loading - different lengths combined with a crimp die will cause havock.

That's all that I can think of!

Hope that helps.

What I have done is turn the sized brass in a drill to spot run out after suspecting the sizing die but thats fine, I then did it with seated bullets from two makes and two outa five have a wobble in the chuck plus it is obvious just looking at them. This is saying to me the seating die is not supporting the case enough.
All is trimmed and chamfered. I have tried the neck size only and the problem still exists. I can see me getting better dies!
I will hopefully test again tomorrow with rounds that are marked for run out and see if they are the flyers.

[Nath]

I have just ordered from Midwayuk a Forster full length seater die in an attempt to find the solution, it has to be cheaper than buying another gun

Nath.

[mescalero1]

Nath,
Do you , or anyone you know have access to a machinists v-block and a dial indicator?
If so spin your bullets and cases in there and watch the dial, you should be concentric for an entire revolution of each piece.

[w30wcf]

Nath,
Hopefully your new Forester seating die will make more accurate reloads. I have a Forester Benchrest .30-30 seating die that I have been using for probably at least 20 years. It makes very good accurate ammunition.

w30wcf

[Nath]

Fingers crossed about the die then but what made you buy the special die w30wcf?

Today I took the scope off and put the peep back on that has not been on for a couple of years and shot the same targets as I had with the scope on. I shot the same size groups at one hundred paces as the scope with the peep. Apart from impressive I was pleased it says the scope is not to blame. The peep was all but still on zero too!

I still think it's ammo related and wish I could buy factory to just try but it's not so easy over here.

I also suspect barrel/fouling condition as in I may have been over cleaning and it takes many rounds to settle down but then I go and clean it again so for now I'm not cleaning it to see what happens.

Nath.

[O.S.O.K.]

Well, that's odd. You could have sent the seater die back to Lee with an explaination of your results and they'd most likely send you a new one to try.

Other than that, I really like my Hornady dies which have a sleeve which drops down and supports the case neck and bullet all the way up to the seating ram...

Your new die will most likely work for you though - good job Holmes!

[JerryB]

Nath this is still very interesting,so please keep us informed on your progress. I need to get some 30wcf loaded up for myself.

[Nath]

Update.
Put the scope back on today but first I altered the trigger to all but remove the rebound, I did this because I had some misfires recently, I had none today!
The two loads I have going at the moment I am pleased to say have shrunk to around 1 1/2" @ 100paces.
One of the loads with a Hornady or a Speer on top go the same place!
Fed primers cause flyers on these loads so I'm sticking to the cci benchrest.
I AM NOT SCRUBBING THE BARREL! I now think this may of been where I was going wrong too. Why group size has shrunk I'm not sure as I have done a couple of changes together but one thing is clear it ain't shooting worse because of the fouling!
The most interesting test I did today was with 5 rounds that were indexed from start to finish and all loaded in the gun in the same position which reduced the group some more to around 1 1/4". Not a dramatic improvement but it would suggest the better seater die is going to help.

Next chance I get will be to comfirm zero is still set, it would be out a couple of inch every time recently but as stated it may I hope been due to me cleaning and then the barrel needing to foul itself again to return to zero by which time I had adjusted again creating a vicious circle. I like to think I,m handy with stuff but the one thing I am good at is puting my foot in it

Nath.

[O.S.O.K.]

Nath, about the only thing more damaging to your ego than messing around with guns and ammo is golf.

[J Miller]

Light or inconsistent primer strikes can and will effect your group size. Inconsistent ignition is the result of the light primer strikes.

One other comment; I 've never used Lee rifle dies, but I notice a tremendous ammount of wobble to the pistol dies as I use them due to the o-ring locking ring. You might try putting a good split ring on the Lee dies and see if that helps.

Joe

[Nath]

Thanks Mr Miller, I feel the modified trigger I did yesterday has made a differance. It feels more snappy during shooting than the mushy sensation I am familiar with.
You are correct about the Lee dies having a wobble but so has the ram! I have marker pened the press, die and lock nut for consistant positioning though.
I have just boticed the same bullet run out on my Hornet ammo! In saying that that shoots ok, I'm getting a headach.

[J Miller]

Thanks Mr Miller, I feel the modified trigger I did yesterday has made a differance. It feels more snappy during shooting than the mushy sensation I am familiar with.
You are correct about the Lee dies having a wobble but so has the ram! I have marker pened the press, die and lock nut for consistant positioning though.
I have just boticed the same bullet run out on my Hornet ammo! In saying that that shoots ok, I'm getting a headach.

If your ram has too much play you'll play heck getting consistent ammo. It might be time for a new heavy duty cast iron monster of a press. Honestly, that's the only kind I trust. Aluminum or the bolt together kind need not apply.

My two favorites are the Bonanza / Forster Co-Ax, and RCBS Rock Chucker.

Joe

[Old Savage]

A friend of mine with a host of reloading combos tested all the combinations he could come up with for bullet run out and surprisingly discovered he got the least with a Dillon RL 550 B and Lee Collet dies.

[Nath]

Thanks guys and I am sure you are right.
I am not sure what the dillon press is like that OS mentions but I will be looking to change my lee press soon.

Nath.

[J Miller]

Nath,

The Dillon presses are just about the Rolls Royce of progressive presses. I've used only one some years back, and ran out of cases to load before I ran out of having fun doing it.
Here's their link: http://www.dillonprecision.com/

Joe

[w30wcf]

Nath,
I originally purchased the set of Forester Benchrest dies because I wanted to make the most accurate ammuniton for my two Rem. 788 Bolt action .30-30's, which they did. I then used them for reloading my .30-30's for my leverguns.

The Forester bullet seating die aligns the case with the bullet in the sleeve then during the seating process, the sleeve moves up into the die to seat the bullet into the case.

Glad to hear of your recent better results.

w30wcf