POLITICS - Sheriff Begins Taking Away CCW Permits

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don Tomás
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POLITICS - Sheriff Begins Taking Away CCW Permits

Post by don Tomás »

Here we go, folks. Don't worry, though. B. Hussein Obama will take care of all this when he gets in office... [/sarcasm]
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Sheriff begins taking away concealed weapons permits
Hundreds of letters have been sent out advising current permit holders of impending revocation.
BY NORBERTO SANTANA JR.
The Orange County Register

The Sheriff's Department has begun the process of revoking hundreds of concealed weapon permits across Orange County.

This week, department officials confirmed that 146 letters have been sent out advising current license holders that their permits to carry firearms in public – called CCWs – are being revoked. There are currently 1,024 permit holders.

"The Department has determined that your identified risk does not meet the good cause threshold as required under the new CCW policy based upon the information you provided. As a result of this determination, the Department's present intention is to revoke your CCW license," reads the form letter sent out this month.

The letter, sent out under the signature of Captain Dave Nighswonger, advises current holders that if they feel that additional information should be considered they have roughly one month to provide additional good cause information for the department to consider before the revocation becomes final.

This week, county supervisors grilled Sheriff Sandra Hutchens during her 120-day update on the reorganization of the agency about the status of the concealed weapons review.

Hutchens acknowledged to supervisors that she had indeed tightened requirements for the permits but highlighted the fact that no current license had yet been revoked.

But it seems unlikely that those who are getting the letters won't be revoked.

"Most of them are not coming back with the information we need," said Nighswonger. "A lot of them are arguing the second amendment (to the U.S. Constitution)," he said.

Nighswonger said many of the current revocations listed their reason for having a concealed gun as "avid shooter."

That no longer qualifies under Hutchen's new standards.

Under state law, a Sheriff has discretion to issue concealed weapons permits. And under the administration of former Sheriff Mike Carona – whose federal corruption trial starts on Oct. 28 – guidelines for issuing concealed weapons permits were loosened.

Records reviewed by the Orange County Register show that concealed weapon permits soared under Carona, from 38 in 1998 to 468 the next year. By 2006, it was up to 1,400, a four-fold increase.

When Carona took over in 1998, Orange County ranked 34th in terms of the numbers of permits granted. By 2006, Orange County was ranked number nine.

However, the Register also found numerous instances where campaign donors received the permits. A Register analysis of Carona campaign contributions from 1996 to the end of 2001 shows that at least 95 contributors – who gave at least $68,000 - got licenses.

Indeed, the federal indictment against Carona details one specific instance where a wealthy contributor was granted a license under questionable circumstances.

Hutchens has said that connection prompted her to review the policies and tighten the standards.

Her revisions, and the revocation letters, have enraged gun activists who are pressing county supervisors to take action.

"There's a lot of business owners and a lot of gun owners that have had CCWs that have never met Mike Carona or contributed," said Greg Block, a Huntington Beach-based firearms instructor and activist.

He and many activists suggest a different standard: "If you are not a convicted felon, you should be able to get able to get a CCW in California," Block said.
Tom

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Re: OT - Sheriff Begins Taking Away CCW Permits (Orange Co., CA)

Post by kimwcook »

Shouldn't be a needed reason other than I want to carry concealed legally.
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Re: OT - Sheriff Begins Taking Away CCW Permits (Orange CO., CA)

Post by Mike D. »

Having and maintaining a CCWP in CA has become a real pain in the tail in the past few years. The hassle of jumping through hoops with the local PD and the increase in fees has made it not worthwhile. :(
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Re: OT - Sheriff Begins Taking Away CCW Permits (Orange Co., CA)

Post by Lefty Dude »

If you have a CCW, they know who has the fire arms, and where to come and get them.

I live in an Open-Carry state, I do not have a CCW and never will. We have CCW laws, but many of use refuse to apply for the permit. When I pack it shows, and I follows my State's fire arms laws.
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Birdman
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Re: OT - Sheriff Begins Taking Away CCW Permits (Orange Co., CA)

Post by Birdman »

Mike D. That is their intention. If they make it too big of a hassle no one will follow all the red tape and they have acomplished what they wanted. Then Cal will be just like Illannoy and Wisconsin.
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bsaride
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Re: OT - Sheriff Begins Taking Away CCW Permits (Orange Co., CA)

Post by bsaride »

I live in Orange County, CA.

I don't have a CCW and don't expect I would ever get one here.

The real answer to the question should be:

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Re: OT - Sheriff Begins Taking Away CCW Permits (Orange Co., CA)

Post by Old Savage »

Get rid of the sheriff.
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Re: OT - Sheriff Begins Taking Away CCW Permits (Orange Co., CA)

Post by Bearhands »

Old Savage wrote:Get rid of the sheriff.

FAST!
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meanc
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Re: OT - Sheriff Begins Taking Away CCW Permits (Orange Co., CA)

Post by meanc »

I lived in Orange Co. for close to 15yrs (left in 2003)

Never had a permit, never had any intentions of getting a permit, and never once let that stop me carrying for self defense purposes.

I'd never allow my family's lives or well being to rest solely on the shoulders of the rediculously inept California lawmakers or the Orange County LEOs.

And if you think I'm being too harsh, consider that 3 million people live in Orange County, then look at how many thousands of gang members reside in Orange County, and then look at the paltry 1400 ELITE citizens who have CCWs.

It really upsets me that California is still such a screwed up state. It would have been nice to stay, but there are many more negatives than the positives could ever make up for.
...and I don't think he even knows it...Walks around with a half-assed grin...If he feels fear, he don't show it. Just rides into hell and back again.
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Re: OT - Sheriff Begins Taking Away CCW Permits (Orange Co., CA)

Post by AJMD429 »

Old Savage wrote:Get rid of the sheriff.
Maybe it sounds scary, but no LEO should EVER have "say so" over who owns/carries a gun. If you are of age, and not in jail, you should be 'allowed' to carry; if you are so 'dangerous' that you shouldn't be trusted with a gun, then what the heck are you out on the streets for? Sure, some loonies and idiots would have guns (but they do already, legal or not), but the harm a few of them can do vs. the harm an authoritarian police authority can do is no comparison. Remember - around 5,000 innocent civilians are killed PER DAY in the nations with 'reasonable' gun laws - i.e. those which do not allow citizens to have concealed weapons, 'assault' weapons, or any unregistered weapon. Genocide kills at least seven times as many people as criminals and accidents combined, so don' facilitate genocide in some symbolic effort to 'control' criminals. (See R.J. Rummel's research on genocide, and Simkin/Zelman's book on gun control's role as facilitator.)

The LEO's are supposed to be given - by the citizen - a limited, revokable, permission to bear arms while acting in the public service - not the other way around. The other way around is the basis of a 'police state.'
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Re: OT - Sheriff Begins Taking Away CCW Permits (Orange Co., CA)

Post by Paladin »

AJMD429 wrote:
Old Savage wrote:Get rid of the sheriff.
Maybe it sounds scary, but no LEO should EVER have "say so" over who owns/carries a gun. If you are of age, and not in jail, you should be 'allowed' to carry; if you are so 'dangerous' that you shouldn't be trusted with a gun, then what the heck are you out on the streets for? Sure, some loonies and idiots would have guns (but they do already, legal or not), but the harm a few of them can do vs. the harm an authoritarian police authority can do is no comparison. Remember - around 5,000 innocent civilians are killed PER DAY in the nations with 'reasonable' gun laws - i.e. those which do not allow citizens to have concealed weapons, 'assault' weapons, or any unregistered weapon. Genocide kills at least seven times as many people as criminals and accidents combined, so don' facilitate genocide in some symbolic effort to 'control' criminals. (See R.J. Rummel's research on genocide, and Simkin/Zelman's book on gun control's role as facilitator.)

The LEO's are supposed to be given - by the citizen - a limited, revokable, permission to bear arms while acting in the public service - not the other way around. The other way around is the basis of a 'police state.'
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Re: POLITICS - Sheriff Begins Taking Away CCW Permits

Post by wm »

And this why "SHALL ISSUE" legislation is so important.....
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Re: POLITICS - Sheriff Begins Taking Away CCW Permits

Post by Paul105 »

Montana is a "Shall Issue" state and an "Open Carry" state. Fill out the app, show evidence of a training class (hunter's safety is accepted), pass a background check, pay your $50 processing fee and about 6 weeks later your CCW arrives in the mail. You have to renew every 4 or 5 yrs ($25 i think). With the CCW, you can buy a firearm without the background check phone call. You don't even need a CCW to carry concealed if you are not in a town (and a couple of other places) if you are hunting, fishing, hiking or recreating. What a novel concept.

Paul
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Re: POLITICS - Sheriff Begins Taking Away CCW Permits

Post by donw »

unfortunaltely, kaliphornia will NEVER relent on it's ccw and ASW laws as long as the legislature that sits now is there...mostly democrats and a great number of anti-gun women dems...

i applied for a ccw in sd county and was given a brochure that told potential ccw candidates that "even though you pass all background checks, all written tests, pay all fees and complete all classes required you may still be denied a CCW",..issuance is based on the 'whim' of a interviewing sheriffs lt. if he doesn't like the way you part your hair, trim your mustouche, color of your eyes, the style of your shoes...whatever...he can deny your application.

if i recall correctly, you may carry a concealed weapon in california when hunting and fishing but it's subject to every other ccw law, too...and the rangers here are really paranoid about anyone but themselves having handguns.

i was hunting quail a few years back and a ranger stopped me i was carrying a singe shot shotgun and wearing a 9mm auto in the open...the ranger told me to "lay your shotgun down, keep your hands in the air...why are you wearing that sidearm?" i asked him if it was illegal and he replied "no". he then asked to see my ID and hunting license. once he saw it all, he just walked away, got in his truck and left...it's odd that he never asked me to unholster or present the pistol to him...
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Re: OT - Sheriff Begins Taking Away CCW Permits (Orange Co., CA)

Post by bigbore442001 »

Lefty Dude wrote:If you have a CCW, they know who has the fire arms, and where to come and get them.

I live in an Open-Carry state, I do not have a CCW and never will. We have CCW laws, but many of use refuse to apply for the permit. When I pack it shows, and I follows my State's fire arms laws.
Not to sound stupid but what holster/ gun combination do you use to carry in the open? I seem to recall a good 18 years ago reading an article about a custom holster maker from Arizona that developed a holster that partially concealed the gun but still fit the legal parameters for open carry. Thanks
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Re: POLITICS - Sheriff Begins Taking Away CCW Permits

Post by AJMD429 »

Paul105 wrote:Montana is a "Shall Issue" state and an "Open Carry" state. Fill out the app, show evidence of a training class (hunter's safety is accepted), pass a background check, pay your $50 processing fee and about 6 weeks later your CCW arrives in the mail. You have to renew every 4 or 5 yrs ($25 i think). With the CCW, you can buy a firearm without the background check phone call. You don't even need a CCW to carry concealed if you are not in a town (and a couple of other places) if you are hunting, fishing, hiking or recreating. What a novel concept.

Paul
That's pretty good, except for the part about 'training class' - in many states that starts out as a benign safety-and-basic-laws class, then morphs into a high-cost, only-offered-twice-a-year 100 miles away, nit-picking test designed mostly to discourage applicants. You will have to keep that from happening.

I'm not convinced that the training class does much more than handing a copy of "In the Gravest Extreme" by Masaad Ayoob would do, and probably the book has more valuable information, IMHO.
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Re: POLITICS - Sheriff Begins Taking Away CCW Permits

Post by Paul105 »

AJ,

I understand your concern, but not sure it is valid in this instance. It's not really a "class", but you must "demonstrate familiarity with a firearm" following is directly from the statute (probably more than anyone outside of MT wants to know).

3) An applicant for a permit under this section must, as a condition to issuance of the permit, be required by the sheriff to demonstrate familiarity with a firearm by:
(a) completion of a hunter education or safety course approved or conducted by the department of fish, wildlife, and parks or a similar agency of another state;
(b) completion of a firearms safety or training course approved or conducted by the department of fish, wildlife, and parks, a similar agency of another state, a national firearms association, a law enforcement agency, an institution of higher education, or an organization that uses instructors certified by a national firearms association;
(c) completion of a law enforcement firearms safety or training course offered to or required of public or private law enforcement personnel and conducted or approved by a law enforcement agency;
(d) possession of a license from another state to carry a firearm, concealed or otherwise, that is granted by that state upon completion of a course described in subsections (3)(a) through (3)(c); or
(e) evidence that the applicant, during military service, was found to be qualified to operate firearms, including handguns.
(4) A photocopy of a certificate of completion of a course described in subsection (3), an affidavit from the entity or instructor that conducted the course attesting to completion of the course, or a copy of any other document that attests to completion of the course and can be verified through contact with the entity or instructor that conducted the course creates a presumption that the applicant has completed a course described in subsection (3).
(5) If the sheriff and applicant agree, the requirement in subsection (3) of demonstrating familiarity with a firearm may be satisfied by the applicant's passing, to the satisfaction of the sheriff or of any person or entity to which the sheriff delegates authority to give the test, a physical test in which the applicant demonstrates the applicant's familiarity with a firearm.

Hunter Safety Courses (which qualify) are offered several times a year all over the state and they are free. Anyone 11 years or older can take the Hunter Safety Course.

FWIW,

Paul
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Re: POLITICS - Sheriff Begins Taking Away CCW Permits

Post by Both94sPlus »

I was a CA LEO for 28 years, and I couldn't have cared less whether taxpaying soccer dads and Tupperware moms had PPKs and Chief Specials in their glove boxes or waistbands. Now, a gang-banger with a Raven or Lorcin.......THAT interested me. A felon with an AK made my day.

I worked CRIMINALS, I didn't try to create them out of decent citizens carrying pistols to protect themselves against the catch-and-release fishery that our court system turned our society into, a society that emphasized the rights of apex predators to rob, rape, and plunder over the rights of victims to counter such atrocities.
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Re: POLITICS - Sheriff Begins Taking Away CCW Permits

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Oregon also is a shall issue state once you take the class. I am SO GLAD I don't live in California. It's a great place to visit ...
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