Range report: Vintage Winchester Model 1892 38-40

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KirkD
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Range report: Vintage Winchester Model 1892 38-40

Post by KirkD »

An unexpected change in my schedule today freed some time up to head down to the range over the lunch hour. My first experience at the range with my 'new' Winchester Model 1892 38 W.C.F. (38-40) made in 1913 showed me that I had some load development to do, so today I tried four loads and chronographed them as well. Here is the data:

Bullet: RCBS plain base, 188 grain lubed and sized

Loads:

16 grains of 5744, bullet sized to .401 .... 1,146 fps, E.S.= 33 fps, S.D. = 14 fps.
16 grains of 5744, bullet unsized at .404 .... 1.146 fps
20 grains of IMR 4198, bullet sized to .401 ... 1,322 fps, E.S.= 93 fps, S.D.= 35 fps
14 grains of 2400, bullet sized to .401 ... 1,200 fps, E.S.= 40 fps, S.D.= 14 fps

Note: after more than 50 rounds between my two visits to the range, there is no trace of leading. Bore is shiny with strong, sharp rifling.

Range and Rest: All targets were shot at 100 yards, resting my rifle on my shooting bag on a bench. Open iron sights.

RESULTS:

16 grains of 5744, bullet sized to .401: With a 5-shot group of 4 & 3/8" at 100 yards, this wasn't the tightest group I've ever seen in my life, but considering that this rifle would be used for Whitetail Deer at ranges of 100 yards or less, it would certainly get the bullets into the boiler room. However, I want at least 1,300 fps for a hunting load. Here's the target ...
Image

16 grains of 5744, bullet unsized at .404: I wanted to see what a larger diameter bullet would do with the same load as above, so I hand-lubed 5 of them and let 'er rip downrange. This gave me a 5-shot group at 100 yards of 3 & 1/2". Not bad, but not good enough yet to do brain surgery at 100 yards. Here's the target ....
Image

20 grains of IMR 4198, bullet sized to .401: Like I said, I'd like somewhere between 1,350 and 1,400 fps for my deer load, so I figured I'd try IMR 4198. The thinking on this one was that the bullet would get a bit gentler send-off for the same muzzle velocity. I took a shot and couldn't see it on the paper with my little binoculars, so I took a stroll down and saw that it was on target. I marked it and you can see it in the photo below (fastest bullet). I then went back and took the remaining four shots. I was surprised at the E.S. of 93 fps; I don't normally get that kind of E.S. with IMR 4198. It turned out that my first shot was the fastest, 55 fps faster than average and 93 fps faster than the slowest shot. The horizontal spread was only 2 & 7/16", and I strongly suspect that the larger vertical spread is due to the 93 fps extreme spread, especially since I confirmed that the highest hole was also the fastest velocity. I have to say that I'm pleased with this, considering the 1,322 fps average velocity and that all bullets would be in the vitals for a deer broadside. Now I just got to get that E.S. down and maybe I'll have a vertical spread of only 2 & 1/2". There are two ways to do this. One is to use a bit of toilet paper filler and reduce the charge slightly. That never fails to give more consistent burning and a much lower E.S. The second option is to increase the load another grain or two. I also might want to try IMR 3031 for a capacity load. Anyway, here's the target ....
Image

14 grains of 2400, bullet sized to .401: Finally, I figured I'd try 2400. The thinking behind this one is that it is faster than 5744, so it might bump up the bullet a bit better and improve accuracy. When the smoke had cleared and I saw my target, four shots were within 1 & 13/16" and the fifth shot widened the group to 3 & 1/2" at 100 yards. This is definitely encouraging and warrants further experimentation with 2400. Still, the velocity is only 1,200 fps, but I'm going to try a bit more 2400 to see how it does at higher velocities. 2400 just might turn out to be the cat's whiskers for this bullet and rifle. Here's the photo of the target ....
Image

I don't plan to use this old classic Winchester this year for deer (I'm using a Winchester 30-30 carbine made in 1954, named 'Old Savage' for deer this year), but I just couldn't wait to see how this old Winchester would do. For those of you who haven't seen my old rifle, she's an honest rifle that's earned its keep over the past 95 years. Here she is ....
Image
Last edited by KirkD on Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
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Re: Range report: Vintage Winchester Model 1892 38-40

Post by Ben_Rumson »

Love them range reports! Thanks ..Can't blame ya for bolting out and shooting that old beauty at first chance..
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Re: Range report: Vintage Winchester Model 1892 38-40

Post by Sixgun »

Kirk,
Very acceptable accuracy out of your '92. You figure, it has open sights and the shooter has 54 year old eyes. I commend you for shooting those groups as I would be lucky to get 6 inches with open sights. :D A good' ole original Lyman #1 w an ivory front bead and those deer would be inthe freezer like a piece of cake

I know you have your likings wth 2400, but with the pistol calibered guns, Unique has always done right by me. 9 grains will give you what you are looking for.------------------Sixgun
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Re: Range report: Vintage Winchester Model 1892 38-40

Post by Old Savage »

Looks like you are there Kirk, nice picture.
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Re: Range report: Vintage Winchester Model 1892 38-40

Post by O.S.O.K. »

Good shooting and I love that rifle - very nice.
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Re: Range report: Vintage Winchester Model 1892 38-40

Post by KirkD »

Sixgun, Unique would likely work but I have this irrational aversion to using it in leverguns unless I absolutely have to. I'll see what 2400 does at 1,400 fps.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
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Re: Range report: Vintage Winchester Model 1892 38-40

Post by Mike D. »

Well done, as usual, Kirk! Sweet little '92 'ya got there, too. I have always had an affinity for round barreled Winchesters. Most folks like the octagonals, so that leaves more for me. :)
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Re: Range report: Vintage Winchester Model 1892 38-40

Post by KirkD »

Mike, there is something about this old '92 that I really like. It's just a well taken care of, honest old Winchester. I also like those little milk bottle shaped cartridges.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
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Re: Range report: Vintage Winchester Model 1892 38-40

Post by Borregos »

Interesting report, thanks for posting, there is certainly something appealing about the cartridge shape!!
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Re: Range report: Vintage Winchester Model 1892 38-40

Post by RIHMFIRE »

Excellent report...
I'm gonna have to steel some of your load info
and stuff them into my 1926 92......and
Very beautiful rifle....
looks like another calander pic too!
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Re: Range report: Vintage Winchester Model 1892 38-40

Post by SmokeEater2 »

Thanks for the range report KirkD. That's a fine looking Winchester You have there. I love old "working" rifles.
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Re: Range report: Vintage Winchester Model 1892 38-40

Post by Kansas Ed »

Kirk,
I use 13.0 gr. of 2400 in both of my 73's, and also my buddy's 73. Though I have been shooting Gold Dots with a cannelure added. We have a box of cast bullets to try now, so will start with the same load and go from there.


My jacketed 92 load is 21.0 gr of 2400 and slays deer....This was Snooky's recommended load.

38-40 is one of my all time favorite calibers...seeing as how I have 3 of them :mrgreen:

Ed
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Re: Range report: Vintage Winchester Model 1892 38-40

Post by Old Time Hunter »

Kirk, Great post as always!

What's the aversion towards Unique? I load 8.2 grains in my .44-40 behind a 200 grain LFN, seems to work well.
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Re: Range report: Vintage Winchester Model 1892 38-40

Post by KirkD »

Old Time Hunter wrote:Kirk, Great post as always!

What's the aversion towards Unique? I load 8.2 grains in my .44-40 behind a 200 grain LFN, seems to work well.
For the same velocity, Unique gives a much higher pressure spike than 2400. On the plus side, the massive pressure spike does bump up the bullet right smartly, resulting in good accuracy. It might be fine at traditional velocities like 1,200 fps, but I'd be nervous about using it to give 1,400 fps over the long haul.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
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Re: Range report: Vintage Winchester Model 1892 38-40

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Another excellent range report Kirk. Lookings like that 2400 load is dialing in. Is the old girl capable of much better accuracy than that load showed?
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Re: Range report: Vintage Winchester Model 1892 38-40

Post by KirkD »

Ysabel Kid wrote:Another excellent range report Kirk. Lookings like that 2400 load is dialing in. Is the old girl capable of much better accuracy than that load showed?
Given that 2400 load put 4 out of the 5 shots into a 1 & 13/16" circle at 100 yards, I've figuring that this old rifle is at least capable of that. Whether I'm capable of seeing that good all the time, is another question.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
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Re: Range report: Vintage Winchester Model 1892 38-40

Post by Griff »

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: I WAS hopin' to get in some range time this Sat., but... the B-I-L is off to a Rendevous 2morrow & won't be back to Sat nite. So... I think I'll dro off u '51s with the 'smith for the Manhatten conversion and go right back to work. Still need to hook up w/the BIL to get one of his spare OM .357 Blackhawks off'n him!
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Re: Range report: Vintage Winchester Model 1892 38-40

Post by Old Ironsights »

I'll tell ya, the more I play with 2400 the more I like it.

I loaded up a bunch of 9.3x72R with 18gr 2400 under a 190gr cast PB bullet. At 1500fps it will shoot the "o" out of a "Coke" bottle at 75yds... from the nasty sights on that old Drilling of mine.

Seems like 2400 might be about the perfect BP "substitute"... :wink: :mrgreen:
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Re: Range report: Vintage Winchester Model 1892 38-40

Post by Ysabel Kid »

KirkD wrote: Whether I'm capable of seeing that good all the time, is another question.
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