Heavy bullet -45 LC loads for Marlin 1894-cowboy

[swifty]

Is there any data on a 320 grain LFN cast bullet deep seated in a 45 LC with an OL of 1.585? I have check and this bullet will feed properly. I made a dummy round to test feeding.
The mold is a LBT LFN length .820 sized .545 and lubbed with liquid alox.
My plan was to load on top of 5.5 grains of Red Dot.
Do you have a better idea for a small volume powder for about a 850 FPS?
My bullet was designed to shoot in a Freedom Arms 454 on top of 8.5 grains of Unique.

[jd45]

I think this COULD be a recipe for disaster, even tho your rifle is capable of withstanding 45,000psi loads. This powder you mention is number 6 on my Vihtivuori burn-rate chart, which means really fast pressure-rise. You couple that with a 320gr bullet seated PAST the crimp groove, which will increase pressures who knows HOW much, & there's your dilema. I'm no ballistician, but I'd rethink this combo. If someone with more knowledge can weigh in, pleasee do. jd45

[jd45]

P.S.......maybe you should use Unique? jd45

[swifty]

That is why I am looking for data. My other option would be about 8.0 grains of Unique

[jd45]

swifty, I hope you find info that'll give you a SAFE load with that weight bullet for the velocity you're after. jd45

[Hobie]

Swifty,

You found the data, you just don't want to use it. Why? Is the additional 2.5 gr. of powder too expensive? FWIW Lyman shows 6.0 gr. RedDot as max with a 255 gr. cast bullet.

[Ysabel Kid]

BTW - welcome to the forum! I'd heed the advice given...

[AJMD429]

How about castboolits.com or reloadersnest.com - would they be likely resources...?

[w30wcf]

swifty,
I have shot this bullet from my 1894 .45 Colt Marlin Cowboy crimped in the crimping groove. That makes the round longer than the 1.585 you referenced but I found that it feeds from the magazine just fine from my Marlin. You may want to give that a try in yours.

If your rifle has the slow 38" twist (mine does), it will not stabilize that bullet at the lower velocity you're shooting for.

I use 20 grs. / W296 (crimped in the crimping groove), which does almost 1,400 f.p.s. with good accuracy and is more than 10% below Hodgdon's data.

Have fun,
w30wcf

[Yance]

Swifty;

Like John said, that bullet probably won't stabilize at that velocity, besides the reduced internal capacity and FAST powder making for a steep pressure curve.

I shoot the 330 gr Lyman Gould HP (sized .458) in my Marlin and Puma over 23.0 gr H-110 or W296. Velocities out of both the 16" Marlin and 20" Puma are a shade over 1500 FPS.

COAL 1.660" feeds fine in both rifles.

I didn't do it, but I've seen a 3 shot, 1 1/2" group @ 115 yards fired with this load in a friend's EMF Hartford.

If the bullet has only one crimp groove you might try using Lee's Factory Crimp Die to let the case "bite" into the slightly softer cast boolit. If a ring swells at the crimp, the carbide sizer ring in the die mouth will size it back down for smooth chambering.

BTW, the boolits I use are cast from 30-1, same as my BP boolits. "Fat" boolits, LBT Blue lube, 1500+FPS, no leading.

[swifty]

Yance and John:
Did you have a reference in writing for the loads you are suggesting? Could you give me the reference?
I read in one of the loading manuals that a slower burning 2400 might work better in the 45 LC rifle. I had Veral Smith make this LBT mold for me for my 454 Casuel Freedom Arms revolver, he had mentioned 8-10 grains of Unique for target range work. Veral said that the 320 grain bullet would be more accurate that the 260 grain LBT bullet that I have been using.
I will make up some dummy rounds to see how they feed.

[Yance]

Swifty;

My info came from Paco's article on loading heavy boolits for the .45 Colt. You should be able to find it in the archives on the old forum.

This might make it a little easier to find.

http://leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

[swifty]

Yance:
Thanks a lot for the article from Pacco Kelly. I am going to work up a load with a slower burning 2400. I think I will start with 16.5 grains and work it through a chronograph. The bullet is a LBT LFN-GC sized .454 lubed with LBT Blue lube.

[w30wcf]

swifty,

As Yance indicated, PACO has some good data for the .45 Colt.
Back in the 1980's when PACO was writing for the Cast Bullet Association, Jim Taylor / John Linebaugh published a chart of .45 Colt data with heavy bullets taken at the Hodgdon Ballistics lab.

The current Hodgdon Data on the web also shows some loads for .45 Colt heavy bullets. Previously, Hodgdon's Data manual No. 26 published in the early 1990's also had some data with heavy bullets in the .45 Colt. For 2400, they show 19.0 grs. under a 325 gr. bullet at 29,900 CUP. Velocity in a 7" test barrel was 1,122 f.p.s.

Yance,
Ah, the Gould bullet in the .45 Colt....one of my favorites. I size mine at .457". Favorite load is 20/296 for 1,385 f.p.s. in my Marlin's 24" barrel which is a ballistic duplicate to the old .45-70-330 loading. I have shot that load out to the 500 meter steel ram and it shoots well at that distance too.
There was a thread about the 457122 in the .45 Colt a few years back at Beartooth Bullets.....diameter, loads, etc were discussed.
http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=22882
I chimed in beginning with reply #12.

w30wcf

[Hobie]

Ah, the Gould bullet in the .45 Colt....one of my favorites. I size mine at .457". Favorite load is 20/296 for 1,385 f.p.s. in my Marlin's 24" barrel which is a ballistic duplicate to the old .45-70-330 loading.

That sounds interesting especially since I've got the mold...

I don't have a Marlin in .45 Colt but do have the EMF/Rossi 92. I load 23 gr. H110 under the 300 gr. jacketed and cast bullets. Works a treat. But that is a "Ruger only load" in the manuals, it isn't undocumented. I've got an idea of what pressure it develops. I couldn't find such info on the load with RedDot. If you guys remember, .45Stomp used 26 gr H110 under a 320-330 (can't remember which right now) cast bullet in his Winchester/Miroku rifle.

[w30wcf]

Heres a link to a picture showing the different bullet seating depths in the aforementioned thread at Beartooth Bullets.
http://shootersforum.com/attachment.htm ... 1133754048
http://shootersforum.com/attachment.htm ... 1133754003

Lots of interesting data as well!
http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=22882

w30wcf

[Yance]

John;

Good thread.

Guess I was still napping when I stated the .460 diameter, or had "dis-remembered" a detail or two.

Originally I did load those at .460" or slightly under. They would chamber easily, but on my Puma they were just a bit too fat to make it through the cartridge guides. I thought the Lee FCD might size them down enough to work bit it didn't. Wound up sizing them .458 anyway and still use the FCD.

As for the Lee FCD, I shoot black powder in competition and the FCD is the ONLY way to go! Cases are not resized, only deprimed and cleaned. Powder charge, (35 gr Goex FFFg is compressed enough to make room for a .030 veggie wad and .100" grease wafer of 2/1 beeswax/Bore Butter.Boolit is simply thumb seated then run into the FCD. Perfect crimp and it feeds in anything.

[swifty]

shooting the 45-70 gould bullet sized to .458 in a Marlin 1894 45 LC.
Are you saying you are shooting a 45-79 bullet in a 45 LC?

[w30wcf]

swifty,
Yes, a bullet designed for the .45-70 in the .45 Colt. Many, many years ago, Elmer Keith loaded the 457191 (300 gr. .45-90 bullet) in the .45 Colt. We're just trying to keep up the tradition.

w30wcf

[w30wcf]

Yance,

Using unsized .45 Colt cases with b.p. and larger diameter bullets is a great idea.....one I have used myself. I do have the LFC .45 Colt die but my fired cases run .486"-.487" at the expansion ring and the LFC die will reduce that dimension so I just use my standard Lyman .45 Colt dies to crimp.

I wish that Lee would make a .45 Colt FCD with the collet like they do for the .44-40. That works great.

I am currently using the PRS Slim 250 gr. big lube bullet and a modified RCBS and Magma 250. All hold enough lube for the trip down the 24" barrel.

I like to run the full 40 gr. charge of b.p. (usually Swiss or Schuetzen FFG) in early UMC or REM-UMC solid head button pocket (balloon head) cases for the full effect.

I have shot the .45 COlt b.p. loads out to the 300 meter steel Javelina and they do pretty well out there.


w30wcf

[scr83jp]

I purchased a bag of 100 Magtech 225gr 454casull .451diameter Solid Copper Hollow Points for $83.97 from midwayusa they've increased to $87.97.I'm going to load some for my 4 5/8" Rug BH 45lc,my 15" 454casull encore pistol & my 20" bullberrySW460 mag encore rifle.The pics of the fired bullets show the petals open.Magtech has:40 s & w, 44mag,38spec,9mm,454casull,45acp,500 S &w 3 different loadings,357 mag of Solid Copper HP ammo.