OT – What is The Difference Question?

[cshold]

About 3 days out of the yearly deer season I hunt on a US Army Depot in PA.
The only guns allowed are muzzleloaders and slug guns. (Safety reasons supposedly )
I use a full-length rifled barrel on a Browning BPS 12 ga.
I will be using the following ammo. this yr.

My question is:
Is this really any safer than using a 30-30 or 45-70 or any other rifle
Ballisticly I am not buying it.
What the **** is really going on here

[Nath]

In safety terms- absolutly no differance what so ever. The feds are trying to cater for idiots but they don't realise how resourcefull idiots really are.
We have countless examples of idiot laws. We can not even use a slug gun for deer, only the Lord knows why???

Nath.

[AJMD429]

Same as when in Indiana you couldn't use a 16" .44 Mag rifle "because it carries too far" but could use a 44 Mag bullet in a sabot 12 ga slug, or a 14" pistol or a saboted .50 cal muzzle loader... At least we got that one fixed.

[Slick13]

385 grain slug going 1900 fps? OUCH! Are you hunting deer, or elephants?!

And no, those are no "safer" than a .30-30 or .45-70.

~Michael

[Old Ironsights]

Same as when in Indiana you couldn't use a 16" .44 Mag rifle "because it carries too far" but could use a 44 Mag bullet in a sabot 12 ga slug, or a 14" pistol or a saboted .50 cal muzzle loader... At least we got that one fixed.

+1

I can't count the Hours I spent arguing ballistics with Fudds who refused to listen.

My .357 was alternately a too powerful, not powerful enough, long range, short range, high capacity, rapid fire, "it shoots through schools" gun.

Fortunately the DNR is more Sane when it comes to Science than the Fudds.

My question is:
Is this really any safer than using a 30-30 or 45-70 or any other rifle
Ballisticly I am not buying it.
What the **** is really going on here

Cas: If you want to see somthing really interesting compare the ballistic specs of a 3" Hornady SST with ANY factory tube-fed Lever cartridge &/or the Savage ML-II.

What's going on is FUDDs wanting CONTROL. That's all. You want to stir up a crapstorm? Point out that the .458 SOCOM out of an AR is no better than a Sabot Slug out of a Rifled slug gun.

[Modoc ED]

Ya oughta just feel darn fortunate that the U. S. Army allows deer hunting on their base. Why worry about the ammo allowed if it's capable of taking the game you're after and the Remington Core-Lokt Ultra slugs are more than capable of taking deer.

[HEAD0001]

You may not want to believe this, but the ammunition companies perpetuate the use of shotgun slugs. Just look at the price you paid for those loads. Then compare that price to a box of hand loaded 30-30's, or 30-06. The mfrs. make a lot of money on this so called "modern" ammo.

There is no doubt that the range on shotgun hunting has at least doubled over the last 20 years. So has basic MZ hunting. You are probably better off not to complain. When the anti's finally wake up and realize that these shotguns and MZ's are catching up with high powered rifles--well it will probably start all over again. Tom.

[Idiot]

Please don't try to convince a fed that there is no difference between a rifle and a good slug gun. They'll just ban the slug gun.

Look, you have as much chance of teaching your German Shepherd how to talk English, as you have to convince a fed he's wrong or stupid. So don't try it. Swallow hard and use what you can, kill the deer, and go home. Please.

I remember a few years back when it was popular for some gun magazines to laugh at the feds and state officials who disallowed the use of AR-15s, but condoned the use of 30-30s. The magazines writers went on and on about how stupid the feds were and, low and behold, their words eventually penetrated the feds rock solid skulls and they (the feds) began questioning the use of 30-30s. If you know more than the feds and it works to your advantage - shut up.

[Modoc ED]

The difference say between a 180gr .30-06 bullet and a .358gr shotgun slug is range.

Lets say you have a shotgun slug that starts out at the muzzle at the same fps/speed and ftlb/energy and fire them on the same plane. The shotgun slug will be bedded in/hit the ground long before the .30-06 bullet will.

[cshold]

Ya oughta just feel darn fortunate that the U. S. Army allows deer hunting on their base. Why worry about the ammo allowed if it's capable of taking the game you're after and the Remington Core-Lokt Ultra slugs are more than capable of taking deer.

"Ya oughta just feel darn fortunate that the U. S. Army allows deer hunting on their base".
Yep sure enough do, O and FYI it's not free, there making $$ from this deer hunting on "there base" that we the tax payers pay for.

"Why worry about the ammo allowed if it's capable of taking the game you're after and the Remington Core-Lokt Ultra slugs are more than capable of taking deer".
No worry here. Excuse the little man for pulling his head out of the sand scratching his a** and asking a, why is this like this question.

[cshold]

Please don't try to convince a fed that there is no difference between a rifle and a good slug gun. They'll just ban the slug gun.

Look, you have as much chance of teaching your German Shepherd how to talk English, as you have to convince a fed he's wrong or stupid. So don't try it. Swallow hard and use what you can, kill the deer, and go home. Please.
I remember a few years back when it was popular for some gun magazines to laugh at the feds and state officials who disallowed the use of AR-15s, but condoned the use of 30-30s. The magazines writers went on and on about how stupid the feds were and, low and behold, their words eventually penetrated the feds rock solid skulls and they (the feds) began questioning the use of 30-30s. If you know more than the feds and it works to your advantage - shut up.

Thanks guys, my head is now firmly placed back deep in the sand.

[El Chivo]

sounds like it's just an old law and since it was passed people have found ways around it.

[Old Ironsights]

sounds like it's just an old law and since it was passed people have found ways around it.

Like the old Indiana "shotgun only" law.

The Indiana law was established along with the reintroduction of Deer Hunting in the '50s.

They figured that folks shooting deer with pumpkinballs out of smoothbores couldn't doo too much overall damage to the reintroduced herds.

Fast forward to .72cal Rifles shooting .50 Spitzers in Sabots (modern sabot slugs) and you've got a whole different ball game... and an absurd law.

[Nath]

The difference say between a 180gr .30-06 bullet and a .358gr shotgun slug is range.

Lets say you have a shotgun slug that starts out at the muzzle at the same fps/speed and ftlb/energy and fire them on the same plane. The shotgun slug will be bedded in/hit the ground long before the .30-06 bullet will.

It's still a bloody good way though

Nath.

[morgan in nm]

Look, you have as much chance of teaching your German Shepherd how to talk English, as you have to convince a fed he's wrong or stupid. So don't try it. Swallow hard and use what you can, kill the deer, and go home. Please.

Gentleman, the problem is that by standing by and not complaining about things like this, they get accepted as permenant law. Those laws tend to get absorbed in other areas when nobody stands against them. Another thing, it is public land despite what the feds may think. If we all do nothing and accept these type of regulations, next thing you know, its like that everywhere.

[Hobie]

About 3 days out of the yearly deer season I hunt on a US Army Depot in PA.
The only guns allowed are muzzleloaders and slug guns. (Safety reasons supposedly )
I use a full-length rifled barrel on a Browning BPS 12 ga.
I will be using the following ammo. this yr.

My question is:
Is this really any safer than using a 30-30 or 45-70 or any other rifle
Ballisticly I am not buying it.
What the **** is really going on here

Prejudice and ignorance.

[Blaine]

When I was a kid begging mom for a .22, she would counter with the offer of a shotgun for hunting because it was "safer"....when I showed her the shotgun was MUCH more powerful, she nixed the .22 and the shotgun for a couple more years........

[cshold]

When I was a kid begging mom for a .22, she would counter with the offer of a shotgun for hunting because it was "safer"....when I showed her the shotgun was MUCH more powerful, she nixed the .22 and the shotgun for a couple more years........

LOL You just had to go and bring good old Mom into the mix.
Thanks brother I feel better, and not so beaten up now.

[Modoc ED]

Ya oughta just feel darn fortunate that the U. S. Army allows deer hunting on their base. Why worry about the ammo allowed if it's capable of taking the game you're after and the Remington Core-Lokt Ultra slugs are more than capable of taking deer.

"Ya oughta just feel darn fortunate that the U. S. Army allows deer hunting on their base".
Yep sure enough do, O and FYI it's not free, there making $$ from this deer hunting on "there base" that we the tax payers pay for.
So what if it's not free. At least they give ya the opportunity to hunt and so what if the tax payers are paying for it. My response to that last bit (typical non-military) is to join up and enjoy the benefits of being in the Armed forces.

"Why worry about the ammo allowed if it's capable of taking the game you're after and the Remington Core-Lokt Ultra slugs are more than capable of taking deer".
No worry here. Excuse the little man for pulling his head out of the sand scratching his a** and asking a, why is this like this question.

[cshold]

Ya oughta just feel darn fortunate that the U. S. Army allows deer hunting on their base. Why worry about the ammo allowed if it's capable of taking the game you're after and the Remington Core-Lokt Ultra slugs are more than capable of taking deer.

"Ya oughta just feel darn fortunate that the U. S. Army allows deer hunting on their base".
Yep sure enough do, O and FYI it's not free, there making $$ from this deer hunting on "there base" that we the tax payers pay for.
So what if it's not free. At least they give ya the opportunity to hunt and so what if the tax payers are paying for it. My response to that last bit (typical non-military) is to join up and enjoy the benefits of being in the Armed forces.

"Why worry about the ammo allowed if it's capable of taking the game you're after and the Remington Core-Lokt Ultra slugs are more than capable of taking deer".
No worry here. Excuse the little man for pulling his head out of the sand scratching his a** and asking a, why is this like this question.

So what if it's not free. At least they give ya the opportunity to hunt and so what if the tax payers are paying for it. My response to that last bit (typical non-military) is to join up and enjoy the benefits of being in the Armed forces.

What Hummm last time I checked I did have a DD214 around here somewhere.

[adirondakjack]

In NY's "shotgun territory", we can use a shotgun with slugs (no buckshot, wounds too many deer), but no rifles (carry too far and the terrain is often open fields). Pistol permit holders can use a contender or encore with a rifle cartridge, "beanfield" shooting off a rest from a stand, or a .38 with a 4" barrel (see buckshot rule above). But ya can't use a .357 levergun or a .30-30.....

It never did make sense to me.

[Idiot]

When I was a kid begging mom for a .22, she would counter with the offer of a shotgun for hunting because it was "safer"....when I showed her the shotgun was MUCH more powerful, she nixed the .22 and the shotgun for a couple more years........

Replace "mom" with "federal bureaucrat" and "her" and "she" with "it" and "nixed" with "banned," and you've made my point exactly. Thanks Triple T.

Look, you have as much chance of teaching your German Shepherd how to talk English, as you have to convince a fed he's wrong or stupid. So don't try it. Swallow hard and use what you can, kill the deer, and go home. Please.

Gentleman, the problem is that by standing by and not complaining about things like this, they get accepted as permenant law. Those laws tend to get absorbed in other areas when nobody stands against them. Another thing, it is public land despite what the feds may think. If we all do nothing and accept these type of regulations, next thing you know, its like that everywhere.

Read BlaineG's post. You can try and try to teach your German Shepherd how to speak English, and you won't succeed. And a German Shepherd is far easier to teach than a fed. Even so, the dog (and the fed for that matter) will eventually get tired of the instruction and bite you. Count on it.

casathahle; the rounds you mention, including the slugs, are no "safer" than each other - for either deer, bystanders, barns, or cows, etc. You're "not buying it" because you know better. Most gun and ammo restrictions make no sense, and trying to make sense of them will only give you a head ache. Good hunting.