POLITICS - I'm sure AIG will bail me out when I need it ...

[Bill in Oregon]

Doesn't it make you feel proud in our capitalist, free enterprise nation that Uncle feels so comfortable sticking his big paws into our pockets to help out huge corporations that make awful decisions? I know I am overpaid and undertaxed, so figure it a real privilege to see part of my wages being put to so much better use by Uncle and Wall Street than I could think of to use it for myself -- such as for gas, food, medical bills and a new levergun.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I think the thing that bothers me about it is that they didn't need to bail out the insurance arm of AIG which would have survived just fine. It's a typical highly regulated insurance carrier with assets separate from the free wheeling "investment" arm of AIG dealing in all of those Credit Default Swaps. I think they should have let the destructive part of AIG go ahead and self-implode. There is a lot of money riding around in those CDS vehicles though ... one of the newer derivative type instruments on the market. This failure is primarily Mr. Greenberg's doing ... opening AIG up to all kinds of riskier investments before he was forced out.

[AJMD429]

Seems like if all funds were really required (as in the old days) to be backed with gold, that none of this would be an issue. Since it's all now "imaginary" money, anything can happen.

[Old Ironsights]

And yet, people mock Ron Paul for "Fiat Nation"...

We were doomed as soon as Hamilton made Mercantilisim "official" Gooberment policy.

[bunklocoempire]

Doesn't it make you feel proud in our capitalist, free enterprise nation that Uncle feels so comfortable sticking his big paws into our pockets to help out huge corporations that make awful decisions? I know I am overpaid and undertaxed, so figure it a real privilege to see part of my wages being put to so much better use by Uncle and Wall Street than I could think of to use it for myself -- such as for gas, food, medical bills and a new levergun.

Well, see, it's like this, apparently it was forced, so maybe sympathy instead of pride.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/82083
"The government was forced to commit $85 billion," McCain said in a statement. "These actions stem from failed regulation, reckless management and a casino culture on Wall Street that has crippled one of the most important companies in America."

"Casino culture", both McCain and Obama fail to mention the Federal Reserve and the endless chips they provide through our sweat. The house wins. The house, which used to be our Nation, and is now, as the two push down our throats, the world. It's the Declaration of Independence, not inter-dependency.

Trusting Obama or McCain with United States sovereignty and security when they won't address the unconstitutional Federal Reserve is laughable. The enemy is domestic.



Bunkloco

[Ysabel Kid]

What I need is a little smiley holding a sign saying "the end is near"...

[Gun Smith]

The insurance arm of AIG had to be protected because it's failure would have created a situation MUCH worse than any brokerage failure. AIG was/is the insurer of loan packages all over the world and their failure would have created a panic wordwide that could throw the US into a depression. I do agree however, that we shouldn't keep saving these greedy CEO's and managers who were only in it for themselves and were the cause of this mess. When brokerage firms got out of the investing of client's money, (acting as brokers only) as they were originally created to do, and started using their investors money for their own investing capitol that's when this mess started. But it's too late now, and we will all pay the price because of poor government regulation of these companies activities in the late 90's to now.

[tman]

as much as we all fear big brother and big government, deregulation always makes it worse. the wealthy enjoy the protections of socialism' while the rest of us bear the burden of bailing them out. when it's our turn for help, the wealthy remind us that under a capitolistics system expect no help from us. something is wrong here. we should all play under the same rules

[Old Ironsights]

as much as we all fear big brother and big government, deregulation always makes it worse. the wealthy enjoy the protections of socialism' while the rest of us bear the burden of bailing them out. when it's our turn for help, the wealthy remind us that under a capitolistics system expect no help from us. something is wrong here. we should all play under the same rules

Not true... or only "true" to the extent that "deregulation" has never meant "no govt handouts for corps" in our Mercantilist economic system.

In a true Capitalist system, NOBODY gets "government protection" or handouts of any type. With very few exceptions, these mega corps could not survive without Govt backing... they just aren't nimble enough. They survive by being able to manipulate the money supply and weather weather downturns/their own inertia with government backing.

Take that away and everything but large specific large/heavy manufacturing would devolve to smaller, more nimble business units.

Regulation HELPS big business by making those sameregulations too onerous for small business compete.

[KirkD]

I'm starting to think that instead of investing what paltry money I have in the market or with banks, I might actually be safer if I buy land, far from any city .... decent land that you can vacation on if things get better, or live off of if things go bad.

[tman]

deregulation has allways cost the consumer more, while poviding a lesser srvice. look at cable, telephone, the airlines and energy. in every case the consumer pays more and ends up with a lesser product. i see them going after water next. sad to say, we haven't been living in a true capitialistic system for quite some time. judging by our dem and rep. presidential candidates, the countries heading more socialist no matter who we elect.

[RIHMFIRE]

an other company run by a bunch of liberals
just like fanny and freddy....clintonites

[Old Ironsights]

deregulation has allways cost the consumer more, while poviding a lesser srvice. look at cable, telephone, the airlines and energy. in every case the consumer pays more and ends up with a lesser product. i see them going after water next. sad to say, we haven't been living in a true capitialistic system for quite some time. judging by our dem and rep. presidential candidates, the countries heading more socialist no matter who we elect.

What you say makes no sense.

Regulation IS Socialisim. If you get enough Regulation of private business while pretending to have a "free market" what you end up with is Facisim (the economic system where government has 100% regulatory controll of all means of production). Regulate the consumer end too and then Facisim becomes Communisim.

[rjohns94]

KirkD, Land is always a great investment so long as you choose the right land.

[Gun Smith]

KirkD, Land can be a good investment if 3 things are remembered. Location, location, location. Over the years I bought raw land to build on, develop, and live on. The best money to be made comes from buying bare land that can be split/divided for resale. You can keep part for yourself and sell off the rest to recover all your costs and get your piece free and clear. The main problem with owning bare land is tying up capitol and carrying costs, ie. equity,taxes, interest, etc. Over time most any land that follows the cardinal rule (2nd sentence above) can return a much better profit than stocks and bonds. Remember, they stopped making land a couple of years ago.

[Charles]

To be certain the AIG bail out leaves a bad taste in everybody's mouth's. It was a combination of corporate greed and the failure of the regulatory agencies to do their jobs that causes the mess.

BUT.. if the commercial/bank insurance arm of AIG had been allowed to fall, it would cause a domino effect with hundreds if not thousands of US banks failing and their deposits are insured by the FDIC.
The cost of bailing out the FDIC would be much, much greater than the 85B loaned to AIG. At least with the AIG bailout, there is a good chance of getting the money back with interest.

The American/World banking, investing and insurance business are in bed with each other in such a convoluted way that nobody can understand it. It is all a house of cards based on credit and if you pull a big card like AIG from the stack, the whole darn things goes into the commode.

All it took was for the American artificially inflated real estate market to tank and everything else are the dominoes that fell. We are all existing on the knife edge of a world economic collapse caused by all of this mess or some other bubble to break down the line. Ron Paul did point at it and name the elephant in the room, but the question is how to unwind this basket of snakes. I for one don't have a clue and doubt if anybody else does either. The system has been allowed to mutate in ways beyond the understanding of ordinary humans.

[tman]

you are theoritically correct old ironsights. problem is this isn't now or hasen/t been a true capitalist system for a long time. deregulation, in the real world has done the opposite of the intended purpose. services go down , price goes up, in the airline, cable, telephone, and utilities. mccain said today deregulation was the major finiacial failures. i don't think ohbama will take a more conservative outlook.

[Old Ironsights]

you are theoritically correct old ironsights. problem is this isn't now or hasen/t been a true capitalist system for a long time. deregulation, in the real world has done the opposite of the intended purpose. services go down , price goes up, in the airline, cable, telephone, and utilities. mccain said today deregulation was the major finiacial failures. i don't think ohbama will take a more conservative outlook.

No he won't. And neither will further regulation help anything.

THe only thing that will help is DEregulation of everything and not only getting the government out of the way, but severing ALL ties between Corporate America and the Fed.

All of them. Big Business can't survive without the help of Government. They require sleazy backroom deals and lobbying just to exist. Make it so there is nothing to lobby FOR and then THEY will be the ones unable to compete.

It would be like pitting Michael Phelps against Michael Moore. Skinny, fast dude wins - fat dude either shapes up or blubbers & dies.

[tman]

once again, i agree. the tie between government and corporate america will never be broken. in fact, its stronger than ever. as long as government will bail them out. there might as be some safeguards built in. if the government would let the corrupt instituions fail, i would whole-heartedly agree with you 100% you and i booth know this wont happen. it hasen't happened in the recent past and it ain't gonna happen in the future.

[Blaine]

All I know is that on paper, I'm about 10 grand poorer than I was this time last year, and no one is bailing me out But ya know what? I'm not touching or changing a thing, and my fund manager will be buying up some bargins and in 10 or 15 years, I'm going to be a very happy person if there is still a USA here, and there will be.

[PaulB]

At least with the AIG bailout, there is a good chance of getting the money back with interest.

Yeah, right.

The way I look at it, any money the government has is money that will go down the rat hole.

once again, i agree. the tie between government and corporate america will never be broken. in fact, its stronger than ever. as long as government will bail them out. there might as be some safeguards built in.

You write as if someone in government is looking out for your interests. No. They are looking out for THEIR interest. Any so-called "safeguards" are laws and regulations written by the same large corporations being "regulated". The main use of such safeguards is to bar entry of competitors to the market.

Also, your dislike of "deregulation" is predictable, given what the newspapers and TV, er, I mean, Ministry of Propaganda put out about it. They increase regulation and call it "deregulation".

Look at the bright side of this bailout news. Everything government does, undermines the dollar. Soon the dollar will be toilet paper. With no real money coming in, the Empire will expire, as all empires do, and Washington DC will become a backwater.

Of course, the tough thing is surviving while all this is going on.

[Old Ironsights]

The ONLY thing the Gooberment is interested in with these "bailouts" is preventing the armed uprising that has been overdue since the Johnson Administration... which is exactly what would happen if there was another "Crash of 29". (IMO we won't make it to '29 this time...)

Worse, in an armed uprising the Lierals would lose power utterly - since they don't have guns - and would have to start over. That is TOTALLY unacceptable to the R&D Powers that Be.

Thus, we have a "bailout" that, with any luck (for the people in office/bureaucrat jobs) will keep the Uninformed States of America functioning until they are well dead.

Shows how much they really care about "the children"...

[bunklocoempire]

To be certain the AIG bail out leaves a bad taste in everybody's mouth's. It was a combination of corporate greed and the failure of the regulatory agencies to do their jobs that causes the mess.

BUT.. if the commercial/bank insurance arm of AIG had been allowed to fall, it would cause a domino effect with hundreds if not thousands of US banks failing and their deposits are insured by the FDIC.
The cost of bailing out the FDIC would be much, much greater than the 85B loaned to AIG. At least with the AIG bailout, there is a good chance of getting the money back with interest.

The American/World banking, investing and insurance business are in bed with each other in such a convoluted way that nobody can understand it. It is all a house of cards based on credit and if you pull a big card like AIG from the stack, the whole darn things goes into the commode.

All it took was for the American artificially inflated real estate market to tank and everything else are the dominoes that fell. We are all existing on the knife edge of a world economic collapse caused by all of this mess or some other bubble to break down the line. Ron Paul did point at it and name the elephant in the room, but the question is how to unwind this basket of snakes. I for one don't have a clue and doubt if anybody else does either. The system has been allowed to mutate in ways beyond the understanding of ordinary humans.

This basket of snakes can be unwound. Cold turkey? No. Gradually? Yes. What have we seen and heard about dealing with that elephant the Federal Reserve? Abolish it? Phase it out? No, the powers that be will have none of that. Instead the band-aid is more regulation, more control.

The talk of the "news", and the majority of the politicians, and the investors and the public is financial crisis, economic crisis, but what about Sovereignty crisis or Liberty crisis?

Restoring and preserving Liberty seems to be second concerning a National and "global" economic crisis. And certainly second with BOTH "major" candidates.

Hoping to get any money back from AIG & others is a little too optimistic considering our governments track record with letting things go once they've aquired "control" over them. Seems to me government would be more than willing to take a loss and keep control of the insurance game, more shady control than state regulators have now. That would be a "solution" to the health crisis wouldn't it?

The new fear presented to us is a global collapse. If the Federal Reserve is not abolished, the solution to global collapse will be unification (more unification) in the form of a currency. See the euro. The new currency will initially be based on something (combined GNP), then, as the euro has been inflated, the new currency will also be inflated.

There are folks who can and will unwind this basket of snakes. Their # 1 motive is Liberty.

I'm gonna be poor (...more poor )..Do I wanna be poor and free, or do I wanna be poor and more controlled by my own government and the world than I allready am?


Bunkloco

[tman]

not to worry. comrade bush has bailed AIG out. and after the patriot act and the invasion of iraq, i thought the man was a nazi. wow, am i stupid!!!!!!!!!

[L8agin]

Well Gun Smith you should tell that to farmers buying land in the early 80's. learned the hard way-fourtunatly on a small scale that I could servive. Had to borrow money to pay intrest. Banks then frowned heavily for that. Last piece that cost me 1850$ went to around 8-900$.
I think your talking speculation and weather it's overpriced land or an overpriced home, it can go up or down.
Course now the asseser thinks it's worth over 3000 and would possibly bring that. Just remember in addition to a moving up and possibly down value you have to pay property tax and in all reality should have liabilty insurance for your own protection if a tresspasser stubs their toe on your property.
Realestate of any kind can and has gone down before
L8