Ball vs Extruded powder

[Slick13]

I've read various things (rumors) about ball vs. extruded powder... ball is dirtier, ball is more effected by tempature, you should use magnum primers with ball, they're both as accurate off the bench but extruded burns differently and will be more accurate offhand/etc. Now, I do believe that ball is dirtier, but what are real life experiences when it comes to the other comments about ball powder?

I've been working with BLC-2 and RL 15 in the .25-35 and .30-30, and have gotten good results with both, though BLC-2 is probably slightly ahead when it comes to velocity, accuracy, and consistancy. W760 seems to be very accurate in my .25-35 also, but is well behind the other two powders in velocity. I've never taken loads with these three powders and compared them at temps below freezing. H380, IMR 4320, and Reloder 10X, are three other powders I'm considering trying out in my .25-35 Win. I'm inclined to stick with BLC-2 and RL 15 in the .30-30.

So, would the advice for hunting loads (that may be used in temps ranging from 10 to 60 degrees) be to stick with extruded powders, or not worry about the type and go with what's giving me the accuracy and velocity I want?

Thanks,

~Michael

[RSY]

Ramshot is a relatively new product line that appears to provide the best of both worlds. They are ball powders, so they meter great. They also ignite fine with regular primers, burn very clean, and are largely temperature insensitive. John Barsness is a big proponent of them.

http://www.ramshot.com/powders/

Scott

[Marc]

I have never heard of the thing about off hand accuracy being better with stick powders. I shot High Power Silhouette yesterday and I don't believe I can blame a single miss on the 760 and 748 I had loaded. For some strange reason all the misses seemed to happen when the cross hairs weren't on the target! The thing about magnum primers is a myth with newer ball powders. The early ball powders that you still may be able to buy as surplus did better with a hotter primer apparently. I read that Winchester primers had a special additive to better ignite ball powders but that current ball powders do not need a special primer. I use Winchester WLR primers because they are the cheapest here and they seem to work fine.

I like ball powders especially for high volume reloading. They meter so nice I like to use them for my match ammo. For hunting ammo I use whatever works the best. I don't know how much the temp would effect your ammo. I doubt it would be very much at normal levergun ranges out to 200 yards or so. I don't think RL-15 or 4320 are insensitive to temperature either.

[J Miller]

Michael,

My own limited experiences with ball vs extruded powders comes from my shooting in Arizona from the late 1960s to around 1998.
I've used a lot of Win 748 and 760. Some Hercules RL and some Dupont IMR powders. I've never found ball powders to be dirtier than extruded nor have I needed magnum primers. I've loaded ball in 30-30, 308/7.62NATO, 303 British, and 30-06.

As for the temperature sensitive thing, in AZ my shooting ranged from blistering hot - literally, to freezing cold. I used the same loads all year long and never had any trouble with the exception of one time.
It was mid summer, 100+ in the shade and I wasn't in the shade. I left a box of 30-30 ammo set on a steel folding table in the direct sunlight while I shot up some other ammo. When I loaded it, the ammo was too hot to touch, the rifle was skin burning hot from just having shot a magazine full through it and the combination made for some really high pressures. Cratered primers, difficult extraction, that kind of thing.
After that I made sure to keep my ammo out of the direct sunlight and not on the steel table.

Other than this, I've never had reason to worry about the possible temperature sensitivity of ball powders.

Like I said these are only my limited experiences. I'm sure someone with a lab and a million dollars to spend could prove any thing they want to prove. All I know is that with normal pressure loads I've never had one lick of trouble with them.

Joe

[Griff]

I tend to disagree with the statement that extruded powders NEED magnum primers. Yes, in some cartridges, certainly that is true, but in my experience with the .30-30 or even the .30-06 that isn't. One of the earliest successes I had in the .30WCF in terms of accuracy was with IMRs 4320 in my mdl 64A. Now I think I picked that on the recommendation of someone else, and the fact that it showed higher velocities in the Lyman 43rd reloading manual. When I got my first .30WCF Winchester carbine, trhose same loads failed to give comparable accuracy.

Finally, on the advice of the old guy running the range, I tore off the magazine, forearm, bands, etc and fired the gun as a single shot with the receiver being my front rest. No stresses on the barrel except the bullet traveling thru it. Ol' Charlie then handed me some of HIS handloads using the same 150gr Sierra bullet, CCI primer and RE7 powder. Viola, groups shrunk back to the 1- 1-½" the mdl 64A was giving me with the IMR4320 powder. Assemble the rifle and groups stayed about the same. The only discernable difference... the powder.

Not that IMR4320 isn't a fine powder, and isn't capable of accuracy, but... didn't like my .30-30 20" carbine as well as it liked that 24" rifl
Just as with anything else, from bullets, brass, powder, load density, primer to seating depth, individual guns will react differently to changes in any of the above. Some will provide a barely noticeable improvement or degradation, other it's like you shooting .22s down that .30 caliber barrel.

In the nearly 40 years that I've been reloading, I've come to the conclusion that I should take NOTHING for granted, test everything until I come upon a combination of factors that shoot adequately well out of an individual gun.

Truly, I believe the only thing I would say with certainty about the difference between ball and extruded powders, is that the ball powder should meter with more consistency than an extruded powder.