Winchester 94 32-40 problem

[brokenhand]

I recently picked up this rifle and some John Wayne ammo. The rifle checked out fine, made in 1908 and shoots great except for one problem, I can't get the empty shells to extract after firiing. I did have one primer and only one, out of the few that I fired back out. This is my first 32-40 and I would like to keep it. Any reason you can see that might cause this problem? Thanks in advance
Jim

[morgan in nm]

Welcome, someone will be along shortly with some experience on this but, have you checked to see if the chamber is clean and free of pits? I have never owned a 32-40 yet but that is definately on my wish list.

[O.S.O.K.]

Is the extractor getting a good grip? If not, you might tap out the two roll pins that hold it in and remove, clean it and the channel and inspect the end to be sure it's still got the proper angle. If its good, then replace otherwise a replacement would be called for. If the cartridges are sticking in the chamber, then you may just need to polish the chamber as it may have a little corrosion or a little burr - it doesn't take much at all.

Also, what do the cases look like when they come out? Are they in spec? Are there any signs of friction or marks? That will give you a clue as well.

Oh, and welcome to the board.

[brokenhand]

They feed and extract just fine until they are fired, then I have to beat them out with a hammer and a ramrod. I will double check the chamber tomorrow. I had it checked and they told me it was safe to shoot before I bought it Do you think it could have excessive headspce.? That is what I first thought when I saw the first one with the primer pushed out, but after that the only problem I had is after firing and the case sticking.
Thanks for all the replies.
Jim

[KCSO]

My best guess is swelled chamber. There are possible repairs if the swell is near the breech but if it is in the front 1/2 of the chamber you willl need a new barrel.

Safe to fire and workinng condition are not always the same thing.

[brokenhand]

Thanks for that reply and all the replies. I going to try some reloads I'm putting together this weekend to rule out the ammunition problem.
Jim

[J Miller]

Just to interject my thoughts here; that rifle is 100 years old. It may be in otherwise good shape, but if modern ammo jams in the chamber and has to be pounded out, I would suggest not shooting another round of any kind of ammo until the problem has been diagnosed and corrected.

A good place to start would be to take the rifle apart so you can visually examine the chamber. Can't do that properly with the gun assembled. If it's pitted, corroded, rusted or really dirty, it might clean up OK, if it's swelled like KCSO mentioned then you're only going to cause yourself more trouble.

Modern factory ammo is loaded somewhat on the light side, so unless you're going to load squibs you'll most likely have the same situation with normal reloads.

Personally I think I'd have a chamber cast done. That will tell you a great deal all at once.

JMHO

Joe

[O.S.O.K.]

Joe, if he does a cast of the chamber and it's got a swell.... well that plug ain't comin out without a big fight and then it'll be of no more use in diagnosing the problem than the fired cases.

[KCSO]

To detect a swelled chamber clean the chamber well with a brush and then use NEW cases. I like to use light loads for this but use what you have, shoot one shot and tap out the case and then inspect it under magnification. You will be able to see scratches and deformation where the case expanded and then had to be forced out. If it is in the back portion of the case, so that at least 1 /2" of neck is unaffected the solution is to take off the barrel and drill it out oversize on a lathe and thread in and either solder or acraglass in a chamber liner and then recut the chamber. I refuse to do this job if the bulge is too far up the case as then you have no case gripping the original chamber and I don't want all the backthrust on the liner. I will note however that a lot of the Spanish M93's were converted from 7mm to 308 in just this fashion and I have yet to see one come out.

[Malamute]

Can you post a picture of the fired cases? That would tell much. It sounds like a rough chamber.


Headspace problems wont make shells stick, the primer backing out some is fairly common with 94's, even with good headspace, or very close to right on. It doens't really cause any problems, the fact that the primer is staying out means the shell is gripping the chamber walls and there isnt much bolt thrust. If there was, the primer would reseat itself.

[J Miller]

Joe, if he does a cast of the chamber and it's got a swell.... well that plug ain't comin out without a big fight and then it'll be of no more use in diagnosing the problem than the fired cases.

Yeah, you're right. I didn't think my comment far enough through. My bad.

Joe

[Griff]

Welcome to the Forum. Sorry it was trouble that brought ya. Take a couple of the fired cases & roll 'em on a known flat surface, like glass table top. Leave the rims hang off the edge, if you feel a "bump", you might have a bulge. Inspect that area for any longitudinal scratches in those nickel plated cases in the area of yer "bump".

Does "hammerin'" out fired cases distort them? If not, try using something like an o-ring pick, pull up on the extractor with the bolt as closed yer tool will let it. If the bolt rises enough allow the extractor to slip off the rim. If not, then making sure the extractor jaw ain't rounded, bent or deformed would be next.

If the extractor appears squared away... wait. No offense, but not knowin' yer level of experience, let me back up a step or two. Compare your cartridge dimensions to: .32-40 Loads & Cartridge Drawing. Next, is the extractor actually going over the top of the rim and engaging it for extraction. That should be easy, as otherwise the extractor is broke, or the bolt ain't closin' all the way... but... one never knows

Ok, back to where I was... remove the bolt, extractor and clean thoroughly. Reassemble and test. Hmmm... maybe I should write an article on that... I didn't find one readily, maybe someone else can provide a link.

If you find the problem was one of the above, except that broken extractor thing (that you might wanna keep to yourself), let us know.

Also,



Yea, we all know what one looks like, but that don't mean we don't like to drool over others!

[brokenhand]

I'm not sure how to post pictures, so if someone would be kind enough to send me their e-mail address, I will send them photos tomorrow. There are no bulges in the shell body that I can find, but the cannelure ring is almost gone and the only scratches run arond the shell where the bullet use to be. Thanks again
Jim

[Griff]

I'm not sure how to post pictures, so if someone would be kind enough to send me their e-mail address, I will send them photos tomorrow. There are no bulges in the shell body that I can find, but the cannelure ring is almost gone and the only scratches run arond the shell where the bullet use to be. Thanks again
Jim

Jim,
Our moderators/administrators think of everything: Check out the instructions on posting pics here: Picture Posting Instruction. No excuses, mate!

Yep, like to see pics of the fired cases before sizing. Depending on how deep those scratches are at the case mouth, sounds like a rough chamber or it's just rough enough with a weak extractor. Might still wanna break out the micrometer and measure how much that case mouth is expanding over the loaded round.

[mescalero1]

I have read posting pictures and still can not do it, the instruction seems long & convoluted

[brokenhand]

Well I tried. Finally got to pictures up.My slow dial up takes forever It is slow, I haven't even seen the download screen.
Jim