OT-Finally! An end to the AK vs AR debate...

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:15 pm

http://www.mouseguns.com/compare.htm

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:17 pm

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH !!!!!!

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:27 pm

Thats awesome

.

model55 · Post by **model55** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:14 pm

Must be my age showing I actually agreed with that!

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:24 pm

i so agree!!

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:25 pm

Have seen that before, still very funny and true.

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:30 pm

Makes sense to me. I have tried the "12 mile" sight .. it's close!

don Tomás · Post by **don Tomás** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:15 pm

I've never seen that - what a hoot! Thanks...
Tom

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:24 pm

Andrew wrote:Have seen that before, still very funny and true.

I knew you'd love that one Andrew!!!

It is pretty darn funny!!!

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:34 am

I only have one question... How would you ever break a Mosin Nagant?

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:51 am

*Icy Stare* at awp101...

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:51 am

Rusty wrote:I only have one question... How would you ever break a Mosin Nagant?

I don't know, I've never even tried putting a saddle on mine...

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:32 am

"Fight the urge to dig a trench in the back yard" That's the best line I've read in a long time!!

jb

Doc Hudson · Post by **Doc Hudson** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:28 am

awp101 wrote:http://www.mouseguns.com/compare.htm

Yep, the good old Mossy Nagger!

Ugly as sin and just as durable!

Of course none of them are as good as a Sharps or a good Rolling Block.

Doc Hudson · Post by **Doc Hudson** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:30 am

Rusty wrote:I only have one question... How would you ever break a Mosin Nagant?

Throwing it under a tank or caterpillar's treads will usually do the job (if the ground is frozen hard), but I think a large fire is about the only other way to do it.

WCF3030 · Post by **WCF3030** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:42 am

Rusty wrote:I only have one question... How would you ever break a Mosin Nagant?

Sneek into "Modour", too "Mount Doom" and throw it into "The Pit Of Fire".

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:33 pm

Favorite Photos of the Nagant

donw · Post by **donw** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:19 pm

...great comparison...

i must admit, my mosin is difficult to operate under the best of conditions, and is 50 MOA but it is definitely unbreakable with out a great effort...and it was not listed among the greatest infantry rifles in the NRA's rifleman...geeee they listed the m-16 as fourth, i figure the mosin ranks as good as it...they list the ak second best, by the way...

505stevec · Post by **505stevec** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:48 pm

I have all three and totally agree!!! I bought the Nagant for my truck gun because it was so cheap. Wow what fun to shoot. Now my son who loves Assault type weapons loves this old carbine. The bummer is the ammo is going up!

cas · Post by **cas** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:38 pm

The "Safety" and "mag" ones always bugged me, since rifle has both a safety and a magazine, it seems to be written by a firearms neophyte. As does the description of recoil.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:44 pm

Good one - for sure.

John in MS · Post by **John in MS** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:12 pm

Hilarious!!! I really enjoyed that!!

John

don Tomás · Post by **don Tomás** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:01 pm

Mosin Nagant, very popular with the ladies...

SJPrice · Post by **SJPrice** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:22 pm

I must really be old and or a levergunner. I thought this was a discussion about the difference between Alaska and Arkansas

don Tomás · Post by **don Tomás** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:17 pm

SJPrice wrote:I must really be old and or a levergunner. I thought this was a discussion about the difference between Alaska and Arkansas

Doc Hudson · Post by **Doc Hudson** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:38 pm

cas wrote:The "Safety" and "mag" ones always bugged me, since rifle has both a safety and a magazine, it seems to be written by a firearms neophyte. As does the description of recoil.

By Magazine, I believe he was talking about those long, bulky, detachable things hanging beneath EBR's, not fixed box or tubular magazines.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:25 am

SJPrice wrote:I must really be old and or a levergunner. I thought this was a discussion about the difference between Alaska and Arkansas

It's even more confusing over on Cast Boolits where I crossposted it as:

MN Ends the AK vs AR debate...

I mean, after all, MN Stands between them....

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:51 am

don Tomás wrote:

Women snipers; you don't see that every day.

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:56 am

donw wrote: ...great comparison...

i must admit, my mosin is difficult to operate under the best of conditions, and is 50 MOA but it is definitely unbreakable with out a great effort...and it was not listed among the greatest infantry rifles in the NRA's rifleman...geeee they listed the m-16 as fourth, i figure the mosin ranks as good as it...they list the ak second best, by the way...

What on this green planet did they put above the Kalashnikov?

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:05 am

Andrew wrote:
donw wrote:...
What on this green planet did they put above the Kalashnikov?

The M1 Garand IIRC.

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:14 am

Old Ironsights wrote:
Andrew wrote:
donw wrote:...
What on this green planet did they put above the Kalashnikov?
The M1 Garand IIRC.

Ohh, good gravy. Pah-leese

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:22 am

Andrew wrote:
Old Ironsights wrote:
The M1 Garand IIRC.
Ohh, good gravy. Pah-leese

http://www.nrapublications.org/TAR/10riflesMILIT.asp

Explain please? I would have maybe gone with the FN, Galil or M14, but the Garand does have a certain cachet... having been the single best/most effective personal arm of WWII.

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:50 am

Old Ironsights wrote: Explain please?

Are people still shooting M1's today? That's a good indication of what works. The AK works(KISS). I like the M1, I just don't think it made as big of an impact on things as the AK has. I can't prove it, that's just how I feel.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:58 am

Andrew wrote:
Old Ironsights wrote: Explain please?
Are people still shooting M1's today? That's a good indication of what works. The AK works(KISS). I like the M1, I just don't think it made as big of an impact on things as the AK has. I can't prove it, that's just how I feel.

Here is the fundamental difference, and why the AK is #2:

At the time of its adoption in 1936, the M1 was truly the most advanced weapon system ever fielded. It was the first successful design capable of firing a full-power rifle cartridge via semi-automatic operation. As such, it can be argued that the M1 represented the first time America sent its boys to war with the best infantry rifle in the world, as the United States was the only nation to fully arm its troops with a self-loading design. Simply stated, the M1 was without equal on the battlefields of World War II.

The AK has, for its entire existence, had other firearms that were comperable. Better in some areas and worse in others, but always comperable.

That was not the case with the M1. Thus, the AK is #2.

cas · Post by **cas** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:38 am

Andrew wrote: I like the M1, I just don't think it made as big of an impact on things as the AK has.

If not for the M1, we'd all have ended up with Mausers.

The M1 has a proven track record.. as much as I love the M14, it can't hold a candle to the FAL for the same reason. In truth, I think the greatest battle rifle of all time, by far and away is the Short magazine Lee Enfield. To this day, some 100 years later, they're still being put to use all over the world.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:02 pm

cas wrote:
Andrew wrote: I like the M1, I just don't think it made as big of an impact on things as the AK has.
If not for the M1, we'd all have ended up with Mausers.

The M1 has a proven track record.. as much as I love the M14, it can't hold a candle to the FAL for the same reason. In truth, I think the greatest battle rifle of all time, by far and away is the Short magazine Lee Enfield. To this day, some 100 years later, they're still being put to use all over the world.

See, another smart guy.

No. 1: U.S. Rifle, Cal. .30, M1 “Garand”
No. 2: The Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK-47)
No. 3: Mauser 98
No. 4: U.S. M16
No. 5: British Pattern 1853 Enfield Rifle-Musket
No. 6: Lee-Enfield
No. 7: StG44
No. 8: FN Fusil Automatique Leger (FAL)
No. 9: Dreyse Model 1841 “Needle Gun”
No. 10: The Henry Rifle

But No Mosin...

Hillbilly · Post by **Hillbilly** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:10 pm

going for dry britches and stuff to clean my monitor now.......

Great!

Hill

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:52 pm

Yup.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:29 pm

Not trying to be a jerk here but ever try to hit a six foot target at 1000 yds with an AK?
I've done it with an M1. Best I've ever done w/ an AK is hit a woodchuck at 300. And that was pure luck.

The M1 and it's successor the M-14 are two of the best long range auto loaders ever. The FN FAL a close
second.

Shoot an M1/ M14 wth Nat. Match sights and a heavy barrel and you'll see. Ain't nothn' better
This side of a Sharps

Best shooting Military bolt guns I've ever owned are a Remington 03A3 and a Model 39 Finn Mosin Nagant.

jb

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:57 pm

In the original thread from another board that prompted that link, the original poster was asking what's so great about the Nagant. I think this pretty much sums it up:

1. It's 30-06 power for $50-100
2. It's battle proven
3. It's proven to work in -70 winter to 120 degree tropic temperatures
4. It's the longest serving bolt action MBR in history by a major power.
5. It served in all the great conflicts in the 20 century (history, lots of it)
6. Many are in great shape
7. Huge amounts of variation in the design, it's truly the best one gun collection you can collect.
8. Surplus ammo is relatively cheap and available
9. It is made to take abuse and keep going
10. It fits with the Soviet rifle theme many AK collectors seem to center on.
11. Did I mention all this for about $50-100?