OT - Empolyment/Job Board Rant

[Old Ironsights]

Ok... Let's look at this Job Listing:

Division: USS
Location: GARY, IN US
Travel Involved: 0-10%
Job Type: Full Time
Job Level: Entry
Education Required: Bachelor's Degree or Equivalent
Category: Logistics

Requirements:
QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED: Qualified candidates should possess a four-year degree in Logistics, Operations Management or Business Management, or at least two years equivalent college studies; and one to three years experience in a transportation field would be a plus. This position requires sound computer, analytical and communications skills. Individual will be required to work all shifts, weekends and holidays as scheduled on a monthly rotation.

Ok. Submit Resume per Website. Cool. Oh, wait, here's some additional questions...

I-9 status... OK, no problem there.
Am I a Criminal... no... Ok there...

Do I have TWO TO THREE YEARS PROFESSIONAL RAILROAD EXPERIENCE????? Where did that come from? That wasn't in the "Required Qualifications"... ok, Check NO.

Entry Level Management Job. Degree or Equivelent required. No problem right?

As if.

"Your responses to our initial questions for this position indicate that your academic background and/or your experience do not meet the minimum requirements for this role. Thank you for your interest in United States Steel Corporation."

How can these people claim this is an "Entry Level" Job?

Jerks.

[Hobie]

I applied for a job (when I retired) about 7½ years ago as a debt collector for a large printing firm. Their requirement was for a BA/BS. Didn't care what the degree was for, only wanted a degree. The thing was that in 5 years they had had 6 people in the position and it had been unfilled for 8-10 months total time. The last 'qualified' person they'd had had simply put the collections in his desk and apparently done nothing as he'd made no collections other than those who'd simply paid their bill upon receipt. I'd heard that when they finally fired him they found paperwork (yeah, I don't get that either) for over $1,000,000 in uncollected debt in his desk.

So, after a couple of calls I wrangled an interview. The interviewer and I had a long talk, I even made one collection call (I requested a chance to demonstrate my ability) and got a promise to pay immediately (claimed the bill had been overlooked) which I later heard was in fact payed. Then, the interviewer went over the requirements including the degree. Turned me down flat. I pointed out that I'd already done more than the last degreed employee had done in a whole year (and that I'd done my homework on them) just to demo my skills. Pointed out that I would NOT require health care from them (due to my military benefits) saving them money. The job pays a big $28K a year. Nope, need that degree. Non-negotiable.

Since then they've upped their turnover rate to average nearly 2 per year and over 50% of their accounts are 180 days past due. This can't be a good way to do business.

So, I understand your frustration but...

Sometimes you're just better off not getting what you "want".

[Old Ironsights]

Meh. I'm over 8 years now "not getting what I want" - i.e. a job that actually pays me enough to keep Sallie Mae off my back - mostly because, despite having the much vaunted and criminally over-sold, bait & switch "bachelor's degree" the only "experience" I have is Military. "Temp work" (10 years of it) &/or 5 years of "working for daddy" doesn't count for squat.

[RSY]

Meh. I'm over 8 years now "not getting what I want"... i.e. a job that actually pays me enough to keep Sallie Mae off my back.

You ain't alone, compadre. You ain't alone.

Scott

[pharmseller]

I'm in a position where a four year degree is required. Let me tell you, I know some "educated" people who are underqualified to wash my car!
A good story: four weeks before my wife got her degree she answered an ad for a pharmaceutical sales job (my current industry). Right there on her resume under Education it said Bachelor of Arts, Business Management, expected August, 1999, about 6 weeks hence. Plain as day. She made a point to discuss it with the hiring managers she spoke with during the interview process.
The hiring managers really liked her and kept passing her up the chain of command. Finally, she met with the Regional Director. His first question was about her degree. Do you currently have a degree? No, I graduate in six weeks. Then why are we even talking to you? Well, because you called me to come in for this interview. Come back after you graduate.

Her first call post-graduation was to the hiring manager. He set up an interview that Monday with the Regional Director and my wife took the job. The practical difference in her skills and abilities? None. The difference in her marketability? Huge.

Q

[Old Ironsights]

... The practical difference in her skills and abilities? None. The difference in her marketability? Huge.

Thus far the only difference in marketability has been to wreck my credit rating...

Degrees may be da shizzle for a 20somthing but to get a BA at 30 - if you are not already employed - is IMEX a huge waste of time and money.

[Blackhawk]

Meh. I'm over 8 years now "not getting what I want" - i.e. a job that actually pays me enough to keep Sallie Mae off my back - mostly because, despite having the much vaunted and criminally over-sold, bait & switch "bachelor's degree" the only "experience" I have is Military. "Temp work" (10 years of it) &/or 5 years of "working for daddy" doesn't count for squat.

Sorry to laugh OI but you and I are in the same boat. When your degree works against you it can be frustrating as well as those that don't have one. I have an AAS yet handle more than a BS level position. I'm on the job market as well.

Oh yeah, oh Sallie Mae gets around. She found me real quick when I graduated.

Hang in there my friend. Trust in the Lord and he will guide and keep you safe.

Johnny

[Blaine]

Work is tough for Enlisted NCOs when they get out........I've been luck enough to be with the same job for 10 years, but I've only worked up to about 20 and hour..Now, I know that's good money for some places, but not here.....If I didn't have my Army retirement and benefits comeing in, I'd be a real poor puppy.

[Old Ironsights]

What really sucks is that I was making more money in 1994 - before I got "smart" and took the line-o-bull that I needed a degree to be able to support my wife in her disability - than I do now...in fact, half again as much if you use Constant Dollars.

Man, if I could make $52K now ($35K in '94) I'd be in hog heaven. Less than $30K just doesn't cut it - not with school loans owed to the usurious criminals that run Sallie Mae... the only loan you can't refi (I'm at 8.5%) or bankrupt out of...

[Andrew]

I know too many people that get jobs out of college and then get sick of it only to take what-ever within the first 5-10 years. I know alot of people that get degrees cause they know how to cram before a test. My old girlfriend was an A+ student in high school, I was a C+ student. I knew so much more than she did after school it was sad. Difference: I learned, she crammed. I can still remember things from school cause I learned it. It is in my brain and I call recall it and use it.

Side note, I get tired of people asking me if my job is "what you went to school for?". That irks me as a question, but also, when they disagree with my answer(which is yes).

[dr walker]

OI,
The answer is self-employment. I have been self-employed for the last ten years. I do not make much money compared to peers, but I have way more time to take care of my family and home. When needed I have taken night shift jobs (stocking groceries, nursing homes) to make ends meet.

I have never specialized in any field (specialization is for insects). For instance, this last week I mowed 4 lawns, installed base board moldings in a remodeled bathroom, trimmed up a hedge and trees, delivered a huge television and I am sure I am forgetting something. Here's the kicker I am a stay-at-home Dad who homeschools his 9 year old daughter. I make about as much as my wife (40 hour work week).

It took me a long time to decide to work for myself. I payed off my student loans about 6 years ago, bloody hell.
Set goals. Seek opportunities. Always do your best work.
These are the three lessons I learned from my step-father.

OI I am sorry if this comes off as bad advice, I just feel it is important.

[Old Ironsights]

OI,
The answer is self-employment. I have been self-employed for the last ten years. I do not make much money compared to peers, but I have way more time to take care of my family and home. When needed I have taken night shift jobs (stocking groceries, nursing homes) to make ends meet.

I have never specialized in any field (specialization is for insects). For instance, this last week I mowed 4 lawns, installed base board moldings in a remodeled bathroom, trimmed up a hedge and trees, delivered a huge television and I am sure I am forgetting something. Here's the kicker I am a stay-at-home Dad who homeschools his 9 year old daughter. I make about as much as my wife (40 hour work week).

It took me a long time to decide to work for myself. I payed off my student loans about 6 years ago, bloody hell.
Set goals. Seek opportunities. Always do your best work.
These are the three lessons I learned from my step-father.

OI I am sorry if this comes off as bad advice, I just feel it is important.

Ya know Doc, I'd do that or any of a dozen similar things in a heartbeat if I weren't the sole breadwinner - if only to set my own hours.

But my disabled wife doesn't/can't work enough to bring in more than about $200/wk. I/we must have a steady income. That's why I sucked up what pride I had, stopped Temping and went to "work" for my father as nepotistically overpaid general office monkey. A thouroughly dead-end, mind numbing job where I will be lucky if I don't get caught in the undertow as his bad business decisions (that I can't change) collapse the business around my/our heads. (Though I do get to spend a lot of time on the Forum... not much else for me to do except work the Job Boards day in and day out... for the last 5 years... )

I learned a long time ago - mostly from watching my father and seeing certain similarities - that I'm not entrepreneur material. I'm a grunt - albeit an overeducated one. I do my best work when give an order and let alone to complete it. Makes me a good employee, but a lousy customer-relations/sales person. I just don't have the patience, stomache or personality to deal well with idiots... i.e. most of modern urban humanity.

The maddeningly absurd thing about it is, if I were a rat fink, divorced my wife and packed up my guns I could have a couple of very lucrative &/or interesting jobs... but homey don't play that.

Decency gets screwed until the end.

[Andrew]

OI you sound similar to me. I work away from the public and do a good job of it. I don't do "people" as well as I do more conventional "work". Just my nature. I also beleive it's good that you have identified something that's not "your niche". It makes the peices of the puzzle come together easier, IMHO. Remember "...know yourself and your enemy, and you will have victories for a hundred battles...." Or something really close....

[jeepnik]

Some times it can take years to gain what is called "work experience". Basically, companies want a degreed person, but don't want to pay for it. So they pull out the "experience" card. When I was a younster, I had a plan. Do a hitch in the military, get out, start college while applying to a firefighter job. Sometimes life sucks. Did the hitch, but picked up a couple of scars. Funny how municipalities will give you credit for military service, but even when you pass their physical tests, won't hire you because of "previous medical conditions". So I had to do an about face. Ended up with a degree in chemistry. Looked at the petrochemical industry. Ran into the same "work experience" issue. But He was on my side. I went to work for a small oil company. Family owned. Good people. I'd be there today if it was still there. Then I changed "careers" again. Finally started my own small business. Sometimes it hard, but it's mine.

I guess what I'm getting at is this, keep applying, heck keep applying at the same companies. On your resume, do everything you can to "not" have any employment holes. Even if it means doing something you think is below you. I'd rather hire someone who keeps employed than someone with degrees and no signs that they are willing to work. And here's one other tip. Look for any, no mater how far fetched they seem, certificates or licenses, you can obtain. Many times you can take short courses that allow you to "test" for these. The thing that got me into the oil business was a "Steam Engineers" license.

[piller]

I was lucky to get into Pharmacy when I did. The schools of Pharmacy are raising the requirements to where a 4.0 isn't really good enough, and the graduates are the type who can cram for a test and actually learn nothing. When I graduated, I was at useful skill level on the job in about 2 months. Nowadays it is a year or more for the average graduate. I personally do not find that a degree is the only way to tell if a person can do the job. I have a Technician who has been a Tech. for about 15 years and she has learned enough that she can teach the graduates how to do the job. She has learned from the older Pharmacists about drug metabolism, interactions, and such to an amount that she knows more than the graduates with degrees. The Liberal Arts degreed people who are running businesses in today's world are, in my opinion, not worth what they are being paid, but the degree is what they know.

[tman]

sad, but it's the sign of the times. surplus of qualified, over-qualified applicants, not enough dececent paying jobs. employers' can choose a younger, least qualified applicant cause they can get them cheaper. its the bottom line that's important. businesses' can't control energy, raw material prices and tax rates. labor is a commidity to be bought and sold to the lowest bidder. i've been in your shoe's before. i took low paying jobs in order to gain skills and experience. you may have have to go back to school, even if you have unpaid school loans now. good luck and keep a positive attiitude.

[Kansas Ed]

Well, let me tell you MY story....cause I've been there..done that and it hurts. I had great experience. Machinist..CNC/NC machinist, then worked in Production Control for a good sized aircraft company. But the high stress of the last position caused me to reassess my priorities. I had no degree, but am above average mentally and physically, fast learner, responsible, dedicated, etc. etc. I quit my PC job in the spring of 2001 with a plan to take the summer off and look for something better in the fall. Well when 9-11 happened Wichita died. Extreme unemployment. Then we found out we were expecting our second child. I opted to stay home and do the "house-husband" deal. I started taking night classes at 38 years old to finish my degree. Got the paper at 42 years old. Was I employable? No...see if I had been a woman and had stayed home for 5 years with a young child I could have gotten work, but it's just too weird for a man to do that. Sexism in reverse. I even had one HR rep tell me that. When several buddies at one company complained and stomped their feet just to get me an interview I finally got called. When they offered me the position I was offered a salary and package that was flat embarrassing. But I took it, knowing that a little recent experience would help. Now, I'm trying to make up for the losses that I incurred with my low starting salary, and climb the pay ladder just to get where I should have started at. It's a really tough climb, and it's the HR departments that are the major block. Sometimes you have to take something which is insulting just to get your foot in the door. One other thing, DON"T give them your previous salary history, no matter how much they push. If they are interested they will call, if they weren't then they didn't need to know to begin with.

Good Luck
Ed

[Bogie35]

What bothers me is to see three 16 year olds at the fast food joint getting $6/hr each to do work that one full grown 40 year old man could do for $18/hr. Sixteen year olds don't NEED income. They may WANT video games, but they surely don't need them. A 40 year old man with a family NEEDS income! And why is it that kids don't have paper routes anymore? Nowadays you only see adults with paper routes desperately trying to make ends meet. What a mess!

I feel for you OI. Hang in there. Maybe God is saving a really special miracle for you and the wife. I hope so.

bogie

[kirkwood]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the job listing. It says right there in black and white that 1 to 3 years experience in transportation is a plus, and they asked if you had that experience. Even for entry level jobs, a person with some experience will win out over someone with zero experience, all else being equal. If you don't like working your way up, then start your own business.

[Old Ironsights]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the job listing. It says right there in black and white that 1 to 3 years experience in transportation is a plus, and they asked if you had that experience. Even for entry level jobs, a person with some experience will win out over someone with zero experience, all else being equal. If you don't like working your way up, then start your own business.

Ah, but there's the rub. I DO have 2+ years of "transportation" experience, just not RAILROAD experience.

If they had said RAILROAD I wouldn't have bothered. But that's not what they said.

And frankly, I've been trying since 1998 (my Junior year) to "work my way up". I'm 40, not some wet behind the ears 22y/o college kid. But having graduated 10 years "later" than the "entry level" workforce means that, to date, every place I've appied to thinks I'm too old for a "work my way up" position, but too inexperienced/unqualified for anything else.

But thanks for expressing the HR industry position.

[Lobo]

Hi All,

At 45 years old, I was tired of teaching high schooler who didn't want to learn, so I went back to grad school and earned my MBA....Masters of Business Administration. I figured a foot in the door for a career change. Biggest mistake of my life!! I gave up two years of my life, went $20,000 in debt, and after a year of job searching (and 1200 resumes later), not even an interview!!! I'm nearly 60 still paying off the college loans and back teaching high schoolers who don't want to learn. In all my years, I've gotten exactly one job through job services, everything else came to me by word of mouth.

Best of luck, good hunting, and God's blessings!!