Politics- Met McCain today

[Old Time Hunter]

Took a ride today down to Racine, Wisconsin and had the opportunity to meet John and Cindy McCain. Other than the normal political hogwash, that I forced myself to look past, I came away with a more positive view of John McCain's ideology. John McCain, without any provocation, made a comment regarding his views on the second ammendment that made the positions of the NRA more in Obama's camp than Mr. McCain's. Sen. McCain not only professed that to him, the 2nd Ammendment did not only profess the right of all citizens to possess firearms, but it should be a responsibility to. He was pretty adamant regarding his position also that all restrictions placed on type of guns, or ammunition, or descriptions of certain magazines are just attempts by those that want to take away the right to bear arms, to use back door legislation to circumvent the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Oh yea, is his wife sharp!!!

[Chuck 100 yd]

His interview with local talk radio host Lars Larson this week also showed him in good light as far as gun ownership goes. Lars is a very adamant 2A suporter and a CCW permit holder and user.

[Ysabel Kid]

I wonder what his rating with the NRA is, and how he has voted on previous gun control measures? All I know for sure is that he wanted to close the "gun show loophole" - which doesn't exist, and shows him to be naive', and that regardless he is a light-year and then some ahead of Obama on the gun issue!

[J Miller]

By the sounds of your report, McCain would be a "better" lesser of the two evils than Bush II was.

Joe

[Doc Hudson]

In the past, McCain has not been a friend of gunowners. IF, his statements are not the result of an election year conversion, but a real statement of honest (at least as honest as a politician can be) opinion, that statement is rather reassuring.

[Old Ironsights]

I wonder what his rating with the NRA is, and how he has voted on previous gun control measures? All I know for sure is that he wanted to close the "gun show loophole" - which doesn't exist, and shows him to be naive', and that regardless he is a light-year and then some ahead of Obama on the gun issue!

IIRC at at least one point he was a "C" or less. But sincehe became the darling chosen by the Machine, that info may have been purged.

[rangerider7]

IMHO We need to get the word out for each and every person that thinks as we do to get out and VOTE! We need the largest turn out for our side in years. Nobody sit home.

[Leverdude]

What a politician says has no bearing on what he does. Ask him when the last time he introduced any pro gun/ pro freedom legislation.

[JB]

IMHO We need to get the word out for each and every person that thinks as we do to get out and VOTE! We need the largest turn out for our side in years. Nobody sit home.

I'll go along with that. This election is critical.

[Old Ironsights]

What a politician says has no bearing on what he does. Ask him when the last time he introduced any pro gun/ pro freedom legislation.

It's all about trust.

I trust that Osnoba will do exactly as he says he will - and destroy the country.

I trust than McChurian will do as he as he has always done - not as he says he will do - and that the country will still go to hell.

We had a choice once of someone who was genuinely trustworthywhen it came to The Constitution, but he got blacklisted by the Powers That Be.

[Old Time Hunter]

Here is his stance:

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Iss ... 7d2fbd.htm

Protecting Second Amendment Rights

John McCain believes that the right of law abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is a fundamental, individual Constitutional right that we have a sacred duty to protect. We have a responsibility to ensure that criminals who violate the law are prosecuted to the fullest, rather than restricting the rights of law abiding citizens. Gun control is a proven failure in fighting crime. Law abiding citizens should not be asked to give up their rights because of criminals - criminals who ignore gun control laws anyway.

Gun Manufacturer Liability

John McCain opposes backdoor attempts to restrict Second Amendment rights by holding gun manufacturers liable for crimes committed by third parties using a firearm, and has voted to protect gun manufacturers from such inappropriate liability aimed at bankrupting the entire gun industry.

Assault Weapons

John McCain opposes restrictions on so-called "assault rifles" and voted consistently against such bans. Most recently he opposed an amendment to extend a ban on 19 specific firearms, and others with similar characteristics.

Importation of High Capacity Magazines

John McCain opposes bans on the importation of certain types of ammunition magazines and has voted against such limitations.

Gun Locks

John McCain believes that every firearms owner has a responsibility to learn how to safely use and store the firearm they have chosen, whether for target shooting, hunting, or personal protection. He has supported legislation requiring gun manufacturers to include gun safety devices such as trigger locks in product packaging.

Banning Ammunition

John McCain believes that banning ammunition is just another way to undermine Second Amendment rights. He voted against an amendment that would have banned many of the most commonly used hunting cartridges on the spurious grounds that they were "armor-piercing."

DC Personal Protection

As part of John McCain's defense of Second Amendment rights, he cosponsored legislation to lift a ban on the law abiding citizens of the District of Columbia from exercising their Constitutional right to bear arms.

Criminal Background Checks

John McCain supports instant criminal background checks to help prohibit criminals from buying firearms and has voted to ensure they are conducted thoroughly, efficiently, and without infringing on the rights of law abiding citizens.

Background Checks at Gun Shows

At a time when some were trying to shut down gun shows in the name of fighting crime, John McCain tried to preserve gun shows by standardizing sales procedures. Federal law requires licensed firearm sellers at gun shows to do an instant criminal background check on purchasers while private firearm sellers at gun shows do not have to conduct such a check. John McCain introduced legislation that would require an instant criminal background check for all sales at gun shows and believes that such checks must be conducted quickly to ensure that unnecessary delays do not effectively block transactions.

The Firearm Purchase Waiting Period

John McCain has opposed "waiting periods" for law abiding citizen's purchase of firearms.

The Confiscation of Firearms After an Emergency

John McCain opposes the confiscation of firearms from private citizens, particularly during times of crisis or emergency. He voted in favor of an amendment sponsored by Senator David Vitter prohibiting such confiscation.

Stiffer Penalties for Criminals Who Use a Firearm in the Commission of a Crime

John McCain believes in strict, mandatory penalties for criminals who use a firearm in the commission of a crime or illegally possess a firearm. Enforcing the current laws on the books is the best way to deter crime.

[Old Ironsights]

Here is his stance:

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Iss ... 7d2fbd.htm
...

Right... That's where his campaign rethoric "stands". How about some non-spin?

NRA Gives McCain a C+ On Guns source: vote-smart.org

2004 Based on lifetime voting records on gun issues and the results of a questionnaire sent to all Congressional candidates in 2004, the National Rifle Association assigned Senator McCain a grade of C+ (with grades ranging from a high of A+ to a low of F).

July 01, 2008 http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/ ... ndors.html
The NRA's Endorsement Still Pending
The National Rifle Association announced plans today for a $40M campaign to paint Barack Obama as an opponent to Second Amendment rights. But the effort, first reported by Politico, doesn't include -- at least as far as the NRA is specifiying publicly -- a firm pitch for the presumptive GOP nominee, John McCain.

The group is still withholding its endorsement, a vital seal of approval for the party's conservative base and a nod that matters to voters in rural swing states, such as New Hampshire and Virginia.

Andrew Arulanandam, the NRA's director of public affairs, said the organization will make an endorsement decision after the GOP convention in MN.

"We’ll let you know when the time comes what we decide to do," he told On Call.

Arulanandam noted that in recent history the NRA has twice decided not to endorse the Republican nominee for president: George H.W. Bush in 1992 and Bob Dole in 1996.

McCain, who received a C+ rating from the NRA in 2004 (the group's most recent scorecard), has voted for legislation to close the gun show loophole, and his support for campaign finance reform also goes against the NRA's platform.

"If you look at his record he’s had a good record with us," Arulanandam said. "He’s voted against gun bans. He’s voted against ammunition bans. He’s voted against waiting periods."

Arulanandam said Obama's comment tentatively praising the Supreme Court's decision last week to strike down the District of Columbia's handgun ban belies his record of support for gun control measures.

"If you look at his voting record, he has spent a lifetime of voting against gun owners and hunters whether in the Illinois legislature or in the United States Senate," he said. "I don’t think there’s a dime’s worth of difference between Al Gore, John Kerry and Barack Obama when it comes to the gun issue. All have strong records of voting for gun control."

Arulanandam said that about half of the $40M will be used for literature, calls and advertising targeting the presumptive Democratic nominee.

(JENNIFER SKALKA)

For a reminder of the longtime tension between the NRA and McCain, read on as then NRA CEO and Exec VP Wayne LaPierre blasts McCain's campaign finance proposal. The write-up, dated 5/19/01, was reported by Newsmax.

Per (the very conservative) Newsmax:

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - Speaking to thousands of NRA members who packed the main convention center hall, CEO and Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre blasted Sen. John McCain.

The NRA chief harshly criticized McCain's efforts on behalf of the McCain-Feingold bill that would reform campaign financing.

LaPierre asked, "Is it possible that John McCain thinks you have too much freedom?"

LaPierre said McCain's new law would effectively shut the NRA out of the political system by not allowing independent groups from buying TV or radio ads 60 days before a general election.

Had this been true in the last election, LaPierre said, the outcome would have likely been different and Gore would have won.

Praising McCain's war heroism, and the fact for decades he was an ardent supporter of the NRA, LaPierre expressed exasperation. "But I gotta tell you, I don't know what's happening to John McCain."

He took the senator to task for appearing in public service commercials for a radical anti-gun group called Americans for Gun Safety.

McCain aroused even more anger from gun rights supporters earlier this week when he co-sponsored legislation with Sen. Joe Lieberman that would ban private gun sales at gun shows unless a background check was completed.

LaPierre wondered if McCain was becoming a point man for both an anti-First and Second amendment effort.

Clearly the campaign finance proposals have the NRA worried.

LaPierre said to cheers that if the law is enacted, the NRA might just put to sail a boat called the "Good Ship NRA" and broadcast its views from international waters.

He said the new law would benefit the politicians and major media conglomerates - and not independent voters or groups like the NRA.

LaPierre said: "Just think - eight weeks before a general election, the 4.3 million members of the NRA must shut up and step aside ... while Rather, and Couric and Gumbel and Rosie and Jennings and Hillary and Schumer hold court and won the airwaves without challenge."

He gets a worse rating from GOA.

John McCain's Gun Control Problem
by John Velleco
Director of Federal Affairs

In 2000, Andrew McKelvey, the billionaire founder of monster.com, threw a sizable chunk of his fortune into the gun control debate.

It was shortly after the Columbine school shooting. Bill Clinton was in the White House and gun control was daily front-page news. McKelvey wanted in.

He started out contributing to Handgun Control Inc., which had since been renamed the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. But while he agreed with their gun banning goals, McKelvey thought the way they packaged their message was too polarizing.

"I told them that Handgun Control was the wrong name. I thought what they were doing was great but I thought it could be done differently," McKelvey said.

So McKelvey struck out on his own and formed Americans for Gun Safety. Although AGS shared almost identical public policy goals as other anti-gun groups, McKelvey portrayed the group as in the 'middle' on the issue and attempted to lure pro-gun advocates into his fold.

To pull it off, he needed a bipartisan coalition with credibility on both sides of the gun debate. On the anti-gun side, the task was easy. Most of the Democrats and a small but vocal minority of Republicans supported President Clinton's gun control agenda.

Finding someone who could stake a claim as a pro-gunner and yet be willing to join McKelvey was not so easy. Enter Senator John McCain.

McCain's star was already falling with conservatives. He had carved out a niche as a 'maverick' as the author of so-called Campaign Finance Reform (more aptly named the incumbent protection act), which was anathema to conservatives but made him a darling of the mainstream media.

Gun owners were outraged over CFR, but McCain still maintained some credibility on the gun issue.

Earlier in his career, McCain had voted against the Clinton crime bill (which contained a ban on so-called assault weapons), and he did not join the 16 Senate Republicans who voted for the Brady bill, which required a five-day waiting period for the purchase of a handgun.

But as he ramped up for his presidential run in 2000, McCain, expanding on the 'maverick' theme, staked out a position on guns far to the left of his primary opponent, George W. Bush.

McCain began speaking out against small, inexpensive handguns and he entertained the idea of supporting the 'assault weapons' ban. His flirtation with anti-Second Amendment legislation quickly led to a political marriage of convenience with McKelvey.

Within months of the formation of AGS, McCain was featured in radio and television ads in Colorado and Oregon supporting initiatives to severely regulate gun shows and register gun buyers. Anti-gunners were ecstatic to get McCain on board.

Political consultant Scott Reed, who managed Bob Dole's presidential campaign in 1996, hoped McCain would "bring a conservative perspective to the gun debate."

The ads not only pushed the anti-gun show measure in those two states, they also served to undermine the efforts of gun rights activists who were furiously lobbying against the same type of bill in Congress.

"I think that if the Congress won't act, the least I can do is support the initiative in states where it's on the ballot," McCain said in an interview.

At the time still a newcomer to the gun control debate, McCain said, "I do believe my view has evolved."

McCain continued to pursue his anti-gun agenda even after his presidential run ended, and the next year he and McKelvey made it to the big screen.

As moviegoers flocked to see Pearl Harbor, they were treated to an anti-gun trailer ad featuring McCain. This time the Senator was pushing legislation to force people to keep firearms locked up in the home.

"We owe it to our children to be responsible by keeping our guns locked up," McCain told viewers.

Economist and author John Lott, Jr., noted, "No mention was ever made by McCain about using guns for self-defense or that gunlocks might make it difficult to stop intruders who break into your home. And research indicates that McCain's push for gunlocks is far more likely to lead to more deaths than it saves."

Also in 2001, McCain went from being a supporter of anti-gun bills to being a lead sponsor.

Pro-gun allies in Congress who were holding off gun show legislation -- which would at best register gun owners and at worst close down the shows entirely -- were angered when McCain teamed up with Sen. Joe Lieberman (D-CT) and introduced a "compromise" bill to give the issue momentum.

"There is a lot of frustration. He has got his own agenda," one Republican Senator told Roll Call.

After September 11, 2001, McKelvey and McCain, now joined by Lieberman, had a new angle to push gun control.

"Terrorists are exploiting the gun show loophole," AGS ads hyped. McCain and Lieberman hit the airwaves again in a series of radio and TV spots, thanks to McKelvey's multi-million dollar investment.

A Cox News Service article noted that, "The ads first focused on gun safety but switched to terrorism after Sept. 11. Americans for Gun Safety said the switch is legitimate."

However, Second Amendment expert Dave Kopel pointed out that, "the McCain-Lieberman bill is loaded with poison pills which would allow a single appointed official to prevent any gun show, anywhere in the United States from operating."

Ultimately, the anti-gun legislation was killed in the Congress and AGS fizzled out and disappeared altogether. The issues for which McKelvey spent over $10 million are still in play, however, and John McCain remains a supporter of those causes. In fact, as recently as 2004, McCain was able to force a vote on a gun show amendment.

In the post-Columbine and post-9/11 environments, the Second Amendment was under attack as never before. Pro-gun patriotic Americans who stood as a bulwark to keep the Congress from eviscerating the Constitution were dismayed to look across the battle lines only to see Senator McCain working with the enemy.

John McCain tried running for president in 2000 as an anti-gunner. This year it appears he is seeking to "come home" to the pro-gun community, but the wounds are deep and memories long.

GOA Ratings For John McCain http://www.gunowners.org/mccaintb.htm

2000 C--
2002 C--
2004 F--
2006 F--

Don't trust what he says - trust his record. He will do whatefer he finds expedient or politically advantageous... and will sell RKBA out in a heartbeat if he thinks it will help him.

[Old Time Hunter]

OI, Are you saying Osama is the better choice?

[BenT]

Sorry someone who grew up in Hawaii doesn't have any idea of how the rest of America grew up with hunting as part of their life. There is no way Obama has a clue on how rural America lives. Obama couldn't represent me and my view of American Life.

I respect McCain but I don't know how he could have let the border situation get out of control. He didn't help his state out much by sitting on the sidelines. But so far he is getting my vote.

[Old Ironsights]

OI, Are you saying Osama is the better choice?

No. I'm saying there is no choice. Not since the Repulocrats decided that they weren't going to back the Small Government, Pro Constitution candidate.

The only thing that a case of BO would do to America is maybe get people to recognise the stink and give DC the scrubdown it needs sooner than if McChurian gets in.

[Lefty Dude]

Sorry someone who grew up in Hawaii doesn't have any idea of how the rest of America grew up with hunting as part of their life. There is no way Obama has a clue on how rural America lives. Obama couldn't represent me and my view of American Life.

I respect McCain but I don't know how he could have let the border situation get out of control. He didn't help his state out much by sitting on the sidelines. But so far he is getting my vote.

Gun owners in Arizona do not have much respect for JC.

However given the choice he is all we got.

I will vote for him, but with reservations.

[Blaine]

No. I'm saying there is no choice

If you truly don't think so, then your head is without sunshine There is always a choice; you can play ball or you can get the bat shoved up where your head is

[mklwhite]

Sometimes the choices are like which foot do you want to be shot in. So you can argue I use my right more than my left so shoot my left. Heck, there ought to be a way to say no to neither and give us another choice and really make it stick. However, as with all big government things, the that's just not a choice. So participate and get hammered but reserve the right that you did the best you could with the options available or don't participate and just accept the victimization. Those are your real choices.