OT: Camera Questions

[J Miller]

Do we have any members here who still use film cameras and understand the electronic controls of the modern Canon cameras such as the Rebel 2000 and Elan series?

I'm electronics challenged. I've read and read and read the owners manual of my Rebel 2000, and any thing else I can, and NONE of it makes sense.

Can anybody help????? Or maybe suggest a step by step web site or book to go to?



Joe

[Griff]

Yep... and no. I still use my Nikkormat... sometimes. But, use my Canon digital almost all the time as it's just too easy. I keep wanting to get a Nikon digital that'll use my old AI lenses.

[kimwcook]

Sorry, using all digital anymore and didn't ever have an electronic understanding of the 35mm film camera.

[J Miller]

My Canon D60 DSLR has many of the same controls as the Rebel 2000. It stays on automatic 99.99% of the time. I finally got a site with some tutorials on it, but since the batteries are DEAD I gotta shell out mega bucks for new ones before I can learn anything from the tutorial.

But, that don't help with the film camera.

Joe

[bj94]

I know a little about cameras- what part are you having trouble with?

Modern digital SLR's have somewhat similar exposure controls to more recent film SLR's, but digitals have added more stuff to deal with the way the sensor stores images.

[Ben_Rumson]

Yeah ..my digital camera's instructions only made sense AFTER I fiddled with it off & on for a week or two Hmmmn... That reminds me, better go use it again for a refresher....

[Noah Zark]

I made the jump from several Minolta SRT 35 mms to Sony digitals about six or seven years ago. I skipped the electronic 35mms because I found them to be feature-packed only because the manufacturer COULD make them so. Features for feature sake, sorta like cell phones.

When I went to digital, (Sony DSC S-75 and S-85) I found that I learned the fastest by having the camera in my lap when reading the manual, and walking through with the camera what the manual said, feature by feature. Took a week of evenings, maybe more, but I was GTG after that and haven't had the manual out once since.

Noah

[alnitak]

Joe, what is it that you are trying to do? Change f/stop, shutter speed or exposure settings? Shoot multiple or long exposure? Or just take pictures in "Program" mode? If you give us a hint, I'm sure there are a number of people here who can walk you through the controls.

Alternatively, there are a number of camera forums, including ones devoted to Canon and the rebel, that you can ask advice on. Just Google them (I hang out on the Nikon forums, but have used film Canon's in the past).

[J Miller]

OK,

Here is my picture taking history.
Up until about 2002 I'd never used anything but a cheep point and shoot camera. Never a .35 mm never anything with adjustable features.

OK, I bought an older Canon that fueled my curiosity and my brother gave me the Rebel 2000 for Christmas. Later I stumbled over a Canon AE-1 and here I sit with all these neat cameras and I don't know squat.

I know what film speed is.
I think I know what the f stop is.
I have no idea of what the things do.

Now, I'm not stupid, but sometimes I can read the same thing over and over and over and over and it WILL NOT STICK in my mind. Even with the camera in my hand.

I've always been the kind that learns by doing, not by reading. BUT, in this case I need the basics first. I need something that will give me in layman's terms the definitions of each term you run into in the camera instructions. Something like a chart I could print out and keep in front of me.

The Rebel 2000 and the D060 has electronic controls that are TO ME so complex I just do not grasp them.
You gotta turn this nob then push that button then go to the menu then back to the button then select ............................... Makes my Windos XP Pro seem simple by comparison.

I don't know what to tell you guys what I need other than someone to guide me step by step.

I guess I am sorta stupid when it comes to cameras.

Joe

[alnitak]

OK, now I get what you're after. The easiest answer is to turn the dial on top to the little rectangle picture -- that is full-auto mode. Then turn on the camera and take a picture (BTW, if there's a AF/MF switch on the lens, make sure it's on AF). Don't forget to turn the dial to ISO and set your film speed when you first load the camera. The camera, in auto mode, will do all the other figuring for you --- like the point and shoot type. It will even use the flash if it thinks it needs to.

The Portrait mode (or the little head on the dial) is used for...portraits. It makes the background a little fuzzy so that the face stands out better.

The next setting on the dial is a little mountain...that's the landscape mode. Use that if you're taking pictures of scenery.

The next setting on the dial is a flower. That setting is use for close-ups, like if you're taking a picture of a bug on a flower or a close-up of the flower itself.

The next picture is a little figure running. That's the sports mode. It basically speeds up the shutter to freeze the action. Use that if you're taking pictures of a dog or horse running, for example, or your kid in a basketball game.

The next one is for night scenes (has a star on it). Use that for pictures of people and places at night.

These are all the automatic modes. I recommend you sticking to them for the time being.

The Rebel has seven focus areas. That's in case the person (or object) is not in the middle of the picture. If you use one of the automatic modes, the Rebel will choose the focus spot for you. So you don't need to worry about those areas just yet. If the person is off to the side, just put them in the middle of the picture, push the shutter button half-way down, and then refame the picture (e.g., move them back to the edge while continuing to hold the shutter button half-way down) and finish depressing the shutter.

I recommend silencing the beeping (see page 54 of the manual).

You may find this site useful.

http://photonotes.org/manuals/eos-rebel-2000/

BTW, Don't feel bad. Probably 90% of the people who buy a Rebel never take it off the rectangle, and most of the rest only use one of the automatic modes. Only a very few use the manual settings and other features. When you need the other features (like the timer or multiple exposures), you can look them up in the manual and test them before you use them. Don't try to absorb the whole manual in one sitting, or even a couple. Read about one thing, then play with the camera until you understand that one feature. Then go on to the next one. Unfortunately, with a film camera, unlike a digital camera, you can't just experiment to your heart's content. Not only do you not see the results immediately, but it gets expensive to take "test shots". Given you have a D60 too, I would just go buy new batteries for it and forget about the film camera. Do all your experimenting on aperture priority, shutter priority, multiple exposure, etc. on the digital. The controls should be basically the same as the Rebel, so once you learn and experiment, you can always go back to the film camera.

Good luck, and let me know if you have any more questions.

[J Miller]

I recommend silencing the beeping (see page 54 of the manual).

They beep!?!? I didn't know that. If either of mine is beeping I sure can't hear it. Lots of tonal hearing loss. I'll ask my wife if she can hear it.

Thanks for the break down of the round knob. That's just about what I've been doing.

Considering the batteries for the D-60 are $30.00 each I need to sell about 4 more cylinder bags to get them.

Joe

[alnitak]

Joe, the batteries for the D60 should be rechargeable. Didn't it come with a charger?

OK, if you have the automatic modes down, and want to take the next step. I would start with "Aperture-priority". It is the single best thing to make your pictures "pop".

Basically, aperture priority (the Av on your dial) allows you to adjust the f/stop to get the effect you want, and changes the amount of light reaching the film. So, for example, if I'm taking a portrait and I just want the face to be in focus while the background is blurred, I might choose an f/stop of f/4. Yet, if I allowed the camera to automatically choose, it might choose f/8 or f/11, which would allow for the background to be also in focus (I won't go into why aperture changes the depth of field; just know that it does). If the background is also in focus, then the face won't stand out as much or the picture might be too "busy" (since your eye will look at everything in focus, which makes your brain work more to isolate the face). That is one of the things that the little head position on the dial does ... it automatically lowers the f/stop to make your portraits look better.

However, if I'm shooting scenery, I would want everything, both near and far, to be in focus. So, I might choose an f/stop of f/16 or f/22. (The little mountain on your dial).

Most "advanced" photographers utilize aperture-priority shooting for a lot of their work. It gives them greater control over the final picture. For example, at f/1.4 they can choose to focus on, say, an eye and let the rest of the face be a little soft for that glamor look.

If you use the Av mode, the camera will automatically choose the shutter speed to match. Without going into a lot of detail, aperture and shutter speed are inversely linked, so if I lower the aperture I have to increase the shutter speed to get the same exposure on the picture. That's because the lower the aperture, the larger the diaphragm of the camera (which is in the lens for an slr), which lets in more light. So, if I kept the shutter speed the same, I might overexpose the picture from the additional light getting in. If I raise the aperture, I need to lower the shutter speed to give more time to let light in (since the diaphragm hole is now smaller). Every step in aperture (e.g., 2.8 to 4, 4 to 5.6, 5.6 to 8, etc.) factors the shutter speed by 1/2 (going up in f/stop) or 2 (going down in f/stop). So, the exposure of a picture at f/5.6 and 1/250 shutter is equal to one at f/8 and 1/125 shutter.

Why is all that important? Well, taking a picture with anything less than 1/focal length of the lens runs the risk of showing camera shake. So for example, if I have a 50mm lens on the camera, I don't want my shutter speed to fall below 1/60 (the closest standard speed to 1/50). But, if I'm indoors with no flash, the camera might want to take it at 1/30 to get enough light. In that case, I can drop the aperture by a stop (say from f/5.6 to f/4), which allows the shutter speed to go up to 1/60 from 1/30.

Or, I can just leave it on the rectangle and let the camera figure it all out! The problem is, suppose I don't like the decisions the camera is making? Say it's shooting a portrait at f/8 (because it has enough light so it can), but I'm going for the glamor look and want to shoot at f/2.8. My only option then is to take it off the rectangle and set it to Av so I can reduce the aperture to f/2.8 with the thumb knob. The camera will then go, "Oh, OK. I now know what you want, so let me increase the shutter speed to compensate."

Again, most people with SLRs don't get to this level of adjustment. But you might find it fun to play with on your digital camera and see the differences in the shots that result from changing the aperture and shutter speeds. And if you really want to control both, you can set it on the M setting (Manual).

Have fun!

[Buffboy]

I recommend silencing the beeping (see page 54 of the manual).

They beep!?!? I didn't know that. If either of mine is beeping I sure can't hear it. Lots of tonal hearing loss. I'll ask my wife if she can hear it.

Thanks for the break down of the round knob. That's just about what I've been doing.

Considering the batteries for the D-60 are $30.00 each I need to sell about 4 more cylinder bags to get them.

Joe

Joe Unless you must have "Canon" batteries you can buy them much cheaper on flebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/TWO-BP511-2000mAh-B ... dZViewItem

[J Miller]

alnitak, Buffboy,

Yes I have a charger and have been using the same two batteries since I got the camera in '03. My brother used them for some time prior to that. Just recently they quit taking a deep charge. They will now only take a surface charge. Their dead.
I can get them locally too. Which is what I'll do as soon as I put together some dollars.

alnitak,
Will read your post above in a bit. Right now I'm just wandering through the forum before I go do something else.

Joe

[bj94]

Here are some basic definitions-

There is an "aperture" in the lens, that gets bigger or smaller to let in more or less light, just like the iris of your eye. The relative size of the aperture is the "f-stop". So an f-stop of "8" lets in a certain amount of light, f11 lets in exactly half as much, f5.6 lets in exactly twice as much. So you can adjust the f-stop to let in more or less light and get the correct exposure.

There is also a shutter that obviously lets in light when it is open, and it is adjustable too. So 1/250 of a second lets in more light than 1/500 but less light than 1/125. So you can adjust the shutter speed to get the correct exposure.

Up until about 1970 you had to set the shutter speed and aperture yourself, possibly with the help of a meter, and hope you got the exposure right. After about 1970 cameras started to have builtin electronics to help you. BTW your digital uses these same controls to set its exposure.

The other component of the exposure system is the film sensitivity, used to be known as the "ASA" rating of the film, now it is known as the "ISO" rating of the film. Digital cameras have similar settings to adjust the sensitivity of their sensor. Back to film- a film with ISO of 400 will be twice as sensitive to light as a film with ISO of 200.

For any given light condition, there will be a combination of aperture, shutter speed, and ISO that will give proper exposure. Your goal, or the goal of the electronics in the camera, is to find this combination. Actually there will be MANY combinations because as you adjust one of the 3 components, you have to vary one or both of the others to get back to the proper exposure. Some combinations would be better for certain things than others. For instance if you are shooting sports then the combinations with higher shutter speeds are better for you.

Back to the camera controls- older cameras were fully mechanical/manual, meaning you had to set everything yourself. Nowadays the average cheap digital is fully automatic and sets everything for you, and may not even allow you to select anything. In a camera with lots of controls this may be known as "automat" mode, but will probably be known as "program" mode since the camera will follow a certain program to select the combination of aperture and shutter to use. In between manual and automatic are the modes known as "aperture priority" and "shutter priority", meaning that they give priority to the aperture or shutter. The way these work is that you decide that you want a certain shutter speed for some reason, and the camera's electronics selects the aperture speed to go with it and give the correct exposure. For this you set the camera to shutter priority and set the shutter speed. But if you decided you wanted a certain aperture for artistic effect, you set the camera to aperture priority, set the aperture, and the camera's electronics will select the shutter speed to give the correct exposure. You would not need to use either of these modes until you know enough to be able to select shutter speeds and/or apertures.

A newer film SLR may have additional automatic modes, maybe called "scene modes". What they do is use a different way of selecting aperture and shutter that will better suit certain things, such as action or sports photography. If there is a scene mode that sounds more appropriate to what you are doing, by all means feel free to use it.

All of what I have described was available on my Nikon film SLR, and is available on my Nikon digital SLR.

Read through this and then let us know where you want to go next. Or email or PM me direct.

[Naphtali]

Do we have any members here who still use film cameras and understand the electronic controls of the modern Canon cameras such as the Rebel 2000 and Elan series?

I'm electronics challenged. I've read and read and read the owners manual of my Rebel 2000, and any thing else I can, and NONE of it makes sense.

Can anybody help????? Or maybe suggest a step by step web site or book to go to?

Joe

It is likely that basic controls of film and digital camera will be nearly identical. You might visit a Cannon dealer and chat with one of the gurus.

A better alternative, but less convenient, and probably more expensive is to acquire a manual or slightly electronic film SLR camera -- such as Nikon F3T, FM2n, FM/T, etc. These non-tinker-toy cameras are built to last generations, the technology mature, and photographic results outstanding.