Loading Mistake- What would you do?

[3t-]

Gents,

Rifle: Original Win 92 25/20 made 1922. Solid, sound, good condition.

I picked up a "load" for this rifle from another shooter. Rem 86grn JSP, H-4198, 12 gr, Win Small Rifle primer. Checked my Lyman 48 and "read" that 13 gr is max for this combination of powder/bullet.so get to reloading. I actually load them at 11.9gr of powder just to pull it down a bit. After loading up a batch of 50, headed out to the range. This load shoots into one hole at 25 yards if I do things right, 1 inch group at worst. No sigh of distress on the fired case.

Ok so I get home and while reading the Hodgdon load data website see that the max load there for H-4198 and the Rem. 86 gr bullet is 11.5 gr. with a pressure of 26,500 cup. WHAT! I go back to my Lyman 48 and see that the 13gr load I "read" was for IMR-4198, not H-4198.

What would you do? Keep using the 11.9 gr H-4198? Pull the balance 25 or so and start over? Am I in the danger zone here or are these "max" loads published for weaker pump rifles and older black powder barrels on the 92? How different are these two powders in this volume cartridge with this wt bullet?

I would appreciate your thoughts and experience.

[morgan in nm]

I have had a similar experience except I was loading 30-06 with IMR 4895 instead of H4895 and in my instance, I found that the IMR was a much hotter powder than H4895. I don't know if 4198 is the same. If so, you should be fine.

In my 25-20's, I use either unique or 2400 so I really cant answer your question quantifiably.

[Lefty Dude]

Do you have a cronograph ? If so check the load across the screens and see what ya got.

If there are no signs of pressure on the case, primer pocket, etc. I would shoot them.

[Hobie]

IME the Hogdon powders are slower than their IMR cousins. No problems? I'd continue shooting it. You've already "worked up" to the load...

[cnjarvis]

+1 on velocity.

You might also cross-reference load data sources as well. Various sources give different loads for the same type and weight bullet. See what you come up with. If the Hodgdon data is the heaviest charge I'd consider pulling them down.

Of course pulling them down and reloading them per the Hodgdon data is an appropriate solution.

[stretch]

You might also check a couple of other manuals/powder manufacturer's sites.

http://www.reloadersnest.com/ might be one option.

Sometimes different manuals vary widely in what is considered an
appropriate charge.

If you've got no signs of pressure, easy extraction, no flattened or
cratered primers, or signs of primer leakage, I'd shoot the rest of the
lot. Next batch you can work up again from a lower charge. The load
may be perfectly safe in YOUR gun - it might ruin somebody else's.
It might also be harder on your gun than you ralize at the moment.
I'd shoot the rest if there are no signs of high pressure, then back off
on your next batch.

Of course, it's YOUR gun and YOUR backside - so you'll have to take
the reponsibility for the results, eh?

[Griff]

I kinda go with Hobie on this one.

From "the Reloader Bench" burn rate chart:
86. H4198 (Hodgdon) - fast
87. N133 (Vihtavuori)
88. 4198 (IMR) -slower

They appear to be very close and if you're showing no signs of pressure in either the cases or sticky extraction, I think I'd let it go. Maybe drop down a few tenths of a grain for the next batch and see if they group better, (which I suspect they will).

FWIW: The Hodgdon site's reloading data shows the same data as your Lyman 48:
86 GR. REM SP Hodgdon H4198 .257" 1.600" 10.5 1576 24,500 CUP 11.5 1673 26,500 CUP, and shows a couple of loads into the 27K range with other powder & bullet combos (H110 & H4227, both of which are slower than either of the 4198s).

In the end, it's up to you... another reason I try to avoid powders with designations that are like another.

[bj94]

The 92 is a strong design, and the .25-20 has a pretty small casehead so it won't put a lot of stress on the bolt. If you don't see any problems with the loads then you could keep shooting them. If you can wait until colder weather to shoot them, then that would also help to reduce pressure a bit.

[El Chivo]

26,500 CUP is pretty low pressure, not sure about your older rifle, but an extra .4 grain shouldn't add that much pressure.

I found a silhouette load for 30-30 where the max charge is 21 grains and the pressure is only 23k. A hunting load with that powder calls for 28-34 grains with pressures up to 36,500 CUP. Obviously exceeding the max silhouette load would still be safe, it's well under the starting point for the hunting load.

[3t-]

Hey, Thanks for all the ideas.

Lefty, don't have a chrony, but it would have been handy.

I went out to the range this morning with a few rounds of 11.5 grns H4198 a few rounds with 11.7 grns, the 11.9 and some factory.

All rounds shoot centered and smaller than 1 inch groups at 25 yards. The factory ammo hits the 10 ring, the 11.5 and the 11.7 hit 2 inches high of center and the 11.9 hits 3 inches high of center. All were easy extractions, no flat primers, measured the cases and no stretching.

I think any of these rounds would be minute of coyote at 100yds and that is all I can ask out of this old girl. I will say that that fat old firing pin sure puts a wide crater in those small primers.

Thanks again for all your thoughts.

Man I love this old 92 25/20, a real joy to shoot!