OT Teaching gun awareness to my son - what do you do?

[pharmseller]

I had a conversation with a woman last week about kids and guns. She liked my technique so I thought I'd share.

My level of gun control at home is such that I don't worry about my seven year old boy "getting into the guns" with tragic results. Since I cannot control what happens at a friend's house, however, I create scenarios without my boy's knowledge and then I see what happens.

One word, first. I always have a discussion with the parents of said friends before he goes over to play. Guns in the house/car/RV/etc? Gun security measures? Is your kid familiar/trained/taught about guns? If I get heat or unsatisfacory answers, they play at my house.

So here's what I do at home: after UNLOADING a handgun or two I stash them where I know he'll find them. Then I see what he does.

Three rules: 1. Don't touch. At all. Absolutely. 2. Don't let anyone else touch, either. At all. Absolutely. 3. Find a grownup. Right now.
If rule #2 get broken by someone, get out of the house. Right now. And find a grownup.

Kids can remember 3 rules. KISS.

Cade has yet to fail a test. And he gets a reward for proper behavior.

How do you guys prepare your kids for the outside world and guns?

Quinn

[O.S.O.K.]

I like the way you have handled this! We have no trouble with the kitchen knives, the gasoline in the garage, electrical outlets - all of which can maim and kill. Familiarity, understanding and rewards for proper handling are the keys.

I can tell you as a father of three that there is another thing that is important with firearms.

Guns are particularly interesting to kids. They do transcend other things due to their dramatic nature.

Because of this, I add another level to the mix - personal experience.

I believe that taking your kids out to shoot is very important. I always started the trip with a review of the gun safety rules - as you say, KISS.

But the reaction and realization that a child obtains from being behind the revolver when it discharges is priceless. They learn first hand that even a .22 LR is quite powerful and dangerous. A 38 Special is very impressive and when they stand nearby someone shooting a 44 Mag, well, the lesson hits home - these are NOT toys.

And once they gain personal experience, they become authoritative experts on the subject.

Yes, they gain absolute authority over the subject with their friends who do not have the experience and will excersize this authority like a dictator. Which is exactly what you want them to do. They will posess a self confidence that can only be obtained by "been there done that".

Good topic! Thanks for posting!

[C. Cash]

Sounds pretty good. I do the overall rule of "Never handle a gun without Dad there, and go get an adult immediately if your at someone elses house and they have a gun".

Beyond that:

1-no pointing at what you don't want to shoot(Muzzle Control)
2-finger off the trigger until your ready to shoot
3-Treat all guns as if they are loaded



PS....my 3rd son is also "Cade"....short for Caedan. Great name!

[pharmseller]

I got a plastic bottle of soda, let it warm, then shook it up. I showed Cade a .22 bullet in comparison to a .30-06 (Cade knows that the elk heads on the wall were shot with an -06). Then I shot the soda bottle with the .22, of course with dramatic results.
"If that little bullet can do THAT to a soda bottle, what would it do to you? Or me?"

A good lesson indeed.

Quinn

[Pete44ru]

I have never locked my guns, in over 40 years, and only recently bought a gun safe - after all three of my children made it to adulthood & were no longer home, and my neighboorhood got a lot more densly populated.
I got the safe, to protect my guns while no one was home for long periods of time - especially since both my wife & I are both now retired.

This is what worked for me, although YMMV, of course:

When my children were all young, 7 y.o. or so, before all the safety talk & stuff, I would take something familiar to their everyday lives, like a plastic milk jug, fill it with water, and set it out near us.

I would explain that anyone can have an accident, trip, etc, and even an "empty" gun can hurt someone - and then I put a shot from a powerful round into the milk jug, whereupon it would explode & send the child into stunned awe.
While they were still in shock, I told them (harshly) "that could be YOUR head, or Mommy's (whatever)" - BE CAREFUL !
My son is now 43, and says he can still remember being shocked by it - Good, IMHO - As long as they paid attention !

I then told each child, in turn as they got older, that "they were to never, ever to touch any of my guns unless I was there - ever !"

BUT - At the same time, "If they ever wanted to see or touch any gun, all they had to do was ask - and I would show them."

When an adult makes a promise, especially to their child, the adult had better keep that promise - upon pain of losing that child's trust forever.

So, no matter the time of day/night, busy/idle, whatever - whenever one of my kids asked to "see", I immediately complied.

I occassionally extended the "show/tell " to one or another of their friends, they brought to me, who had the itch to touch, too.

That took all the "mystery" about guns, away from the children - and after awhile they were no longer curious.

As they got older, they "watched" their friends and relatives closer than I would ever had the time or ability to - because they were confident that "all they had to do was ask", to get what they wanted w/o reprecussions............

[Grizz]

My kids were taught, from the day they were born almost, to NEVER touch a gun unless I give it to them. And ONLY I give it to them. All they have to do is ask.

Then when they are handling the firearm they learn muzzle control, they learn trigger finger control, and they think through where a bullet would go, right now.

Then when they can show some motor control of a firearm they got a cork gun with this rule: you must treat this gun like it is a real gun. If you point it at someone, shoot someone, shoot the television, then if's confiscated for a time AND that time is added to the wait for a BB gun.

Once they could be trusted with a cork gun they were given a BB gun with the same rules. Once they were certified safe with the BB gun they got a single shot .22. And after they were certified with the rimfire they got one of my guns to hunt with. With one son this was about 7 years old. Now my kids have more of my guns than I do I think.....

It worked for us.....

Grizz

[jdad]

Great technique Quinn.

I did something similar when we moved into the Sierra's. Firearms were everywhere, so it was mandatory that he learned a "modified" Eddie Eagle program.

The 3 rules that I drilled into him were:

1. Never touch a firearm unless an adult is supervising you.

2. It's always loaded until it has been checked.

3. It's not a toy. Don't point it at anything you don't want to destroy.

David

[gamekeeper]

Ever since I can remember I had been shooting air guns in the back yard with my big brother. So I knew a thing or two about safety rules.
The first time he took me hunting with his 12 gauge he found an old rusty bucket and put in a bush, stepped back about fifteen feet and fired, he not only destroyed the bucket but blew it thru the bush. I never forgot that lesson and have done similar things myself when teaching newcomers to the sport just how dangerous it is on the wrong end.

I think all you Dad's out there have done an excellent job of teaching gun safety.

[lever-4-life]

Where I grew up EVERYBODY had guns, It was a small logging town in the sierras. Every kid knew gun safty, I never knew of a gun accident. I rember shootings over mining and water rights (still happens ) When I moved to so-cal for school reasons I was terified by some of my fellow piers respect for firearms. I am glad to hear your kids know the rules and are safe. I realy like the soda bottle Idea!

[meanc]

My youngest will be 3 in August. He knows well that he's not to touch any gun, real or fake, unless he has permission from me or mommy.

I frequently ask if he's supposed to touch one and he always replies "Only if mommy and daddy say I can"... So far so good.

The oldest is 14, and if she wants to handle her 9422 or Colt Scout, now she just goes to the safe and grabs them. She's proven I can trust her with them.

[Ysabel Kid]

When I grew up my father was an active Special Agent with the FBI. Guns were all around the house - he did not own a safe. We were taught from a very early age that we did not touch any firearm without my father's permission. Violating this rule would have resulted in a spanking of earth-shattering proportions - and worse yet, revoking of our shooting priviledges!!! None of us were willing to risk that!!!

The kids in the neighborhood I grew up in also had firearms in their homes. Everyone else in the neighorhood had fathers who hunted. Same rules applied.

I can remember when I went to high school though, kids always wanted to see and handle my father's guns. The answer was a simple "no".

Fast forward to today. My guns are in a safe. My son's guns are in a safe (my old one). The only gun outside a safe is the one I am wearing at any given time. Scatch that - I do have a flintlock musket and sidearm on display in my office. I have taught my children the same rules that I was taught growing up - with the same punishment to be meeted out should they decide not to obey them. In addition, they do not discuss my hobby - too many thieving scumbuckets out there today. I also have them practice the NRA "Eddie Eagle" rules, which are much like Quinn's - if they see a firearm, (1) stop! (2) don't touch (3) leave the room (4) tell an adult.

This is a great program, easy to remember, and 100% effective if followed.

Special emphasis is on situations at other people's house. That's the only thing that worries me, as things can go south very fast!

[505stevec]

Many good lessons!!! Similar to what I did with my kids. A dramatic exploding melon or potato works great. I followed this with... If you want to look at the guns, thats ok. Just call me and tell me, we will clear them together then we handle them. This worked throughout their childhood. The boys would come every once in a while and say "dad can i see the .22"? I would then take it out and open the action. Together we would be certain it was cleared of any ammo. In their adult years I asked if they ever went to look behind my back. They both said no, the ability to look at them with me took away any desire to sneak a peak. Now we go to the range sometimes with their friends and my boys (both 20) take charge of safety and tell the friend where the firing line is and where they can load the weapon.

[Hobie]

Our kids didn't mess with car keys, guns, household poisons, alcohol, prescription medicines, etc because........

We'd have their butts if they did. And we got them for every infraction. No laissez faire attitude in our home!

[1886]

Great lesson. We teach essentially the same thing, do not touch, get away, tell an adult. This formula seems to follow a child's natural inclinations. Good deal. 1886.

[Leverdude]

I taught mine to shoot & early on they learned that guns simply arent to be played with or tutched unless we are useing them. I think letting them shoot & bringing home dead things helps alot. Just saying no might create a forbidden fruit type thing. So far, ones 9 & one 11 they have never broke the no touch rule & Lord knows I have set them up a bunch of times.

[BenT]

I use the same things posted here. I just bought a gun safe last chrismas. I always asked any new friends parents if guns are locked up in the house. But I also expose him to shooting by writing down numbers off the chrony and handing me cartridges while I test loads. So bench time even when he is not shooting gives him more awareness.

[AJMD429]

As toddlers the guns were locked up during the period of no judgement, same as knives, bug spray, and electric outlets with the little kidproof caps on them.

Once they got 'lingual' and more educatable, they'd see what guns did, and were of course interested to watch me shoot targets (pop cans and steel flip-ups). With hearing protectors on they weren't intimidated, and another adult was always there to keep them safely behind the line. I did the water-in-pop-can trick for effect as well.

Later, I'd hide an unloaded gun in the living room, and go bake some cookies or something, and 'test' them. When they were ages 3,6,8, and 10, the response was predictable:

- the 10 year old would find it and say "Now I know why you're making cookies..." (their reward if they did the right thing)

- the 8 year old would act like she honestly thought mom or I left one unattended out of stupidity, and obligingly come to tell us (rather than picking it up, etc.), and she'd tell the 6 year old (boy) to keep his distance, at which point,

- the 6 year old boy would excitedly run out of the room, up the stairs, and into his 3 year old sister's room, then we'd hear a big 'thump' and yelling and crying. He just HAD to go running upstairs, and pin his sister to the ground in the midst of her Barbie tea-party just "in case" she took a notion to come downstairs. All in the name of "saving" her, of course!

As they grew older, they got TOY guns (actually each got a 10/22 at birth but they didn't get to shoot them until later). They were welcome to go on walks with dad or mom and tote their toy wooden guns, and we'd observe their strict attention to safety with muzzle direction, fence climbing, etc. We'd weave around when walking and distract them, and walk by the neighbor's house and so on, always seeing if we could trick them into pointing the muzzle at a place they shouldn't. They got good.

Later, the same with pellet or bb guns, unloaded, then loaded, then .22's, etc., and by the time they were 10-12 years old, they were people you'd be comfortable walking through the woods with them behind you toting a high-powered rifle or shotgun.

I also TRICKED them into thinking my gun was unloaded but slipped a round into the chamber, and 'accidentally' touched one off into a nearby 55 gallon drum. The noise alone scared the bejeebers out of them. Taught them that even if an ADULT says a gun is unloaded, they may be WRONG.

They got good enough to spot other adult's careless behavior and rat them out.

The neighbor's cat had a tumor and was terminal, and although he had guns, he couldn't bring himself to do the task when the cat was in terminal writhing agony, and so he came over one night and asked me to do it; he didn't want to be there and I told him I'd do it and bury the poor thing. I ordinarily would just have put a .32-20 in the head and quietly ended things with humane but not grisly death. Since the kids were young, I used number 7 shot from a 12 gauge. Death was still instantaneous and just as humane, but was graphically illustrative of the horrible results possible with a gun. Up to that point, all they'd seen was deer I'd bring out of the woods with a nice neat hole in the chest, but to see something live torn to dead pieces was a lesson they needed to see at that point (I'd not do that to a kid who hadn't seen some of the 'good' side of guns first, nor one who hadn't seen at least some blood and guts before - but our kids had all helped to dress deer and chickens at that point.)

GunVault 'finger-safes' hold handguns ready for a trip to the chicken coop or anything more serious, and everything else is locked in the regular safe; front row IS loaded, so there is a long gun appropriate for the more basic tasks which might be urgent on a farmstead.

Everyone of shooting age (in our community that means over 12-14 years of age) in the house should know, without review, what to do to a) safely shoot, or b) render inert, breakopen, bolt, lever, pump, and semiautomatic firearms that are kept in the household.

Teaching newbies and kids to shoot, I always first use a bolt action .22 with a red-dot scope, shot with hearing protectors from a solid padded rest, at steel flip-up targets. They ALWAYS hit the targets that way, and there is not much startling noise, and no recoil. If you do that, they will work up gradually (sometimes in a matter of a few hours) to shooting .30-06's and .44 Magnums and ENJOY it. Give a novice a loud, recoiling gun, or expect them to hold it and aim it for the first time, and they are much likelier to decide shooting is just not for them. I've known many women whose husbands and boyfriends or relatives let them shoot something from a standing position or something noisy and high recoil the first time they shot a gun - and ruined the sport for them.

Although I'm not a real "AR" fan, the collapsable stock AR's are the ONLY long guns (including the many commercial "kid's" .22's) I've seen where a small kid can really get hold of the gun, mount it to their shoulder, rather than under their armpit, and without scrunching their head down in some awkward position, actually look straight through the sights. The peeps are intuitive, the gun is rugged, and has a flash hider which does double duty as an anti-mud device if they hold it pointed down and have short legs. All you have to do is put a .22LR adapter in it, and they are ready to go. Later on, they can learn to scrunch and crawl and get their eyes into position for a scope, or learn how to use the open sight, and they can gripe about how the AR has a sight axis that is "too high" - but for a kid, the shorty AR with a .22LR kit is near perfect.

Besides, when they turn about 12 years old, they can start feeding it "real" ammo, and .223 will do a good job for them as a training round. Plus they have a nice EBR.

Of course, when they "mature" they will get a lever gun....

[Ysabel Kid]

I also TRICKED them into thinking my gun was unloaded but slipped a round into the chamber, and 'accidentally' touched one off into a nearby 55 gallon drum. The noise alone scared the bejeebers out of them. Taught them that even if an ADULT says a gun is unloaded, they may be WRONG.

AJ - excellent recommendation! Even adults make mistakes, and it is important for kids to understand that they can not tolerate unsafe gun handling by ANYONE!

Teaching newbies and kids to shoot, I always first use a bolt action .22 with a red-dot scope, shot with hearing protectors from a solid padded rest, at steel flip-up targets. They ALWAYS hit the targets that way, and there is not much startling noise, and no recoil. If you do that, they will work up gradually (sometimes in a matter of a few hours) to shooting .30-06's and .44 Magnums and ENJOY it. Give a novice a loud, recoiling gun, or expect them to hold it and aim it for the first time, and they are much likelier to decide shooting is just not for them. I've known many women whose husbands and boyfriends or relatives let them shoot something from a standing position or something noisy and high recoil the first time they shot a gun - and ruined the sport for them.

I do the same. I always start off children with the .22 (if an airgun isn't available). I try to do that with adults as well. At the very least I go with very mild target loads in something like a .38 Special. I hate seeing people turned off from shooting - or worse, hurt - due to some fool handing them a cannon and expecting they will like shooting it without any previous experience.

Of course, when they "mature" they will get a lever gun....

Priceless!!!