Targets: A little rant...

[Old Ironsights]

I have to admit, I don't like paper targets.

Oh, punching tiny holes at 50ft with a .22 to win a trophy/medal is interesting enough I suppose, but in general, beyond simple sighting in I really hate paper.

Maybe it's because optics & I don't get along and I cant see the holes, or maybe I'm just too dang lazy to hike 100 yds out and back again to staple up another paper plate after every 5 shots... or after the wind has blown the target off the backer, or, or, or...

I never shoot from the bench anyway, so the point of a gun that can shoot sub MOA paper cloverleafs is almost immaterial - unless you are one of the very few sub-moa offhand shooters out there...

I like steel. I've got a 10" armor plate gong rated for 3300fps at point of impact. I'm likely to pick up a 5" here in the next few months.

If a man can pick up a rifle and hit a 5" gong with every shot, offhand, at whatever his chosen distance from 50yds out, I don't see that he's got anything to worry about - ever - with his rifle (or handgun for that matter). Heck, 10" is still killzone on most big game.

You shoot, you hit, you know. No mucking around with spotting scopes or traipsing back and forth except to pick the thing up to go home.

And yet, most ranges are scared to death of steel - even properly designed armorplate swingers at 100yds (unless they are shooting SASS or somthing and then it's ok to shoot mild steel at 25yds ).

Proper swingers deflect the bullets down. Proper resetables deflect them up and into the berm. Unless you are within 25yds you are in no danger of riccochet or backsplash with a properly designed target.

I just don't get it why people get so uptight about shooting steel.

[Don McDowell]

Its sort of amazing that bpcr bullets usually just to to splash even as far as 1000 yds when they smack into hard steel. Once inawhile one will bounce back mostly intact, but chances are it was tumbling when it hit.
I have a swinger that's made from hanging an old railroad frog plate one a pipe with chains on each end. It sits at 270 yds from our upstairs deck. When we go to paint it, most of the lead is undistinguishable, and there's just a thin trench in the ground just below the plate.
As far as seeing things goes, I much prefer a pair of 20 or 30 power binoculars to a spotting scope, muche easier to see things with 2 eyes.

[Andrew]

I like paper. I like the way I can look at the pattern and POI.

I like my .22 spinner too. I have only got it out one time, but it was a blast and I got good at hitting that 1" peice at about 40yds. I never could hold a group that small at that distance on paper though, kinda odd to me.

I have never had the chance to shoot gongs or any topple-able targets.

Those fury targets are nice but hard to find sometimes and their only good for one or two shots(most of the time). Plus, you can't leave them hanging in the garage all winter either.

[Old Ironsights]

Its sort of amazing that bpcr bullets usually just to to splash even as far as 1000 yds when they smack into hard steel. Once inawhile one will bounce back mostly intact, but chances are it was tumbling when it hit.
I have a swinger that's made from hanging an old railroad frog plate one a pipe with chains on each end. It sits at 270 yds from our upstairs deck. When we go to paint it, most of the lead is undistinguishable, and there's just a thin trench in the ground just below the plate.
As far as seeing things goes, I much prefer a pair of 20 or 30 power binoculars to a spotting scope, muche easier to see things with 2 eyes.

I don't have binocular vision... can't use em.

If I'm understanding your first sentance, you have seen BPCR bullets splash back as far as 1000 yds? Is this from immobile plate or a swinger? From BPCR soft lead? How is that possible? I could see a deflection from a knockdown target like a LaRue or a Ram angling a bullet into a long outward trajectory, but a reflective trajectory would take some mighty odd circumstances especially from a hanging swinger but even from an immobile down-deflecting plate....

[Don McDowell]

Yes I've watched bullets as far as 1000 yds just turn to lead splash when they hit the steel targets. There might be just a piece of the base to be found but for the most part they'll just turn to dust and chunks. Unless they are tumling when they get there then they don't go to pieces so bad. Sometimes there'll be a chunk come back a few yards from the target, and kick some dust, but not often.

[FWiedner]

I have to admit, I don't like paper targets.

Oh, punching tiny holes at 50ft with a .22 to win a trophy/medal is interesting enough I suppose, but in general, beyond simple sighting in I really hate paper.

Maybe it's because optics & I don't get along and I cant see the holes, or maybe I'm just too dang lazy to hike 100 yds out and back again to staple up another paper plate after every 5 shots... or after the wind has blown the target off the backer, or, or, or...

I never shoot from the bench anyway, so the point of a gun that can shoot sub MOA paper cloverleafs is almost immaterial - unless you are one of the very few sub-moa offhand shooters out there...

I like steel. I've got a 10" armor plate gong rated for 3300fps at point of impact. I'm likely to pick up a 5" here in the next few months.

If a man can pick up a rifle and hit a 5" gong with every shot, offhand, at whatever his chosen distance from 50yds out, I don't see that he's got anything to worry about - ever - with his rifle (or handgun for that matter). Heck, 10" is still killzone on most big game.

You shoot, you hit, you know. No mucking around with spotting scopes or traipsing back and forth except to pick the thing up to go home.

And yet, most ranges are scared to death of steel - even properly designed armorplate swingers at 100yds (unless they are shooting SASS or somthing and then it's ok to shoot mild steel at 25yds ).

Proper swingers deflect the bullets down. Proper resetables deflect them up and into the berm. Unless you are within 25yds you are in no danger of riccochet or backsplash with a properly designed target.

I just don't get it why people get so uptight about shooting steel.

They probably saw this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABGIJwiGBc

[Old Ironsights]

Yes I've watched bullets as far as 1000 yds just turn to lead splash when they hit the steel targets. There might be just a piece of the base to be found but for the most part they'll just turn to dust and chunks. Unless they are tumling when they get there then they don't go to pieces so bad. Sometimes there'll be a chunk come back a few yards from the target, and kick some dust, but not often.

Oh THAT kind of splash. I thought you meant splash-back... which is what the naysayers claim will cause them to get sued to death if people bring/shoot steel.

Yeah, I have actually collected splash for re-melting. Much easier than mining a dirt pile. Yet another reason to shoot steel rather than paper in these days of high lead costs.

[Old Ironsights]

They probably saw this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABGIJwiGBc

Who knows what those morons were shooting at. They said "steel" but it sure as heck couldn't have been a swinger. And no mfg I know makes a 50bmg rated swinger anyway.

Lets see, FMJ, Immobile steel (Who knows what... a pieceof Rail?), Rocks below it, short range (100yds! with a BMG!). Sounds like a riccochet waiting to happen to people too stupid to own a bbgun.

http://www.madogre.com/Archives/June%202007.htm 6-27-07: BOOM HEADSHOT! This is amazing. Willie, the father of Tina, who made the sandbag rests fires a .50BMG, an Armalite AR-50 and it ricochets off of a steel plate that it should have easily penetrated. The bullet comes straight back and hits him in the head. You can see it hit the dirt about 15 feet in front on him before it clobbers him. Luckily he was uninjured. He's a bit sore today, but otherwise fine. Lucky lucky bastard. He has been advised to buy lottery tickets while he still has so much luck. I don't know about the timing, but you can hear the hit on the steel plate. Time that till the impact on Willie's head... how fast is that 750 grain slug traveling? The range is 100 yards. Amazing.

It had to have hit a couple of things at just the right angles because no bullet is going to come straight back like a raquetball...

These guys are great: https://www.metaltargets.com/SpinningTargets.htm

Besides their gongs, they make this fun (if pricy) one:



Head-shots only. A hit spins the BG head to the other side of the "hostage".

[Don McDowell]

As long as its a flat piece of steel I don't think it makes any difference if its fixed postion, or swinging, the chances of a lead or standard cup and core jacketed bullet coming back are really really small. A rounded piece such as a disc(farm emplement) blade can be problematic , and some of the ultra slow loads ,and powder burn close ranges,the Cas bunch shoots I could see being a problem.

Also know of one incident envolving magnum 5's in a 12 ga, a concrete floored chicken house, and a skunk , that had things a little tense till the shot stopped rattlin around in the middle of the night one time.

[El Chivo]

what about those polyhedral kind that flip over, but always leave you with a target to hit the next time.

I think steel can bounce back like a racquetball, but that's with a hard bullet, FMJ or something. When we spot for silhouette the lead bullets appear to liquify right there. We never find intact or deformed bullets from the targets. Misses sometimes go in the soft dirt intact.

I was listening to a call-in show on the radio and a guy was describing how he went out shooting his .22, and he took a shot at a pine tree. He must've hit a knot, and the bullet came straight back and hit him in the throat. He said he could see it coming, it didn't penetrate the skin, but hurt like crazy.

[morgan in nm]

I like steel depending on what type of firearm I am shooting. I have had problems shooting pistol cartridges and having them come back so I use paper for them. I also like paper for sighting in a scoped rifle. When I was younger, everybody around here liked to shoot at rams and it wasn't untill I went to the Army that I used paper.

Just a side note, for those who have problems seeing POI on steel rams, a friend of mine has a solution for that. He paints the rams white and lets them dry for a while. When he sets them up, he hastily paints them with a flat black out of a spray can and when he hits, he can see the white splash and adjust. It works.

[AJMD429]

I have to admit, I don't like paper targets.

Me either... (other than for sighting in)!

I like steel. I've got a 10" armor plate gong rated for 3300fps at point of impact. I'm likely to pick up a 5" here in the next few months.

Where in the heck did you get a gong that can tolerate those velocities? I see ones advertized as "ok for centerfire high velocity" then the fine print says something like "using non-jacketed bullets up to 2400 fps..."

I'd like ones with some sort of holes at 90 degree angles (i.e. at "1:30" and "10:30") from the center, so I can use a wire or cord to hang them, or ones I could weld a nut or chain link or ring to (the holes seem to work best in the long run).

Ideally, I'd like to have something you could use stock ball ammo in a Garand or AR-15 on; then I know all the rest would be ok. I've ruined several "tough" gongs just by using my muzzleloader with jacketed SOFT POINT 240 grain PISTOL bullets!

[Old Ironsights]

Where in the heck did you get a gong that can tolerate those velocities? I see ones advertized as "ok for centerfire high velocity" then the fine print says something like "using non-jacketed bullets up to 2400 fps...:

http://metaltargets.com/ Look at their High Velocity gongs.

This explains their target ratings: http://metaltargets.com/AboutOurTargets ... atings.htm

Oh, and my bad. It's not 3300fps at impact, it's 3200fps at impact.

High-Velocity: .223, .308, .30-30, .30-06 .45-70 & equivalents.
At point of impact, terminal velocity can not exceed 3200 ft/sec. (minimum range) 100 yards Brinell) 500+

Relatively inexpensive and freestanding. No Chains required. My 10" HV with stand cost less than $150 delivered... and arrived in less than a week from the time I placed the order.

Here is their guarantee:

Our Guarantee
If you shoot any caliber closer then 25 yards you may be hit with bullet splatter.
If you shoot any rifle calibers closer then 100 yards the target will be damaged.
If you use steel core ammo or belted magnum rifle calibers the target will be damaged.
If you do not paint and lubricate your target's moving parts it will rust and will stop functioning properly.
We also guarantee that if you use your target properly and it fails due to a manufacturing flaw we will repair it at NO COST TO YOU.

The Army LOVES one of metal spinning targets products: http://www.6mmbr.com/reactivetargets.html#ArmyTEST

Read this article: http://www.6mmbr.com/reactivetargets.html about high velocity targets and comments about Metal Spinning Targets products (among others).

MST's good folk.