OT - AR-15 can do it all...

[6pt-sika]

I've been considering a fully camo AR-10 in 308 or 300RSUM for a couple years now !

I just don't like the idea of the thing slinging my brass all over the country side when I hunting !

With a bolt or lever action I have become pretty good at catching the brass with my off hand when I work the action .

Yeah I reload

[MistWolf]

I've been considering a fully camo AR-10 in 308 or 300RSUM for a couple years now !

I just don't like the idea of the thing slinging my brass all over the country side when I hunting !

With a bolt or lever action I have become pretty good at catching the brass with my off hand when I work the action .

Yeah I reload

I hear ya! I had a 1909 Argentine chambered for 6mm as a kid that I could work the bolt and catch the brass (my son has it now) but when I switched to a Remington 700, I'd pinch my finger between the locking lug and the rear of the action. And when the action with jackrabbits got hot, I'd scatter the brass all over creation anyway!

[6pt-sika]

I've been considering a fully camo AR-10 in 308 or 300RSUM for a couple years now !

I just don't like the idea of the thing slinging my brass all over the country side when I hunting !

With a bolt or lever action I have become pretty good at catching the brass with my off hand when I work the action .

Yeah I reload

I hear ya! I had a 1909 Argentine chambered for 6mm as a kid that I could work the bolt and catch the brass (my son has it now) but when I switched to a Remington 700, I'd pinch my finger between the locking lug and the rear of the action. And when the action with jackrabbits got hot, I'd scatter the brass all over creation anyway!

About all the shooting I do is either at the range where I single load or in the deer woods from a treestand .

For me it's not that hard to cup my left hand around the action on a bolt or lever and catch the brass while my right hand works the bolt or lever !

This has worked wonders for me over the years and there have been quite a few times when I have taken 2 or 3 deer in about a minute ! By no means a speed demon , but I like to think proficient !

[6pt-sika]

I think there are some comparativly light catcher bag things to hook on the side of an AR !

If I were to ever get a AR-10 in 308 or 300RSUM I would have to have a brass catcher for the side ! I ca't imagine loosing 300RSUM brass every time I shot the rifle !

[donw]

one other thing...unfortunately, the AR may soon be delegated to the pages of history if congress re-enacts the AWB...it nearly is here in california...

[Slick]

I’m weird – an aberration so to speak… Why? I like firearms. It’s easy for me to “prove” my love of lever-action guns as well as my desire to collect bolt-action C&R type rifles (as I have many). I’m one of those “strange people who appreciates HISTORY” – so go figure…

What distresses me is that in my travels through life – it seems to me that people that like older (antique or lever-action firearms) hold other gun owners in some sort of “contempt”.

I’m free of such binds! I seem to have elevated to the status of having an appreciation of “all firearms” (assuming they are made with quality in mind). I own many lever-action rifles – yet also own military C&R’s and semi-auto rifles popular in the 19th century!

Why anyone could start a debate on the “worthiness” of any semi-auto rifle is beyond me…

In participating in numerous forums – the resident folks on semi-auto forums have NO problem recognizing the value and history of lever-action guns. Yet when I visit forums that cater to lever-guns, I often see “jabs” or other disparaging comments against semi-auto firearms and their owners. And here I am – all this time thinking that lever-gunners had the “high-road”… Well, in my world – it’s not to be so. I’ve seen the light and it belongs to our brothers that understand that our rights are about firearms – not what kind of “paint-job” they may have. I’d never have guessed that “black-rifle-guys” could have a more defined and logical approach to firearms ownership. But times are telling indeed…

[O.S.O.K.]

slick - agree 100% and me too.

donw - I think we are going to be seeing a lot of law suits challenging such idiotic bans. The Heller v DC case spelled out that semi auto sporters are considered commonly in use....

The antis are in a panic and hurrying to try and introduce rediculous legislation that is doomed to failure.

They are in a state of denial that the SCOTUS shot down their ongoing scheme to religate the 2A to the history books.

[donw]

O.S.O.K....

i agree with you...i, however, DO NOT believe congress and many other legislators will let the SCOTUS ruling affect their agenda...diane feinstein for one...i think they do darned well what THEY want to, regardless...

i hope the lawsuits bring many cities, municpalities, etc to their knees...i see nothing wrong with a semi-auto handgun or "black" rifle...as long as it's not used unlawfully.

what i fear is the resultant wave of 'anti' legislation that is sure to surface such as is pending in california about ammunition: "no more than 50 rds per month may be passed between private parties" and to purchase ammo, one must get a permit, etc...

to you and i it is "ridiculous"...to a legislator's demented mind and reasoning, it makes perfect sense..."if i can't get to 'em one way, i'll get to 'em another way..."

[Old Ironsights]

I don't want to give the anti's any ideas on what I thing would "fly" as "reasonable regulation" under Heller.

I've worked it out and suffice it to say, you have no idea how bad it could be.

[O.S.O.K.]

Well, one could say that the primary benefit of Heller v DC is that it will lend moral credence to the upcoming rebellion...

I've been around long enough and seen enough to worry about the things that I know are now working to bring our country down.

National debt at $500,000 per capita. We are currently not even paying the annual interest on this debt.
We are running annual deficits in spite of the national debt which shows that our govt. is ignoring the problem.
Social Security will be bankrupt soon.

We run on a capitalistic supply/demand economy. Our system has no way to handle this kind of debt and there is no way we can sustain the entitlement programs.

Now, throw-in the current trend in the cost of commodities - not just oil but all commodities...

Think about the ramifications.

we are walking a tight rope and soon will err and fall off.

That's when we get upset enough to act.

People will only act when they are uncomfortable enough for the possible gains to be worth the risk.

[Hillbilly]

sorta on topic........ if any of you guys has a good lower or a good, mid- quality A2 20inch AR rifle with the 5.56 chamber to sell let me know.
Looking for a Bushy or better if you know what I mean.

J

[tman]

after rereading the post, i'll still go with the m4. the 28a1 is a better CLOSE RANGE blaster. the m14 will hit harder at longer range, but it's long and heavy close up. m4 will take big game to 200 yards and be a close, tight quarters weapon. it all depends on your definition of doing it all.

[99savage308]

OSOk,

AR-15 can do it all.....

My dribble on the subject.

I agree with you, up to a certain point and I don't agree the AR can do it all. I don't agree with the notion the 94 can do it all, up to a certain point. The AR is a wonder and I think the 308 ww platform makes a GREAT all around rifle. THE 223 rem I'm not impressed with at all. The boys over there in the land of sand are finding that out. They want more power to kill at long distance. Lets face it, one puts a 30 cal bullet into a target at long range or close, something is going to die real quick. That 30 cal bullet has proven itself since the 30-40 Krag. The bad guys, have been shooting a 30 cal since WWI. So what do we do when we want to replace that oldddddddd M14 and that over power 308, we go with a 223 rem. which is nothing more than the old Savage 22 hi-power remade. Now this new rifle and cartridge was decided upon and picked at a cook out in a back yard after shooting water melons by the man himself commanding the Air Force. For the love of god what was that about.

The 94 has proven it can do the job,up to a certain point. The thing with the 94 they don't make 'em any more. When Winchester wanted to goto a larger cartridge, they had to beef up the receiver. The dang thing looked like it was with child and then they could only go so far and stop.Still no 308 ww. Now Marlin on the other hand. It can go big up to a certain point and still look good. Marlin still is limited due to the pressure thing. Still no 308 ww.

Yes sir you are right the AR can do it all up to a point and a limit. For the every day man whom has a lil money to spare for a hunting rifle close range and close to home the lever action 94 or any other of that type get the nod, because of MONEY. The AR costs some real bucks and I don't agree with the cost,for the average guy raising a family. I will say the AR-15 platform gets my pick in the 308 ww. You do understand the realllllllllllllll big game hunters will want a 416 Rigby AR-15. Hey what a thought ...416 Rigby AR -15

I have to add this to all the above. The M14 had it all and the M14 is still being used in the land of sand.

nuf said from a guy who keeps a lil ol 30 cal. M1 carbine close by with 30 rnd mag and two 15 rnd mags on the butt pouch. Remembe: please be careful out there
.

[donw]

for CQB, especially inside a structure, i'd rather have the A5 or 870...(and, incidently, i do own a 5.56 kel-tec carbine; it's a great 'fun gun', too.)

i agree that the selection of the 5.56/223 as a combat cartridge is a poor one. too much evidence supporting that belief, too.

for LEO and SD the 5.56/223 is probably marginal but acceptable: too small of a bullet requiring too precise of aim in stressfull situation or rely on multiple rapid shots in succession which in turn may result in unintended bullet strikes/richochet.

i also agree the 5.56/223 has been given more credibility due to the AR platform; it certainly is not a "powerhouse" cartridge. it is a good 'small game' round, though; coyote, jackrabbit, wood chuck, etc

i'm sure that it does meet some mission requirements but it looks as though the military is thinking about WHICH missions...

again, i believe it was adopted (the AR 5.56) for $$$$$$ reasons more than it being a 'better mouse trap'.

[O.S.O.K.]

sorta on topic........ if any of you guys has a good lower or a good, mid- quality A2 20inch AR rifle with the 5.56 chamber to sell let me know.
Looking for a Bushy or better if you know what I mean.

J

Well, I don't but I can recommend that you buy a rifle kit from http://www.del-ton.com and a lower from http://www.aimsurplus.com and but it together yourself. Its a piece of cake - no special tools required - directions are posted on ar15.com and other places. You avoid the excise tax on all but the $100 lower by doing this. Really hard to beat the price and they are very good quality.

I built one this way and its a pip.

$465 for kit + $45 extra for chromed barrel (I highly recommend) + $100 for the lower + FFL transfer fee and shipping.

$610 plus $25 + $20 = $655 for a quality rifle. Hard to beat that. And if you want a 16" of just about any configuration - same price.

[shawn_c992001]

I'm surprised you don't see more 7.62x39 AR's than you do, as it is similar ballistically to the great old 30-30. I can't understand the switch to the .223 either, "because you can carry more ammo" ??? I mean please, it takes multiple hits with a 223 to achieve the same results as a .308, come on. I do believe there will be another switch in the near future, possibly to the 6.8SPC or even a different round all together. Olny time will tell on this one, but I do believe it's on it's way.

I work with a guy who spent some time in the sand. He absolutely hates the .223 for combat use. He stated that when struck with multiple rounds even from different angles, insurgents kept going for a short time. Except when struck in the pelvis, or directly in the skull. He stated that what works best is the 50BMG, the .308 in the M24 and M14 DMR, the shot gun, and the 9mm in certain situations.

[donw]

shawn...

i think if you'll check your loading manuals you are correct...the 7.62x39 is on a par with the 30-30.

out of all the men i knew in the VN war, only one of them kept his m-16, if given the chance to get another weapon. i personally did not have the option as i was there prior to the m-16...we used the m-1 garand and m1 carbine and were just getting the m-60 MG and m14.

the trend was not started by the troopers of today to return to a more powerful cartridge than the 5.56, but by the troopers who spent the time in the bush in 'nam struggling to clear a jam...

we were trained that the 30-06 had a "maximum effective range of 500 yards" in basic training (which we all know is NOT correct) and present day training tells soldiers the 5.56 "maximum effective range is 550 meters"...am i missing something? did the 5.56 overcome the 30-06 ballistically?

where today's m-16 platform may be more reliable than the m-16 of 'nam, it still is anemic as a combat cartridge as it ever was.

i'm sure the debate will continue...but as for me? give me the .308/7.62 or 30-06...

[O.S.O.K.]

They have 7.62x39 AR's - buy you are right, you don't see many of em.

And I understand that the 70 grain loads are somewhat better and preferred by SF units.

But I too agree that we need a better general issue caliber and while they're at it - an entirely new rifle or at least a piston upgrade to the existing receivers. Purchased in large quantities, the piston upgrades can't run that much a unit - they aren't that complicated and offer a true upgrade in reliablility. The 6.8 uses existing mags right?

Unfortunately, I don't see any change due to budget constraints and such in the near future. Especially if Iran continues it's path towards war...

I may have posted this already but my own personal first-choice, go-to black rifle is this:

Saiga 308 conversion with FBMG 20 round mags. Punch, reliability and adequate accuracy (easy 2"/100 meter groups with irons).

[salvo]

Check out this video, her Dad must be proud!
http://shock.military.com/Shock/vide...Content=171268

[Old Ironsights]

I love being a Political Smart-butt...

One of these would be about the coolest thing to take to an "Anti-EBR" function:



It's an EBR!... No, wait, it's a PUMP action... but, it's an EBR... but it's not semi-auto... but it looks evil... but... but... but...

BOOM! (Sound of antigunner head exploding...)

[Lastmohecken]

I don't know if the AR-15 can do it all, but it is more useful then some might think. I personally have not owned since the 80's until lately. However, I have decided to get back into AR's due to the fears associated with the upcomming election. I have already purchased an Bushmaster M4 clone, and I am building another lower with a RRA's two stage match trigger.

I have also put a DSA FAL in .308 on layway, because it's time to get this stuff while I still can, and this time, I am not getting rid of it.

MOLON LABE
"COME AND GET THEM"

[mklwhite]

hes' right..the AR plaform can do it all.

Except without the classic flair and style a grand blued steel and walnut lever can do it with.

Sometimes style trumps substance.

Hill