Random Thoughts About The .45 Colt

[JimT]

The original factory loads were pretty powerful. With an advertised bullet weight of 250 gr. at a velocity of 910 fps, it created over 460 foot pounds of muzzle energy. I once re-created those loadings using original REM-UMC balloon-head cases and 40 gr. of Dupont 3Fg blackpowder. I used the Lyman bullet #454190 which is a faithful reproduction of the original factory bullet except it is not hollow-based like the originals were. In my 7 1/2" Ruger .45 these loads averaged 962 fps and produced a muzzle energy of 532 ft. lbs.! No wimps by any means.

45colt inside primed.png

Inside Primed .45 Colt .. this is not rimfire .. it is a centerfire with primer inside the cartridge

IMG_8814.JPG

Balloon-head (left) Solid head (right)

In the 1980s some ammo companies tried to heat up the .45 a bit by going to a light bullet at what used to be normal velocities for this cartridge. Their use of a light bullet defeated the whole purpose of the .45 and my use of them has been less than satisfactory. Most are advertised at 1000 fps or so but in actual use do not exceed or sometimes even equal what you can get with a heavier bullet and a full load of black powder. I shot some dogs and a few coyotes with various loads and was never satisfied with the performance I got. On a coyote some loads would not penetrate completely on a crossways shot. And a coyote is not very thick.

When handloaders started pushing heavy bullets from the .45 Colt in the big Ruger single actions there were all kinds of warnings about weak .45 Colt brass. It wasn't true and a few of us proved it to our own satisfaction. When the 454 Casull appeared the 454 brass was hard to get. A lot of us who were shooting them used regular old .45 Colt brass and loaded them to 454 pressures and velocities without any problems. If you compare sectioned cartridges there is no difference other than overall length. If you have a .45 Colt sixgn with tight chambers, the Colt brass will last many reloads. I have recorded more than 20 reloads with R-P cartridges (which at the time were rumored to be the weakest) fired through my tight Linebaugh .45 Colt.

IMG_8815.JPG

454 Casull (left) 45 Colt (right)

Introduced so many years ago, the .45 Colt still lives. It outlasted those who tried to replace it. The light Smith & Wesson Schofield load has been re-introduced as a "game" cartridge due to its low noise and light recoil. Until then it had been as dead as the man who designed it. Poor Major Schofield, depressed about the poor sales performance of his design, used one to kill himself down at old Ft Bowie in the Arizona Territory. The Colt Single Action and the .45 Colt ammo outlasted them all.

IMG_8820.JPG

Not back to shooting yet BUT I am on the road to Recovery!

[Lastmohecken]

Glad you're improving.
I like the 45 Colt. I watched Brian Pearce talking about the 45 Colt, recently, and he said that the U.S. Army actually practiced at 400 yards with those old 7.5" Calvery Colts. And that those old hollow based bullets displayed great stability at long range.

[Bill in Oregon]

A Blackhawk in .45 Colt is at the top of my list, for all the reasons you mentioned, and more, Jim. I didn't have a chronograph to measure velocities, but years ago had a new "Old Vaquero" in .45 Colt and proceeded to load a compressed charge of FFFg under that greasy old black bullet Remington used to sell in bulk that was very close to the original. The load was powerful, accurate and just a hoot to shoot.

[Dieselman]

1000020804_jpg-3652071.JPG

You are speaking my language. I Love the 45 Colt! It is quite possibly my favorite cartridge or at least in the top 5 anyhow. Last year I used my Rossi 92 chambered in 45 Colt to take my deer . I was using a Nosler 250 gr semi jacketed hollow point over a healthy quantity of H110. I shot the buck broadside behind the shoulder. The buck tensed up and fell over dead without taking a step. The bullet did a complete pass through taking out the heart and both lungs and was not recovered.

The versatility of the cartridge is what I enjoy so much about it. I load anywhere between 200 gr to 335 gr bullets and from very mild to very wild. I really enjoy my Ruger Redhawk in 45 Colt. With it I can fire 45acp, 45 Schofield and 45 Colt through the same gun. I also have an original Vaquero in 45 Colt as well.

I haven't yet loaded up any 45 Colt with Blackpowder simply because I have no blackpowder. I loaded up a half dozen with pyrodex once, but then chose not to fire them just because I didn't want the cleanup.

About 25 years ago I had a Tuarus 450 snub nose 45 Colt revolver. Regrettably I traded it for a CZ-75. I have been looking for another one ever sense, but haven't been able to find one. Of course shortly afterwards, Tuarus discontinued the 450 and replaced it with the judge, which I have no interest in what so ever.

[Bill in Oregon]

I got to handle one of those Taurus snubs in .45 Colt a few years back at the Otero County shooting range in La Luz, NM. I was quite taken with it and wish they had not been discontinued.

[samsi]

I was always a 44 mag guy. My first exposure to the Colt was shooting with some friends, a married couple. He was shooting a Singer 1911 but his wife had a 45 Blackhawk and she could shoot.

We finished up by killing some cinder blocks and my 29 was punching large holes, but her 45 made the blocks vaporize in a couple cases. I realized there was some magic going on that I did not understand.

[Dieselman]

I got to handle one of those Taurus snubs in .45 Colt a few years back at the Otero County shooting range in La Luz, NM. I was quite taken with it and wish they had not been discontinued.

It really was a good little revolver. Only thing similar now that is available is the Charter Arms 45 snub, but it doesn't get the greatest reviews.

[.45colt]

Around 1982 a friend had a Blackhawk .45 colt and brought it here wanting to sell it with a box of Rem 250 factory loads . He was a lunatick and had just bought a Super Blackhawk in .44 mag. He was blasting away with the .44 and I didn't care for it at all. I shot 1 cylinder thru that .45 and was hooked. All shots landed on the target about 30 yards away, no big deal. I had it a few years and I think it was 1985 Ruger came out with the Bisley. bought one asap. I have loaded that sucker with some pretty hot loads including the 330 grain Gould 45-70 hollow point sized down. most of the rounds were the Lyman Keith bullet, my mould drops them 268 grains over 18.5 of 2400. That Bisley is all I could ever ask for in a revolver. John Linebaugh wrote about His wife shooting end to end on a Pronghorn with a factory equivalent load at 90 yards. .

[JimT]

Around 1982 a friend had a Blackhawk .45 colt and brought it here wanting to sell it with a box of Rem 250 factory loads . He was a lunatick and had just bought a Super Blackhawk in .44 mag. He was blasting away with the .44 and I didn't care for it at all. I shot 1 cylinder thru that .45 and was hooked. All shots landed on the target about 30 yards away, no big deal. I had it a few years and I think it was 1985 Ruger came out with the Bisley. bought one asap. I have loaded that sucker with some pretty hot loads including the 330 grain Gould 45-70 hollow point sized down. most of the rounds were the Lyman Keith bullet, my mould drops them 268 grains over 18.5 of 2400. That Bisley is all I could ever ask for in a revolver. John Linebaugh wrote about His wife shooting end to end on a Pronghorn with a factory equivalent load at 90 yards. .

Yessir, they will do it. I killed a buck at about 60 yards or so using the Keith bullet at around 900 to 1000 fps. I hit it in the left front and the bullet exited the right rear hip. It did not move out of its tracks.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Boy that rim on those original cartridges is barely there. I'm not sure of the history on 45 Colt but I'm wondering why they went with such a small rim. It must have been to fit into some existing circle they had to work with.

[Dieselman]

Boy that rim on those original cartridges is barely there. I'm not sure of the history on 45 Colt but I'm wondering why they went with such a small rim. It must have been to fit into some existing circle they had to work with.

Thats why there were no 45 colt lever guns until the late 20th century. That rim wouldn't work in a rifle. If the original rim size would have been like it is today, 44-40 may have not been as popular.

[Lastmohecken]

Boy that rim on those original cartridges is barely there. I'm not sure of the history on 45 Colt but I'm wondering why they went with such a small rim. It must have been to fit into some existing circle they had to work with.

Thats why there were no 45 colt lever guns until the late 20th century. That rim wouldn't work in a rifle. If the original rim size would have been like it is today, 44-40 may have not been as popular.

Correct! I think it's harder to handload without messing up brass, somewhat, but I think the 44/40 might feed and extract more reliably in a leveraction. I have only owned one 45 leveraction, a Yellowboy 66, and it worked good, but I have had issues with 44 mags in leveractions, finding them to be a bit finnicky in feeding, in the Winchester 94 and 92, and the older J.M. Marlin 1894.

[fordwannabe]

Yeah I have a couple in 45 Colt like this old junker

IMG_0146.jpeg

IMG_0150.jpeg

IMG_0149.jpeg

IMG_0150.jpeg

[Walt]

I love .45 Colts. It's my favorite caliber but I don't hotrod them; I have a .454 for that. I have 9 of them in single actions, mostly Rugers but also a couple of SAAs, a Freedom Arms, a couple of double action Smiths and a couple of lever actions. It's a wonderful caliber and the last one I would ever want to part with.

[oldebear1950]

I have an Uberti EL PATRON with 5 1/2 inch barrel in 45 colt. I also have a ROSSI R92. LEVER GUN marketed under Heritage Firearms, with 20 inch barrel.
And like all COLTS, AND copies of colts other than rugers, that EL PATRON I keep with 5 rounds in the cylinder. Load one, skip one and load the other holes , fully cock and have the hammer rest on an empty hole in the cylinder

[Bill in Oregon]

How does your Heritage lever gun shoot, oldebear?

[fordwannabe]

And this one! 12.5 inch barrel!

IMG_2324.jpeg

IMG_0073.jpeg

[AJMD429]

.
A SBR levergun in 45 Colt with a suppressor is close to the do-it-all gun. Maybe even better if they'd make one with integral suppression say in 18". They'd have to do an angle/jog of the magazine tube, but it shouldn't be that hard to do. They could call it the [Marlin/Winchester/Henry/Whatever] "SBD" - Silent but Deadly. 900 fps of silent 250-300 grain THUMP.

[Sarge]

How does your Heritage lever gun shoot, oldebear?

I'd like your opinion on the Heritage as well. please.

[marlinman93]

Well that's weird? I typed up a long reply on the experiments I did years ago with .45 Colt, and hit "submit". Nothing came up, it just disappeared?

[Ysabel Kid]

Very interesting and informative, Jim. Happy to see you are further on the mend!

[piller]

The .45 Colt just keeps on doing the job. I have loaded mine up, but never to max on the loading manual powder charge. It just seems to do all I want at stout loads. 300 grain jacketed bullets at 950 fps seem more accurate than I am, and probably will stop anything I need stopped. I like the .44 Mag for what it is, and mine has a pistol scope. It is long, heavy, accurate, and loud. My .45 Ruger with the 4⅝ inch barrel is handier, and that 300 grain bullet pushes, but is not a hard kick. It is also not as loud. Should a wild pig need stopped, either one will do. With my permanent balance issues, the blackhawk is more likely to be with me than the .44 Mag.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Well that's weird? I typed up a long reply on the experiments I did years ago with .45 Colt, and hit "submit". Nothing came up, it just disappeared?

I've had it happen as well. Irritating.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I’ve fired over 1,600 rounds through this USFA in the last 12 months. (The middle one) I’ve developed a deep appreciation for the.45 Colt cartridge. I’ve probably fired that much again in other .45 Colt chambered firearms.

[mickbr]

Well that's weird? I typed up a long reply on the experiments I did years ago with .45 Colt, and hit "submit". Nothing came up, it just disappeared?

Please retype it Sir, enquiring minds are interested

Thanks for history on that JimT, I sometimes wish I get got set up for 45 colt instead of 44 mag.

[marlinman93]

I've had similar experiences with the .45 Colt as JimT mentioned in his great treatise above. But I also did a lot of accuracy testing in my Model 25 S&W I used for target shooting. My goal was to find a load that was extremely accurate, but also with a lightweight bullet. I cast up some 200 gr. SWC bullets and began working up mild target loads for out to 50 yds. and less. I found the best accuracy was around 700-750 fps, and at 25 yds. I got 1" groups off my rest. The Model 25 with these loads was a dream to shoot with low recoil, and extremely good accuracy. I don't compete anymore, but I still shoot these loads for fun and love them. For hunting or defense I always stick with the old 250 gr. bullets as they're best at dropping anything I shot.

[Malamute]

Well that's weird? I typed up a long reply on the experiments I did years ago with .45 Colt, and hit "submit". Nothing came up, it just disappeared?

I've had it happen as well. Irritating.

Ive had it happen on other forums that were having bot attacks and went offline without notice or had glitches like that. I started copying the text of a reply before hitting submit, it if disappeared, I could try again without much pain by just pasting it in again until it worked.

[Griff]

I think the only reason those original, folded copper cased 45 Colt loads had any semblance of a rim was so the cartridge wouldn't fall thru the chamber, it certainly didn't need one for extraction, as that was taken care of by the rod below the barrel. I got my first one, a 2nd gen 4-¾" SAA in 1974. I will admit to an early infatuation with the 45 Auto over the 45 Colt, it only got used for plinking, whereas I could shoot my 1911s in several gun games. When I first started cowboy action shooting, I used a 3rd Gen Colt SAA 45 Colt along with a Rossi .357 carbine. I grew sorta embarrassed by the boom of the sixgun and the pop of the carbine, so when offered a 45 Colt Uberti '73 "Sporting Rifle", I jumped at it. And have never looked back. I will also admit that I never really appreciated the SAA until one day at a steel challenge type match at the Dallas Pistol club I beat all comers at the one stage they used paper targets for... The scenario had you sitting at a card table with six silhouettes across from you. Loaded pistol on the table and at the beep, place one shot on each. When they looked at the timer, they first accused me of cheating. Then... faced with the fact they couldn't figure out how, (cocking & pulling the trigger, no fanning involved), they decided the SA wasn't legal and uninvited me to return. That was the only stage I finished respectively on, as anything involving more than one reload, had me in last place. I currently have 6 rifles chambered in 45 Colt, & 4 SAs, (2 Colts & 2 clones). All of which get used far more than any of my 1911s. While my competition loads tend to run lighter, I do maintain a supply of proper SD or hunting rounds on hand). I've never fired a balloon head BP round, but I know that even a modern case full of 3F BP behind a 250 grain RN is a handful. Whether that's out of a handgun or a rifle. With Hornady's 240 grain XTP HP in front of 18.5 grains of 2400, it runs a about 1550 fps from the 20" Rossi, right at 1600 from the 24" Low Wall. But, they need to be kept far away from any Colt or clone along with the toggle link lever guns. Although I've got mine loaded with the non-Mag version, I wonder if at that velocity I should? But, in any case they're kept in a blue box, vs. the green for my smokeless loads, or red for the BP. A color code I keep all my ammo stored in... (except for my competition ammo, that's in GI cans). For a light recoiling 45 Colt I run a 160 grain RFN in front of 4.5 grains of TiteGroup for the pistols (although I have been using the Cowboy 45 Special for the handguns in competition for the past 20+ years). I use that same charge to push a 200 grain RFN from the rifles. I've found the shorter bullet tend to tumble thru paper targets @ 50+ yards when shot thru a rifle, whereas the heavier bullet seems to maintain its stability better, well out beyond a 100 yards.

[KWK]

Poor Major Schofield, depressed about the poor sales performance of his design, used one to kill himself down at old Ft Bowie in the Arizona Territory.

One source claims he had begun to suffer headaches from a brain tumor.

[JimT]

Poor Major Schofield, depressed about the poor sales performance of his design, used one to kill himself down at old Ft Bowie in the Arizona Territory.

One source claims he had begun to suffer headaches from a brain tumor.

Yes, I read that. And is quite possible.

[Scott Tschirhart]

Of course it’s impossible to diagnose Major Schofield from this time and space or to understand what he was suffering from.

Still his design continues to this day when many others have fallen by the wayside. We know his name.

[Bob Hatfield]

[quote=. John Linebaugh wrote about His wife shooting end to end on a Pronghorn with a factory equivalent load at 90 yards. .
[/quote]

That load Mr. Linebaugh's wife used was 8 grains of 231 and a 255-gr. bullet if I remember correctly from his writings. It was one of his favorite and most accurate loads for the 45 Colt.

I agree as I used it in a 45 Uberti Cattleman for a few years. Bouncing soda pop cans at 75 yards offhand would impress non-shooters at the range. Then all of a sudden after several hundred rounds, the gun would lock up and refuse to cock. That load eventually peened the firing pin hole to where primer cup material would flow back and lock up the gun.

Since this Uberti didn't have a firing pin bushing I had to "Tig" weld up that area and grind/polish it back down and re-drill the firing pin hole from the rear. I ceased using that 8 grain/255 load in the Uberti and relegated it to the Ruger. But that Tig weld is very hard as a file would glide over it and it would probably not peen the hole anymore.

[JimT]

I agree as I used it in a 45 Uberti Cattleman for a few years. Bouncing soda pop cans at 75 yards offhand would impress non-shooters at the range. Then all of a sudden after several hundred rounds, the gun would lock up and refuse to cock. That load eventually peened the firing pin hole to where primer cup material would flow back and lock up the gun.

When I began testing the 300 gr. loads in my Ruger .45 Colt I eventually did the same thing to the Ruger. The firing pin bushing was soft.

IMG_2326.JPG

I ordered 3 or 4 bushings from Ruger and using the method that Turner Kirkland wrote in the old Dixie Gun Works catalog, I case-hardened the new one and have used it since the later 1970's with heavy loads and have had no issues.

(I edited this... I said "heat treat" but it was actually case-hardening)

[Dieselman]

Brian Pearce just released a video about Colt SAA's that have lost their firing pin bushing going "full auto" by way of primers popping out and recocking the hammer. If the shooter doesn't release the trigger, the gun will fire all 5 or 6 rounds as if it were full auto. Interesting video

[Paladin]

Thanks for the info, JIMT. Glad you are mending well. I am also a fan of the .45 Colt and have a few bullet launchers in that caliber, even some Ruger OLD ARMY revolvers that don't bother with the case, new or old.

[samsi]

Brian Pearce just released a video about Colt SAA's that have lost their firing pin bushing going "full auto" by way of primers popping out and recocking the hammer. If the shooter doesn't release the trigger, the gun will fire all 5 or 6 rounds as if it were full auto. Interesting video

That's pretty crazy. Pearce really needs to write a book and get all his knowledge recorded in one place.

[Bill in Oregon]

Jim, is the bushing pressed in from inside the frame and somehow pinned? That one was really battered.

[JimT]

Jim, is the bushing pressed in from inside the frame and somehow pinned? That one was really battered.

It is pressed in from the front of the recoil plate. It has a retaining pin that goes in one side of the frame to the other. You can see the notch for it in this photo.

IMG_2327.JPG

[JimT]

The original bushing was very soft. The primer set-back on the higher pressure loads I was testing hammered it pretty hard. It probably took between 600 and 800 rounds to do that. I have fired thousands heavy loads in the gun since I case-hardened the new one back in the 1970's and it is just fine.

[fordwannabe]

Does anyone make an already hardened bushing?

[JimT]

Does anyone make an already hardened bushing?

I think most Ruger bushings are just fine. My gun was an early .45 Blackhawk and I ran it hard. I have other Rugers that I shot with heavy loads and never beat up the bushing. I had a Ruger Bisley that John Linebaugh built into .475 for me and it never gave any problems. I would not worry about it.

[piller]

With modern steel, it seems to me that a Schofield style or Smity & Wesson model 3 type in .45 Colt would be strong enough to handle standard pressure loads for a lifetime.

I wonder if a good quality one would be reasonably priced.

[COSteve]

I've got both a Uberti 19" 1866 carbine and a Uberti 24" 1873 rifle in 45 Colt. As the actions are toggle link versions, I have to stay within the standard pressures of 14,000 psi on both. I've found that 200 grn bulllets give me the velocities that produce longer effective ranges as well a good muzzle energy.

Using a standard pressure, full load of Unique, I get the following at my range at 6,100 ft asl and 87° day:

19" 1866 Carbine: 200 grn plated bullet: 1,320 fps muzzle velocity and 774 ft/lbs ME.
24" 1873 Rifle: 200 grn plated bullet: 1,370 fps muzzle velocity and 833 ft/lbs ME

[marlinman93]

Of course it’s impossible to diagnose Major Schofield from this time and space or to understand what he was suffering from.

Still his design continues to this day when many others have fallen by the wayside. We know his name.

Major Scofield was often embroiled in controversy on numerous occasions where he disagreed with his commanding officers, or subordinates. He was often backed for those decisions by Grant and even by Lincoln, but other officers criticized him for not being tougher on Confederates, and even accused him of being a Confederate sympathizer.
Scofield as a commanding general of the Army awarded himself the Congressional Medal of Honor in 1892 for the battle of Wilson's Creek in 1861. I've never been able to find what he might have done that made him award himself the Medal of Honor?
Of course we also know him for his part working with S&W on the Schofield revolver. He was accused again of getting monies from S&W for his work on the S&W, and also because his brother John was head of the Army Ordinance Board that accepted the Schofield as a standard sidearm. It turned out that S&W chambered their gun in the .45 Schofield, a shortened .45 Colt, and when it wouldn't accept .45 Colt the Army got rid of all the guns purchased.