WIN 94 Project 38-55 Numrich barrel

[BenT]

This project got started over a beer to prove a point to my neighbor. Good neighbor, I was drinking his beer. The basis of the conversation was the reason Winchester never came out with a 35 cal levergun was that ballistically the 38 -55 could meet the 35 rems ballistics with a 200 gr bullet. So I started collecting parts , using a 26' barrel to my advantage of superior velocity. Plus a long cowboy gun would be cool.




It doesn't look to bad





Now some things went well some things didn't.
The barrel was from Numrich 26' octagon ,slugged at .375. I purchased it from a member here still new . Everything about the barrel was fine until it was time to headspace. I used my brothers lathe to take off .010 of an inch off the end of the barrel. I have a few tiny nics in the barrel from the lathe jaws. The front endcap had to spread a little to fit the barrel since it isn't tapered

I cold blued the receiver . It isn't going to last . But I'll see how much I use it before I do something different. I used a Redfield peepsight .

Costs Barrel $75 / forewood $35 from Midway on sale / forend cap and tube hanger from gunshow $25 / long magazine tube from Numrich $21.
Numrich didn't have a 26' magazine spring so I used the 20' spring and a wooden dowel.

It shoots good . I tried a couple different loads. I'm using 200 gr Sierras and Win 375 load data with stated pressures at 40K to 42K CUP.

H4198 36Gr average velocity 2251 fps. 3 shot group 1 inch at 50 yards

Reloader 7 34Gr average velocity 2111 fps 3 shot group 3/4 inch at 50 yards with 2 touching.

It was awindy day so 50 yard shooting is all I could do to keep my target from blowing over. Next I'm going to get some H322 and try some more load work.

[Old Savage]

Very nice rifle and it can exceed the 35 Rem Ballistics. I really like what you did.

[Chuck 100 yd]

SWEET !! I built one like it a bunch of years ago. It was also a good shooter. Enjoy!

[Pete44ru]

I LIKE it ! !

[rjohns94]

Very nice. Not sure I have the talent or the knowledge to even begin such a project. Yours turned out very nice. thanks for sharing.

[Griff]

...and Win 375 load data with stated pressures at 40K to 42K CUP....

Personally, I'd try to keep those pressure down in the mid- to high-mid 30s, no more than 37-38,000. The only reason I suggest this is for longevity. Keep pounding something at the top of its tolerances and eventually it will fail.

[shawn_c992001]

Looks good!

[kimwcook]

Excellent project and nice post.

[Mike D.]

Lookin' GOOD, Ben. I'm thinking of doing something similar using a half octagon front end from Numrich and having it bored to .38-55.

[Hagler]

Ben,

I think a 26' barrel would be highly inconvenient to tote around. I am glad to see that you cut that barrel down to 26". 26" is much easier to carry!

Shawn

[awp101]

This isn't helping my willpower.

Good lookin' rifle!

Lookin' GOOD, Ben. I'm thinking of doing something similar using a half octagon front end from Numrich and having it bored to .38-55.

I see I'm not alone in the thought process...

[BenT]

Griff , I'm not planning on using max loads all the time. It was mainly to prove a point. I have about 200 200grain Sierras. Once they are gone I don't know if I'll get more. I've been thinking about start casting bullets. Ranch dogs coming out with a 235 gr mould that I'll probably purchase . If it works out I'll probably stick to cast.Then I'll get a tang peep and try that.

rjohn94, Win 94 's are easy to work , they don't get much simpler. Find a project gun and ask questions here and get some reference materials. It just takes patience. One piece at a time.

Mike D, it might be cheaper to get a smith to take an octagon 38-55 barrel and turn half of it down.

[Duff L Bagg]

Ben I have a couple of questions.
1) The forend that you used, was it a standard size and you just opened up the barrel channel or did you find an over sized forend?

2) The Forend cap, how did you fit it, file and fit method?

[BenT]

Duff L bag , I used a post 64 rifle forend. If i did it again I would get a pre 64 forend. The pre 64 endcaps are smaller than the post 64 's. Thus I had to remove alot of wood, I used the belt sander clamped in the vise to get it close. The barrel channel I opened up with a file and sand paper wrapped around a file. The part the mates to the receiver I used a dremel tool . The magazine tube does a very good job of holding the forend snug . Fitting the forearm wood took the most time. Just a little at a time in the evenings.

The forend had all the bluing gone.I could spread it by hand to go on the barrel. So I heated up the rounded bottom with a propane torch and spread it and slid and on the barrel and pushed to gether to fit. It wasn't glowing hot , just a little heat. It fits the contour of the barrel great. I just cleaned up the inside alittle with a file, no filing really at all. The amout I had to spread it wasn't much ,you really can't tell that it isn't a factory fit. I got the forarm cap at a gunshow and it came with the little hanger for the cap . I'm not sure where you get that piece . Fabricating it wouldn't be hard. Now I also ordered an end cap from Numrich hopeing it would fit the barrel better. I was identical to the original cap I had . It was a very nice after market piece. I stuck with the cap I had and sent it back to Numrich in exchange for the mag tube.

Do you still have that half round half octagon 30-30 barrel or did you part with it ?

[Duff L Bagg]

Do you still have that half round half octagon 30-30 barrel or did you part with it ?

As a matter of fact I just got the rifle back from the smith today, I have the barrel sitting just a couple of feet from me as I write this. I have not looked at it yet, I was not pleased with the job the smith did on my rifle, I am going to have to re-do most of the work. After looking at the rest of the work I am surprised that the smith didn't cross thread the barrel.

Let me look at the 30-30 barrel tomorrow and I will let you know what condition the outside of it is in.

[BenT]

Duff l bag ,That's too bad about the condition of the gun. Leverguns are flat sided they are so easy to make an action wrench for. I just used bar stock and cardboard between the wrench and action. For round barrels I used a piece of cherry I had . Drilled the right barrel size hole in it. Then cut it in half with the table saw, which gave me a gap for compression of the wood.Worked great. The barrel removal create any damage at all. Some other dumb mis handling on my part did though. Let me know about if you want to part with the barrel and if you have any questions about finishing your gun . I can give you pointers on what not to do.

[Griff]

Ben,
Sorry if I came off a little strong in that prior post, I got to that and kinda forgot the previous sentence... I'm really cautious on my loads. I really like the rifle, I think it looks great, the pre-64 rifle forend cap is much more graceful than the post or commemorative style cap. You can buy the forend cap, tenon and mag tube hanger for the rifle style from either Winchester or from VTI... From VTI look up the parts for a Uberti '73 rifle, they will interchange. Also, the "Legacy" forend caps were also the styled more like the pre-64 than the commemoratives.

How do you like that non-tapered barrel? I have one in .30-30 and really love it. For off-hand shooting it's the best.

[Mike D.]

Mike D, it might be cheaper to get a smith to take an octagon 38-55 barrel and turn half of it down.[/quote]

Not really, Ben. The half oct entire front end, barrel, magazine, forend, sights, complete, is available as a unit from e-gun parts(Numrich)
for only $199. Part #715730

[Marc]

Mike, maybe the way to go is to buy the Numrich setup and the Buffalo Arms half octagon 38-55 for $150 and sell the 30-30 barrel. Numrich used to sell the barrel alone for $125. The Buffalo Arms barrel is a Badger = top quality, and it is threaded, chambered and blued. Although it is an AE barrel, it is easy enough to cut a top eject slot if you so desire:
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,3476.html

[Hobie]

32 gr. RL-7 in the .38-55 will move a 255 gr. JSP at 2000 fps in most .375" guns. Slower as the bore gets bigger (apparently). Seems to not exceed 40K PSI. I think that it should be very easy to push 200 at 2300 fps. I tried the 200s but was really bummed by their relative lack of accuracy.

[Griff]

32 gr. RL-7 in the .38-55 will move a 255 gr. JSP at 2000 fps in most .375" guns. Slower as the bore gets bigger (apparently). Seems to not exceed 40K PSI. I think that it should be very easy to push 200 at 2300 fps. I tried the 200s but was really bummed by their relative lack of accuracy.

Was that in a .375 bore? I push my 220 Hornadys at near top velocity, using 37 grs. of RE-7 (no chrono, but Hornady book shows 38 grs. for 2200fps and 36.2 for 2100. and outta my Marlin 375 and have great accuracy. Tho' newer books show less powder as the maximum. I think there's a falling off of accuracy not only with excessively oversized bores, but as speeds increase.

[awp101]

Mike, maybe the way to go is to buy the Numrich setup and the Buffalo Arms half octagon 38-55 for $150 and sell the 30-30 barrel.

Is there any demand for a .30-30 bbl in that configuration?

[BenT]

Mike D , that is an awesome price. I looked at that around Chrismas time and it was listed at $279.95 on line and in my catalog. Must be time for a new catalog.

Griff , I didn't put any negative conitation in your remarks. I 'm not a guy who has to shoot at max . It's just fun to check potential.
I have not had time to shoot it much yet. My son is big into fishing this year , so that's where my time is spent. But I did notice when carrying the balance point is now on the forearm not the receiver.

As far as reloading data from thehodgen #27 manual , which by the way is an awesome manual because it lists pressure for alot of it's data and has alot of lever calibers even the 7mmSTE.

for the 200 gr sierra

powder / grs / vel / pressure / grs / vel / pressure

H322 / 39 / 2223 / 35.3 K cup / 42 C / 2419 / 46.9 K cup

H4198 / 35 / 2288 / 36.9 k cup / 38 C / 2480 / 50.6 k cup

for the 220 gr hornady

H322 / 35 / 2029 / 35.7 K cup / 38.5 C / 2236 / 48.9 k cup

H4198 / 31 / 2067 / 33.7 k cup / 34 / 2233 / 49.3 k cup

RL 7 / 36 / 2260 / 44.5 K cup


I like the fact that it shows loads in the 35 cup range, so one has a reference of how close to 40 cup the load is. Because 38-55 load data never list anything above 28k cup.

[O.S.O.K.]

Dang. I have a 69ish 94 in 30-30 that has a rough spot in the bore - and overall is in well used condition. I was thinking of redoing it into a classic 38-55 and saw this.... man. I really don't have the funds for this right now and I'm really tempted.

Maybe I'll just file it away for a while - but those Buffalo barrels are a good deal.

For my project, I'm thinking new wood with crescent buttstock.

The fact that the receiver can be cch'd is also really attractive as that would look great!

Man.

Really nice job on that rifle btw - very nice.

What's involved with headspacing a 94? With the sight dovetails cut you pretty much have to screw it in with those at the top.... and the extractor is cut already? Surely, you don't just screw it in and viola'?

[20cows]

Numrich didn't have a 26' magazine spring so I used the 20' spring and a wooden dowel.

I just used the spring from the 20" carbine tube, no dowel, and have never had a problem. Doing so allows me to load nine rounds in the magazine.

[BenT]

20cows , I don't if I need to be loaded for bear with that many rounds in it. But then again I seen a huge boar last week . He was almost as tall as the round bale that he was walking by.

OSOK, yes it is that simple. The 94 is real easy to tell if it's headspaced. Grab one of your 94's and lever open the bolt. If you look at the chamber you will see that the barrel is screwed in flush with the receiver. I used a 6 in metal ruler to check to see if it flush. Check this before taking out the original barrel and if the new barrel parks in the same place you should have the right head space. Now I verify using tape or plasti guage. But if it flush with the receiver your probably good. Now mine protruded into the receiver by I think about .015 . I couldn't close the lever all the way with an empty case in the chamber. You might have to file the extractor groove open a little one way or the other .

If you need some shaved off you can drop it off at a smith and he can set the barrel right. I used my brothers lathe and you really need a 8 sided jig to hold the barrel. 3 jawed chuck on 8 sides doesn't work that good. All the jaws won't be on the flat sides of the barrel. That's why mine has a little ding in it.

[20cows]

Sometimes there's lotsa' things to shoot at....