Longer, heavier bullets in 50-110/50 Express?

[Naphtali]

The 50-110/50 Express uses a 2.4-inch case on a maximum cartridge length of 2.88 inches (more realistically 2.75 inches). When converting a rifle, you can specify a rate of twist compatible with longer bullets Longer, heavier cast bullets, unless they are WFNs, will have a nose length from the crimp groove exceeding .48 inch. .

How do you load longer, heavier cast bullets? Or do you acquire cast bullet molds without a crimp groove?

Apparently, the 475 Turnbull, 450 Alaskan, and 348 WCF take advantage of the M1886/M71's available cartridge length by using a shorter case to allow room for longer bullet noses.

[Bronco]

Howdy,

ON the 50-110 maximum cartridge length is 2.8", with LFN or WFN bullets it is best to go a little shorter 2.75", for feeding ease. On the molds that I ordered from Veral Smith I told him the max length that I wanted and he put the crimp groove appropriately. The heavier the bullet the less room for powder.

I have a 1 in 28" twist Montana Barrel on my 50-110 and it likes the 510 and 547 gr LFN GC casts better that the lighter bullets.

John

[Malamute]

Winchester did this exact thing, they used the same exact case, but loaded a 450 gr bullet, and called it 50-100-450(I've seen original guns so marked). If you're going to use black powder, the case capacity may be an issue, but with 100 grs of black and a 450 gr bullet, that still should be enough to crumple the largest bear or moose. If you're going to use smokeless, I doubt you are going to run out of case capacity before you run out of recoil tolerance. At 1800 fps with the Barnes Original 450 gr bullet, Snooky Williamson reported end for end penetration on both brizzly and moose, with exits, and shot thru pine trees downrange from the animals. This shouldn't even begin to use up case capacity, you may be using a filler to help the 65 or so grs of 3031 burn cleanly.

[Bronco]

Howdy,
What Malamute says it true about smokless powders. I worked up my loads using 4895 and 4064 to get 100% load density, powder position the same all the time. 4895 was a little quick for the upper loads with the 547gr and 4064 worked better for. Recoil is serious for the upper loads and I don't use them for pleasure shooting.
Was just getting load datta for for myself. It is a little scarce out there for the 50-110.

Top loads

510.....2000fps
547.....1900fps
out of a 32" barrel.. I am ready for anything inside of 200 yds.
It is not a tack driver, 4" groups at 150 yds, but it will drive in a rail road spike if I could hit it.

John

[Naphtali]

Howdy,

ON the 50-110 maximum cartridge length is 2.8", with LFN or WFN bullets it is best to go a little shorter 2.75", for feeding ease. On the molds that I ordered from Veral Smith I told him the max length that I wanted and he put the crimp groove appropriately. The heavier the bullet the less room for powder.

I have a 1 in 28" twist Montana Barrel on my 50-110 and it likes the 510 and 547 gr LFN GC casts better that the lighter bullets.

John

I should have remembered -- Veral Smith is the answer; now, what is the question?

Using smokeless powder, the next step is to locate loading data in the 35-40K CUP pressure range. I think Powley's Computer online will prove satisfactory for using selected IMR powders, but I would be more comfortable having transducer-tested data.

[KCSO]

EXPRESS
This meant short light bullets at what for the time was high velocities. That was the whole reason for express rounds. If you want longer heavier bullets you didn't want an express gun in the first place you wanted a 50-90. Time and again I have folks wanting to shoot their 1886 in 40-82 or some such and, "It just won,t shoot heavy bullets". By the time the express rounds were coming in the buffalo were going out and deer and elk were being taken at longer ranges. Hence the attempts to flatten the trajectories.

Now I'll have to admit I have never felt the need for a 50-110 as my 45-90 does everything I need it to do. it will put a 350 grain bullet throuogh a buffalo and will drop a derr as far away as I care to shoot. But if I were shooting 1000 yard targets I wouldn't piick a 50-110 to do the job with and if I wanted a 50 for huntiing I sure wouldn't need that heavy a slug to kill anyting in the lower 48 and I would just guess that a 450 grain bulllet would even leave a grizzly hors de combat.

[LeverGunner]

Howdy,
What Malamute says it true about smokless powders. I worked up my loads using 4895 and 4064 to get 100% load density, powder position the same all the time. 4895 was a little quick for the upper loads with the 547gr and 4064 worked better for. Recoil is serious for the upper loads and I don't use them for pleasure shooting.
Was just getting load datta for for myself. It is a little scarce out there for the 50-110.

Top loads

510.....2000fps
547.....1900fps
out of a 32" barrel.. I am ready for anything inside of 200 yds.
It is not a tack driver, 4" groups at 150 yds, but it will drive in a rail road spike if I could hit it.

John

Would you mind sharing your loads with me? How much of those powders and exactly which bullets you used?

I have a 50-110 on order and I am doing research on modern 50-110 data. Turnbull suggests that their 1886 will handle 44,000 psi.

[fordwannabe]

Hey John, that thread is almost 20 years old. PM me and I will send you some information I got a couple years ago from accurate powders. Your bullets are supposed to be there by Saturday.

[LeverGunner]

Thanks Tom. Yes, I know it's an old thread.

I have Accurate's data for 5744 and 2015 powders, if that's what you're referring to. I'll keep an eye out for them. Thank you kindly.

[Bronco]

PM sent!

Nobody had any data that I could find when I got mine, around 14 years ago. So I cautiously worked up loads using a powder I had, have, lots of. I am interested in any data people have. My work up was with "surplus" IMR 4895. I bought a lot because it was $7.95/lb. I forget what the retail price was but it has been something like 20 years ago!

Bronco aka John