Chrono'd some loads today ...

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Just mild stuff in 450 Alaskan. Bullet was Hornady 350gr JFP #4503. COAL was 2.6". Hotter than all get out today at the range ... almost nobody there. Didn't shoot any for accuracy ... just trying to hone in on velocity. Remington 9-1/2 primers in all. Barrel is 20 inches. Five shots each string.

Pwdr Wt. Avg. ES SD
3031 60.0 1838 82 30
3031 64.0 2029 65 26
4198 50.0 1934 139 54 (one outly'er in the bunch)
4198 52.0 1987 113 57 (again one outly'er)

Better luck with the 3031. I had a bunch loaded but the heat got to me early.

As I was finishing, I complained about my shoulder to my 14 year old son who was helping chase brass and such. Of course he retorted with a smart alec comment about it not seeming so bad to him. So naturally I chambered a single round for him and told him to go ahead and step up and show me how it's done. As I was explaining the importance of firmly shouldering the stock he ignored me and went ahead and touched it off in the middle of my sentence. He almost lost control of the gun and his eyes were as big as saucers. He's only shot 22 Magnum and 22 LR in the past. So much for "not so bad". I'm guessing he'll pay more attention to what I'm telling him while shooting next time out.

I think my chamber lead is a bit short. I have a chamber cast but I've never bothered to mic it. Time to take a look.

The 3031 at 64 grains is still not quite to the bottom of the bullet in these cases. I would be close to full at 67 grains I think without vibrating the stuff to settle it. I think it will be a while before my shoulder is ready to see 66 or 67 grains.

[RKrodle]

Good report. I'm trying to work up some loads for my new-to-me Guide Gun, but with the heat it's hard to get motivated to do it. I made up a load of using the 405gr Rem. but haven't checked velocity yet. I want to also try some 300 and 350's to see what they well do.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I checked my chamber cast and my fired cases ... lead is fine. I think my necks are a bit too tight.

I've also got the Speer 350gr JFPs to try out. They have a much longer ogive than the Hornady. Likely a better BC as well but my COAL will end up near 2.8" I think ... which is OK by me. I also have some of those 405gr Remington JFPs. Those are just too well priced to pass up. My local store wants $90 for a box of 50 of the Nosler Partition 300gr Protected Points though ... too rich for me.

RKrodle, are you loading those in 45-70 or 450 Marin perhaps?

[1886]

I think the Marlin .450 and the Marlin 1895 .45-70 will push that bullet 2100-2200fps. I wonder if you would see lower e.s. and s.d. if you pushed that bullet harder? 1886.

[Grizz]

Nice Rimfire

That thing's cruising. Are you looking for more velocity yet, or is that your goal?

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I think the Marlin .450 and the Marlin 1895 .45-70 will push that bullet 2100-2200fps. I wonder if you would see lower e.s. and s.d. if you pushed that bullet harder? 1886.

Could be. I should be able to push a 350gr out to about 2400fps from my shorter barrel.

Grizz, I think I'd like to come in around 2250fps on the 350gr. Not too hot, but not really slackin' either. I can't see going past 4000 ft-lbs really. Of course, if it ends up grouping better at 2300fps, I'm not going to complain.

I haven't done any reloading in 6 or 7 years and just recently broke out the press for this. It was slow going for me.

[RIHMFIRE]

great report...and it sure was hot!
Sure would have like to see the expression on your boys face
and see that nice model 71 again....wish i was there.....
but i went skeet shooting this morning...
blew a perfect score late in the 1st round...ended up 47 out of 50
one ya miss one.....I start screwing around and dropped 2 more

[Rimfire McNutjob]

great report...and it sure was hot!
Sure would have like to see the expression on your boys face
and see that nice model 71 again....wish i was there.....
but i went skeet shooting this morning...
blew a perfect score late in the 1st round...ended up 47 out of 50
one ya miss one.....I start screwing around and dropped 2 more

I think skeet shooting would have been a bit better than sweating over the bench with a chronograph. A couple of loads blew the front sky screens off. The chronograph was about 7 feet from the muzzle. I can't imagine what these loads would look like at dusk from that 20" barrel.

I have one loaded with 55gr of IMR-4198 with your name on it Rihmfire ... just let me know when and where.

[RKrodle]

RKrodle, are you loading those in 45-70 or 450 Marin perhaps?

45-70

[RIHMFIRE]

great report...and it sure was hot!
Sure would have like to see the expression on your boys face
and see that nice model 71 again....wish i was there.....
but i went skeet shooting this morning...
blew a perfect score late in the 1st round...ended up 47 out of 50
once ya miss one.....I start screwing around and dropped 2 more

I think skeet shooting would have been a bit better than sweating over the bench with a chronograph. A couple of loads blew the front sky screens off. The chronograph was about 7 feet from the muzzle. I can't imagine what these loads would look like at dusk from that 20" barrel.

I have one loaded with 55gr of IMR-4198 with your name on it Rihmfire ... just let me know when and where.

I better bring some extra padding to the range!
Duff-L-Bagg will be in town monday afternoon
and be around for aa week or so..
He has 1 kitchen pass to go to the range..
he has 3 new toys he wants to play with....leverguns that is!
How about we make saturday a range day.
and maybe sunday a gun show day.
I'll see what Duff has in mind when we have lunch
sometime this week.

[KirkD]

Interesting to see your chrono results. In general, for the same powder, the fuller the case, the lower the E.S. and S.D. IMR 3031 works best the fuller the case. I'm surprised to see the hi E.S. and S.D. with IMR 4198. I use toilet paper with IMR 4198 and it keeps the E.S. and S.D. down nice and low.

[Hobie]

Neat report!

405 gr. at 1800 is enough for me...

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Interesting to see your chrono results. In general, for the same powder, the fuller the case, the lower the E.S. and S.D. IMR 3031 works best the fuller the case. I'm surprised to see the hi E.S. and S.D. with IMR 4198. I use toilet paper with IMR 4198 and it keeps the E.S. and S.D. down nice and low.

I will try that ... there was a lot of space left with 52gr of IMR-4198. The 3031 certainly took up more of the space and, as you noted, gave better ES and SD.

The other problem I have is chambering the last 3/10ths of an inch. My case necks measure 0.488" at the top of the neck with a bullet seated. My fired brass and my chamber cast measure about 0.488" to 0.489" in this area. The gun has no problem chambering the round ... it's just a bit stiff. But it's tight enough to not want to extract without firing. I can't lever out the cartridge unless I fire the round. I'm not sure if this calls for a die that's tighter in the neck than what I've got OR if it requires turning the neck to take some material off. In any case, I believe my final neck should measure 0.482" to 0.484" on the outside ... not 0.488". It seems that with brass that's too think in the neck, seating a bullet is going to force it to this larger dimension until I take some off with a lathe or turning tool of sorts.

The neck length within the chamber is also quite a bit (say 3/10ths of an inch) longer than that of a loaded cartridge. This is the area that is 0.489" before the bore of 0.458" is encountered. It seems excessive to me. Once the normal bore is reached, the rifling starts about 0.150" afterward. It's almost as if the barrel was originally chambered for a 45-90 and then redone in 450 Alaskan. Of course, I could be wrong and it could be perfectly normal to extend the chamber in this manner.

Any thoughts regarding these items?

[KirkD]

I use toilet paper filler at much tamer loads. TP filler does reduce the interior space slightly, which causes a slight increase in pressure and velocity. If you do use TP filler, back off your charge slightly and chrono a load to see where you are velocity-wise.

Regarding your tight fit. I've had that problem and solved it by using a Lee FCD (factory crimp die) to do my crimping .... less chance of bulging the neck slightly at the crimp.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I've got a custom FCD on order. But I don't think I'm bulging, my whole neck is 0.488" ... not just near the crimp, though that's where I did the comparison to the chamber cast. I think I will look at the turning tools and try that route. I had better jump online and get something ordered to it can ship today.

[KirkD]

I've got a custom FCD on order. But I don't think I'm bulging, my whole neck is 0.488" ... not just near the crimp, though that's where I did the comparison to the chamber cast. I think I will look at the turning tools and try that route. I had better jump online and get something ordered to it can ship today.

Another thing I've done for tight necks is to throw the case in the chuck of my hand drill, and hold a fine file to the outside of the neck as the case turns. Take just one thou off the wall thickness and you've got a total of 2 thou clearance counting both sides.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Well, I've made some progress. I bought the Forester outside neck turning tool and shaved 0.0015" off of the necks of 10 pieces of brass. I then loaded up 64gr of 3031 and the 350gr Speer JFP (item #2478). The loaded cartridges now have necks at 0.0485" and chamber perfectly easily. Average velocity from the 20" barrel for 5 rounds is now 1992fps with an ES of 39 and an SD of 16. Really fairly pleasant to shoot. The shots were ...

1 - 1984
2 - 1981
3 - 1984
4 - 2020
5 - 1993

Number 4 looks like I may have been over 1/10 of a grain on my charge. What a fantastic reason to tell the wife I need an electronic scale now.

I may move to try 66, 66.5, and 67 grains of 3031 next. It takes a while to turn the necks though. I've got 90 more cases I need to turn. I'm not really looking forward to that. The thing is, I couldn't see how I could buy the RCBS trimmer (manual or powered) and get the outside neck turning done. It looks like their tools for that operation stop at .375 cal.

I also bought the Hornady collet style bullet puller so that I could redo some of my loaded rounds. I don't want to shoot them with the tight necks. That Hornady puller works very well and doesn't leave so much as a mark on my JFPs. I was considering the RCBS version but the comments up on Midway's site pushed me over to the Hornady. I particularly like the slight handle pull to close the collet versus twisting something down to make closure.