Skinner peep sights

[milboltnut]

Nicely built but the finish came off after a week hunting. Underneath it rusted fortunately it didn't pit my receiver to bad. Thinkin about just cold/warm blue with a torch my self and see. The owner Andy said send it back to refinish it, told him nope, I can probably do a better job bluing it, then he said he would do an trade with a brass one for mine. I said how about you just send me the brass and I'll keep mine. He won't do it. Oh well.. how's that for taking care of customers? His helper Rob sold me a Marbles fiber optic front sight that had to mill off a portion to clear a barrel band on a dovetail on the barrel on my Marlin 30 AS. The optic rod didn't have a decent "rivot" to hold in the rod on the slots. So after Robbie got all upset, Andy refunded my money for the sight and Robbie sent me two new rods. I asked him if he could ship them to my motel in the mountains that really got him over the top. So here I am letting you guys know what Skinner has working on thier sights.

[vancelw]

Would love to have heard the conversation.
Was Adolph or Jack involved?

I've bought and used Skinner merchandise for years. Years.
Great customer service. Until I experience anything different myself I'll consider this post nothing but sour grapes.

BTW, Andy sponsors your free speech pedestal. Is that gratitude?

[milboltnut]

Would love to have heard the conversation.
Was Adolph or Jack involved?

I've bought and used Skinner merchandise for years. Years.
Great customer service. Until I experience anything different myself I'll consider this post nothing but sour grapes.

BTW, Andy sponsors your free speech pedestal. Is that gratitude?

Well l reckon this oughta be your first batch of sour grapes then! but at least Andy resolved it, got a full refund on both sights. My thing is don’t get carried away with smearing it on the icing too thick and then have someone like me cut a slice of the mud pie!

Andy didn’t cut me off and l told what l won’t buy from him from now on! Nothing with the whatever finish coating is out ! Would like the easiest way to remove the finish in order to blue it. Any suggestions?

[ANDYLARSSON]

Figured I'd weigh in here...

We tried to help Ralph and went out of our way to make things work for him. We have received 27 customer initiated email threads since the first of the year and did our dead level best to resolve all issues.

Rob (not Robbie) made some phone calls, tried to answer questions, offered help in various ways. We did mill a cut in a front sight to clear the barrel band for one of his rifles. We did not charge him for the extra work.

Problems started when the fiber optic rod came loose in his front sight. We have this sight made for us by Marbles and occasionally, like all fiber optics, a rod comes loose. The solution is replacement rods which we sent to Ralph's home address. He did request that we send them to a motel somewhere he was headed but in our experience, if they were delayed in the mail and arrived after the customer had left, then they get sent back to us to be resent again. (A customer service debacle) Rob (not Robbie) did let Ralph know that sending to the Motel was not a good plan and we sent them to his home.

The sight in question is finished in a black hot oxide finish. After hunting for a week in the snow (according to Ralph who says he wiped it down well) the sight developed some surface rust. We cover that under our lifetime warranty. We requested the sight be returned to us for refinishing.

My response: "If you send it back to us we would be glad to refinish it.

We do make them in all brass if you would like to trade up.

406-745-4570
Skinnersights.com
“Saving the World, One Gunsight at a Time”

Ralph replied: "Do the right thing and just send me the brass one with no trade, how’s that?"

I responded: "I’ve always done the right thing…. Sometimes there are sometimes issues that seem to just keep going.

Sure, I’ll exchange it for a brass one. Please return the one you have now and we will exchange it under warranty.

That’s fair.

Please return it to:

Skinner Sights
P.O. Box 1810
St Ignatius, MT. 59865

Include a note so we remember what is needed.

Thank you,

Andy

406-745-4570
Skinnersights.com
“Saving the World, One Gunsight at a Time”

Ralph: "I ain’t returning nothing you ignorant bastard. What the hell more do you need than to see that your coating sucks?! I can always post my pictures of gunforums and see how that goes or you can just send me the brass one and forget about your bullshit refinishing or trade!"

Then Ralph called and left a similar message on our phone.

We responded:

"Hello Ralph,

Thank you for your phone message. As I shared last night, I've always done the right thing by my customers. Maybe not what they expected exactly but I've always been fair.

In any warranty situation, the part in question is returned, evaluated, and remedied to make it right. That's basic across all manufactures.

We also offered to exchange it for a brass model.

Bottom line, sometimes a situation is not resolved. In our business, that is almost never.

What I can say is please accept my apologies that we didn't meet your expectations.

I have issued a full refund for both the rear sight and the front sight purchased from us over the past year. This seems to be the best "right thing" I can do at this point.

No need to return anything.

We wish you well.

Andy"

My apologies folks that this has come to our community. My apologies to Ralph that we couldn't meet his expectations. Most of you know we do our very best to take care of our customers but occasionally we can't and a full refund was the best way I knew to bring this to a close.

For the record... The best way to get amazing customer service from any company is to work with them. They are not your enemy and want you to be successful. We operate under the "Golden Rule" in business, same as we do in this forum. "Treat others the way you would want to be treated" We appreciate when our customers do the same.

Thank you all for the great community you have built here. I'm honored to be a part of it.

Andy

[JimT]

Thanks Andy!

[AJMD429]

.
I don't know if you tried it, but I just use a lighter to heat/melt the ends of the fiber piece, and if done carefully the sight will seal-in and not move or fall out. I often change the color of my fiber sights.

I keep some of these on hand - https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1852479451?pid=198621

[ANDYLARSSON]

.
I don't know if you tried it, but I just use a lighter to heat/melt the ends of the fiber piece, and if done carefully the sight will seal-in and not move or fall out. I often change the color of my fiber sights.

I keep some of these on hand - https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1852479451?pid=198621

Thanks! We did send Ralph a set of replacements and went over the process of heating the ends to form the head's to keep them in place.

Works great!

Thanks for the link though. Might help some of our other members.

Andy

[milboltnut]

Well IF Rob looked at the sight he would have seen the "rivot" on the fiber rod was on one of the ends. Why send it out like that ?

I worked with other companies that didn't require a "trade" or sending it back.... you inconveninced me just before a hunt and Rob wouldn't mail me the rods to where I was staying and hung up on me. He was just annoyed that I had a problems with YOUR products???? Go figure. Why should I be inconvenienced any further, and pay postage to send back something that wasn't done right the first time. Poor machining, chatter marks that most likely allowed moisture to work under the sight and rust ?? IF it was finished right the first time, like say a factory sight or rifle which BTW I never has that much rust build up that fast. Yeah a wipe down is done every night but it was missed under the sight.

[Bill in Oregon]

Mr. milboltnut with your 11 posts in four years, what have you done for this forum? I suggest an anger management class before a judge forces you to take one.

[milboltnut]

.
I don't know if you tried it, but I just use a lighter to heat/melt the ends of the fiber piece, and if done carefully the sight will seal-in and not move or fall out. I often change the color of my fiber sights.

I keep some of these on hand - https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1852479451?pid=198621

Thanks! We did send Ralph a set of replacements and went over the process of heating the ends to form the head's to keep them in place.

Works great!

Thanks for the link though. Might help some of our other members.

Andy

I find a light dab of crazy glue with a tooth pick works best rather than heating ends, to me it weakens the plastic.

[milboltnut]

Andy

So I just went on the site to see they added the Remington logo to the main page but not under the peep sights.

When you say brass model you mentioned in your email, assuming the whole thing was brass, only the windage dovetail is brass. I see no real reason for the dovetail to be brass and not the rest other than the weather effecting it from being moved in the future. At this point removing my sight and keeping an eye on corrosion is the only option for now.

[fordwannabe]

In my opinion (and I AM allowed to have an opinion), the skinner sight has been great. I have three and love them all. I have two blued and one brass all good to go and happy with them.

[milboltnut]

In my opinion (and I AM allowed to have an opinion), the skinner sight has been great. I have three and love them all. I have two blued and one brass all good to go and happy with them.

Not saying that they are all bad, but just giving my experience.

[4t5]

So reading the story , Andy would replace the sight ,
You’re choosing to keep it because … it ain’t that bad.
End of story.
I’m not choosing sides , just reading .

[TedH]

It sounds like the company went above and beyond to satisfy the customer. Yet the customer expected more, unreasonably, IMO, and still felt the need to try and drag the company through the mud because their tantrum didn't have the desired ending.

[milboltnut]

It sounds like the company went above and beyond to satisfy the customer. Yet the customer expected more, unreasonably, IMO, and still felt the need to try and drag the company through the mud because their tantrum didn't have the desired ending.

People still need to know what's going on, and I wouldn't call it a tantrum, I call it satisfaction. I got a refund for both parts, which I'm happy with (and didn't expect more, IMO). Just cold blued with a torch for a better cold blue on Andys' peep sight. Looks great and sure it will hold up fine. In the event I need another peep sight from Andy, first thing is to reblue it. His design is really a great one !

[zephaniah]

If I was Andy, I'd throw your next order in the trash but it sounds like he's a better man than that. Just saying.

zeph

[milboltnut]

If I was Andy, I'd throw your next order in the trash but it sounds like he's a better man than that. Just saying.

zeph

You’re absolutely right he is the better man. Maybe he could make his sight base out of aluminum, been working that way for decades with scope bases, why not his base ?

It gets old after awhile dealing with substandard stuff IMO. So when you have to deal with something like this where an extra yard would be the fix. I really think the finish could have been done better but that’s just me.

[AJMD429]

.
As a small business owner whose customers most all are either sick or in pain, so tend to be frightened or upset to begin with, it is very difficult to rectify any 'bad outcome' to the satisfaction of the customer, but I find that if I "do the right thing", it nearly always satisfies as best as can be done.

Defining "the right thing" isn't always mutual, though, and I deal in services not products, but were I selling a product, I would replace it if defective, but I would not just send out a second product.

Now a few businesses I've dealt with DO send out the 'replacement' - FOR THE NORMAL CHARGE - then upon later receipt of the original 'defective' product, issue a refund. That is usually only done if time is of the essence, or if the product worked 'well enough for now' and interruption of use would pose a problem.

[milboltnut]

.
As a small business owner whose customers most all are either sick or in pain, so tend to be frightened or upset to begin with, it is very difficult to rectify any 'bad outcome' to the satisfaction of the customer, but I find that if I "do the right thing", it nearly always satisfies as best as can be done.

Defining "the right thing" isn't always mutual, though, and I deal in services not products, but were I selling a product, I would replace it if defective, but I would not just send out a second product.

Now a few businesses I've dealt with DO send out the 'replacement' - FOR THE NORMAL CHARGE - then upon later receipt of the original 'defective' product, issue a refund. That is usually only done if time is of the essence, or if the product worked 'well enough for now' and interruption of use would pose a problem.

Well maybe you should read his Refund policy....

At anytime, we will repair, refinish, or replace, (at our discretion) your Skinner Sight.
(To me pictures are sufficient rather than shipping back. And would say for Andy too.)

At Skinner Sights we practice the Golden Rule: "Treat our Customers the way WE would want to be treated"

My question is why do you think Andy went above his policy? Me personally ? I can understand dragging a rifle with his sight through the brush or dropped it off a cliff, etc... but I only had the sight for a very short period of time (less than a year), haven't taken it to the feild, except last week and haven't dragged it through the brush, or dropped it off a cliff but just hunted with it in light snow fall. While hunting I noticed some light rust in the sight base and wiped it down with the rest of the rifle. When I got home from the hunt, I took the sight of the rifle to see alot of rust on the underside of the base.

As I cleaned off the rust I also noticed swirl marks from the milling machine which I explained, to me, would allowed moisture between the steel base and steel receiver.


After the clean up I lightly sanded away the swirl marks with 150 grit sandpaper, then cold blued, with heat and warm to the touch. This blue job does a really good job verses just plain cold blue. Prepping the base with scrubbing with degreaser, which I use dawn and a tooth brush.

Sorry for the rant but I feel it deserves a explanation rather than a being labeled as someone who is trying to take advantage of someone.

[milboltnut]

Figured I'd weigh in here...

We tried to help Ralph and went out of our way to make things work for him. We have received 27 customer initiated email threads since the first of the year and did our dead level best to resolve all issues.

Rob (not Robbie) made some phone calls, tried to answer questions, offered help in various ways. We did mill a cut in a front sight to clear the barrel band for one of his rifles. We did not charge him for the extra work.

Problems started when the fiber optic rod came loose in his front sight. We have this sight made for us by Marbles and occasionally, like all fiber optics, a rod comes loose. The solution is replacement rods which we sent to Ralph's home address. He did request that we send them to a motel somewhere he was headed but in our experience, if they were delayed in the mail and arrived after the customer had left, then they get sent back to us to be resent again. (A customer service debacle) Rob (not Robbie) did let Ralph know that sending to the Motel was not a good plan and we sent them to his home.

The sight in question is finished in a black hot oxide finish. After hunting for a week in the snow (according to Ralph who says he wiped it down well) the sight developed some surface rust. We cover that under our lifetime warranty. We requested the sight be returned to us for refinishing.

My response: "If you send it back to us we would be glad to refinish it.

We do make them in all brass if you would like to trade up.

406-745-4570
Skinnersights.com
“Saving the World, One Gunsight at a Time”

Ralph replied: "Do the right thing and just send me the brass one with no trade, how’s that?"

I responded: "I’ve always done the right thing…. Sometimes there are sometimes issues that seem to just keep going.

Sure, I’ll exchange it for a brass one. Please return the one you have now and we will exchange it under warranty.

That’s fair.

Please return it to:

Skinner Sights
P.O. Box 1810
St Ignatius, MT. 59865

Include a note so we remember what is needed.

Thank you,

Andy

406-745-4570
Skinnersights.com
“Saving the World, One Gunsight at a Time”

Ralph: "I ain’t returning nothing you ignorant bastard. What the hell more do you need than to see that your coating sucks?! I can always post my pictures of gunforums and see how that goes or you can just send me the brass one and forget about your bullshit refinishing or trade!"

Then Ralph called and left a similar message on our phone.

We responded:

"Hello Ralph,

Thank you for your phone message. As I shared last night, I've always done the right thing by my customers. Maybe not what they expected exactly but I've always been fair.

In any warranty situation, the part in question is returned, evaluated, and remedied to make it right. That's basic across all manufactures.

We also offered to exchange it for a brass model.

Bottom line, sometimes a situation is not resolved. In our business, that is almost never.

What I can say is please accept my apologies that we didn't meet your expectations.

I have issued a full refund for both the rear sight and the front sight purchased from us over the past year. This seems to be the best "right thing" I can do at this point.

No need to return anything.

We wish you well.

Andy"

My apologies folks that this has come to our community. My apologies to Ralph that we couldn't meet his expectations. Most of you know we do our very best to take care of our customers but occasionally we can't and a full refund was the best way I knew to bring this to a close.

For the record... The best way to get amazing customer service from any company is to work with them. They are not your enemy and want you to be successful. We operate under the "Golden Rule" in business, same as we do in this forum. "Treat others the way you would want to be treated" We appreciate when our customers do the same.

Thank you all for the great community you have built here. I'm honored to be a part of it.

Andy

I missed this... so I do believe it needs a rebuttal.

The sight in question is finished in a black hot oxide finish. After hunting for a week in the snow (according to Ralph who says he wiped it down well) the sight developed some surface rust.

I already left another reply to a the last poster here and don't think I need to say it again. But it amazes me how the blame is partly shifted on me. Hmmmm. ok, wow. Andy didn't mention about the rust underneath the sight base. Just sayin'.

[Ray]

A gun was taken out in a snowstorm and developed rust and everybody but the one who is responsible for oiling it is to blame ?

Product warranties would insolve every firearms and associated aftermarket manufactory if they were responsible for ferrous parts that rust.

[milboltnut]

A gun was taken out in a snowstorm and developed rust and everybody but the one who is responsible for oiling it is to blame ?

Product warranties would insolve every firearms and associated aftermarket manufactory if they were responsible for ferrous parts that rust.

first part understandable, but isn't something I didn't do. Sorry Pal.

Guess you don't agree with poor job of antirust coating they put on, understandable. I was out in the pouring rain with a crude military Mauser M48 that didn't rust like this part, if not hardly at all. And my maintenance wasn't any worse then, than it is now.

Tell me if you think this is a problem ? The swirl machine marks, allowing moisture under the base.

https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail- ... =s0-l75-ft

[AmBraCol]

Having known for many years one of the persons involved in this incident and observing the manner in which this thread has developed, there's no doubt in my mind the person with whom I'd rather do business. And it's not someone who shows up from nowhere to attack the reputation of someone well known in the industry.

Don't feed the trolls is a good motto, but difficult to stick to when unwarranted attacks by persons with no track record of veracity are made.

[milboltnut]

Having known for many years one of the persons involved in this incident and observing the manner in which this thread has developed, there's no doubt in my mind the person with whom I'd rather do business. And it's not someone who shows up from nowhere to attack the reputation of someone well known in the industry.

Don't feed the trolls is a good motto, but difficult to stick to when unwarranted attacks by persons with no track record of veracity are made.

I'm was not under no obligation to send back the sight, and they were under no obligation to refund my money. If they didn't, I would never do business with them again, But.. I appreciated they did and mostly likely will do business with them again.

And as far as I'm concerned you are one of a few trolls here.

If years went by I can accept the fact it needed to be refinished, but after a few months, and one time in the feild with precip ??


First experience with a steel sight in foul weather

[Pisgah]

Well, IMO ol' Ralph either had a bad day, or he's a 100% a**hole. Skinner Sights went above and beyond to satisfy him, but clearly nothing was going to do that from Day One...

He should apologize, but short of that he should just get lost.