.222 Remington/.223 Remington for deer

[Scott Tschirhart]

This may be controversial but I’m a big boy and I don’t mind if you disagree.

To start with, I’ve killed a large pickup truck bed full of deer with the .223 over the last four decades.

Is it an ideal deer cartridge? No. You need the right ammo and you need to be able to calmly place your shots and understand where to shoot a deer. But it’s no slouch either.

When I was a kid we would bring our favorite deer cartridges (snitched from our fathers) to school and compare them. As I recall, the .30-06 and.300 Savage were very popular. But we saw all kinds of cartridges. Surprisingly few used a .30-30.

Among the older men in our community the Savage 340 chambered in .222 Remington with a 4x scope was very common. 50 grain soft points killed a lot of deer.

A lot of those old men have died off and so has the .300 Savage. I miss all of them.

Now a .223 will do as good or better than a .222 and will do it with a 60 grain soft point of more robust design than the 1960s and 1970s 50 gr Remington soft point.

I don’t think deer have gotten any tougher and ammo is better. I can hit a golf ball at 140 yards with my .223. So I’m sort of confused when I read that a .223 is insufficient for deer.

It sure is sudden death on what I’ve been shooting.

[rock-steady]

My thoughts are that a 222 or 223 may be adequate for shooting deer that are posing in the open and unaware of the shooter's presence, but does not leave much room for error.

In my experience, hunting in the thick woods with deer moving or running, the 222/223 will let you down when you need it most.

In bye gone days, I hunted and killed many whitetails and wild hogs with a Ruger M77 in 22 Hornet.

My favorite bullet was the Sierra 52gr BTHP with high neck shots.

Tangling with a 350lb boar in a downed treetop in a briar thicket made me re-think my choice of calibers.....

[Ray]

There is or was a member here byron or bryan......if I remember, he was referred to as doctor leclerc and is/was a dentist or chiropractor. He wrote occasionally of using the .223/5.56 on deer on his farm. I copied some his comments from circa 2012.

"Standard round around the farm is the Hornady 55 gr soft point loaded to near m193 spec. One issue to be aware of is that at this level you will see blown primers from time to time especially if the brass is getting tired. This bullet will kill deer about as good as anything when shot in the chest or neck. If I was limited to one load this would be it."

"High performance load is a m262 Mod 1 spec load of this 75 gr OPBT bullet. It kills deer like lightning. Wound tracts are very little different from those left by 150 gr .308 soft points. This is a real killer bullet when shot at high velocity."

I seem to remember him referring to both kansas and north dakota so I imagined these deer he was hunting were large bodied and inured to the hardships of winters.

[JimT]

If it is no good for deer I would not want to use it for self-defense. Humans are generally tougher than deer.

[Ray]

A long time ago but my memories were of it having the narrow shoulders and long neck of a younger buck.....

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Those win. 64gr. power points are still available but are pricey compared to common 55gr. bullets. I am curious as to those of solid copper like the barnes x perform on deer.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I’m working with the Hornady 60 gr Interlock bullet.

I’m hoping for broadside pass through if placed just behind the shoulder. Let’s see what happens.

[Walt]

A 60 or so grain bullet is likely the heaviest that can be shot in a rifle with standard twist. Shooting 70 or more grain projectiles requires a shorter twist to properly stabilize them.

[Scott Tschirhart]

A 60 or so grain bullet is likely the heaviest that can be shot in a rifle with standard twist. Shooting 70 or more grain projectiles requires a shorter twist to properly stabilize them.

What is a “standard twist” for a .223 anymore?

I believe my rifle has a 1/9 inch twist. No stabilization issues.

[Old No7]

I have a superbly accurate Triple Deuce; if I'd ever used it for deer (hunting from my fixed stand) I'd probably try a Nosler Partition bullet. Haven't done it yet -- 'cause I like my leveraction! (Savage 99A in .250 Savage)

Old No7

[Ray]

I’m working with the Hornady 60 gr Interlock bullet.

I’m hoping for broadside pass through if placed just behind the shoulder. Let’s see what happens.

The first video in this y.t. video playlist features factory ammo with the same or similar hornady bullet.....even the launching platform may be familiar to you.....

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD ... Wxe7anNjCf

I have watched several of these and they are interesting.....

[Scott Tschirhart]

I believe that Lee Mason is a Texas boy. His shop is in Celina, Texas.

These videos are interesting but only to compare one load to another. They do not duplicate shots on an animal.

But these are very good for comparing one load to another.

[Bill in Oregon]

I got religion on the .223 for deer after reading the posts in this thread and some of the links.

https://www.ifish.net/threads/the-223-f ... e.1714874/

[Walt]

I don't know what the SAAMI spec for .223 barrel twist is these days but my 1980 Hornady loading manual shows their test rifle's twist was 1 in 12". Same with their test rifle in the 2021 manual. However, Lyman's 51st edition from 2022 shows their rifle used a 1 in 7" twist. As shooters are moving to heavier bullets with higher ballistic coefficients the twist in more modern rifles has become significantly shorter (faster).

The twist rate used in military M4 rifles is currently 1 in 7".

[jnyork]

I'm sorry to hear that the .223 has replaced the .222 , sad to find out the .222 is no longer any good for anything. You fellows that have .222's still wasting space in your gun safes can just send them on out to me and I wlll take care of the funeral arrangements, no charge to you of course except for the shipping.

[Walt]

I still have a Remington model 722 in .222 mag which is a splendid combination. It works for me.

[samsi]

The Speer 62 grain Gold Dot behaves very much like the 60 grain Partition in gelatin, and based on one each hog and deer shot by a friend of mine. I've got a 77 Hawkeye in .223 that I picked up with the intent of using it for deer but so far I've left it home in favor of .30 bore things.

Speaking of the .222, I had a good 700 ADL so chambered - another I shouldn't have let go.

[Scott Tschirhart]

A .222 Remington cartridge looks a lot like a miniature.30-06. Just saying.

I’ve never owned one but the ones I shot were very accurate.

[Walt]

I have read that the military had at one time planned to use the .222 mag for its NATO cartridge but it was found that the shorter neck of the .223/5.56 worked better in full-auto fire. Performance was nearly identical.