Reloading 41 Magnum

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rjletraveler
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Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by rjletraveler »

Hello all,
I am looking for some reloading help in regards to my Henry 41 magnum. I have reloaded some 210 grain moly coated lswc cast bullets and have had an issue getting them to group at 25yards. I did three separate loads using hp38 powder at 6.6, 6.9 and 7.4 grains. 5 rounds of each and my groups all over the place. I am new to reloading for the 41 but I believe my seating depth was fine as well as my crimp. I have not tried another powder yet. That will be my next attempt I believe. Has anyone had success with the hp38 in the 41? Of note. I have shot other reloads through it that were part of what I inherited when my dad passed and I got his ruger blackhawk. They shot great. Dead on over and over at 25 yards. Unfortunately I do not know the powder used. He was exceptionally lax in keeping detailed records. Any help would be appreciated.
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by GunnyMack »

Welcome!
I too have a Henry 41. I haven't put cast through it yet. I learned to not push Berry's plated too fast! :lol:
I settled on Nosler 210s over Lilgun for 1800+/- and touching holes off sandbags at 50. I was looking for a flatter shooting load. I also tried Speer and XTPs- Hornady does not recommend the XTP at that velocity!
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by rjletraveler »

Thanks for the info. I have to admit I haven't seen the lyman cast manual. I will look it up and see what info I can find. I have only ran a few jacketed bullets through the Henry so far. The reloaded swc's I have of my dad's are shooting amazingly flat. Kind of why I looked into the lswc's for reloading more. Wondering if maybe I seated them too deep... I am not sure if I will be able to find lilgun. I keep an eye on our local online classifieds and have seen plenty of H110 and I have V110 so was going to try those first. Not a huge fan of the ruger blackhawk as it is awfully heavy and bulky for hiking and such so I don't use very often. The Henry however is a hoot to shoot and I am putting a lot through it already. Probably up to 100 rounds and I have only had it a couple months. Thanks for the info.
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by JimT »

I have not shot the Henry, but in my sixgun and in the Marlin 1894 levergun H-110 and 2400 gave me the best results.
marlin_model_1894s.htm_txt_41.gif
Velocities from the Marlin 1894
215 gr. RCBS SWC / 16.0 gr. 2400 .........1553 fps
250 gr. Cast Performance WFN (PB) / 19 gr. WC820 .........1613 fps
255 gr. Cast Performance WFN (GC) / 19 gr. WC820 .........1617 fps
(WC820 is military surplus H110)
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by Blaine »

I had really good luck with Blue Dot....It sits next to 2400 on the burn rate chart.
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by JimT »

Blaine wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:48 am I had really good luck with Blue Dot....It sits next to 2400 on the burn rate chart.
Yes. I use Blue Dot in several different calibers.
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by M. M. Wright »

I haven't loaded 41 Mag in years but when I did H-110 was my favorite powder. I had Black Hawks, 58s, 57s and a 94 Marlin. They all liked it.
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by GunnyMack »

Supposedly the 'new' blue dot isn't kosher in the 41 mag... truth to that I can't prove.
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by rjletraveler »

Thanks for the info so far all. Curious for those of you loading cast bullets, if any of you have loaded with VV N110? If I use H110 I am going to have to go on a trade mission. I do however have 3lbs of N110 but can not find any load data using it with cast bullets. I have a 215gr poly coated swc that I would like to try out but am having trouble finding load data. I have seen a post listing N110 being similar to 4227 but I haven't looked into that yet. Thanks.
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by piller »

VV N110 is a stick powder. Different burn rates than the H110 ball powder. I have used it with my .44 Mag and 240 grain JHP, but not yet with cast.
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by Blaine »

GunnyMack wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:48 pm Supposedly the 'new' blue dot isn't kosher in the 41 mag... truth to that I can't prove.
I knew about Blue Dot and .357 with 125gr +P loads being a problem.....Maybe I was lucky :lol:
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by Sixgun »

If your groups are "all over the place" at 25 yards with a rifle, you don't have a powder problem, you have a bullet problem. Most likely undersized.---006
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by AJMD429 »

.

1. What Sixgun said; bullet too small or bore too large...?

2. If you still want to figure out the powder, you may be able to tell the powder your dad used if you pull a couple loads apart and look closely at the powder under magnification, and weigh the charge he was using. The appearance should narrow it to the right type (ball, flake, stick) powder, and the weight may help you figure out which it is likeliest to be. Chronographing could help narrow it down if in conjunction with the other info.
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by rjletraveler »

I will look at both these suggestions. I should probably check for leading too. My dads lswc probably aren't gas checks or poly coated. He was highly likely to have loaded hot rounds too. I don't have a chrono to check but pulling a bullet and looking at the powder and its weight may give me a good idea. More great info. Thanks.
Still looking for anyone that has used N110 and cast bullets to give me some starting load ideas. My best guess as a place to start with what I have found so far is 17.5gr under 215gr lswc. Any thoughts would be welcome.
Will post my findings after pulling a bullet from one of my dad's reloads and checking my bore and bullet diameters.
thanks
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by Grizz »

whether lead bullets lead the bore is a complicated matter. i shot hundreds of plain base hard cast 325Gr bullets from a 10" SBH without ever scrubbing the bore. I ran oiled patches through it, but the grooves have still not filled up with lead. this was a moderate velocity load, although I never measured it.

my understanding of this is that the bullet wipes lead as well as deposits it. it seems to be this way.

my guide gun is fed 525Gr hard cast gas checked bullets with the same ill treatment of the bore, and the lands are not filling up.

my 22 rifles get treated the same way, and they still have lands and grooves.

what I think is that leading can and does happen, but it doesn't have to, and I've never stressed about it, and I've never had to deal with it. if one of my firearms suddenly starts spraying bullets I'll check the muzzle crown first, and then run a brass brush through to see what comes of it.

i realize this sounds stupid to people who achieve a quarter-bullet-diameter spread, but as long as i can hit a seashell on the beach, i can make meat.
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by JimT »

Grizz wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:52 am my understanding of this is that the bullet wipes lead as well as deposits it. it seems to be this way.
It certainly can. I have taken barrels that had a patch of lead in them and using an over-size soft lead bullet, slowly shoved it through the bore with the help of a mallet ... and the lead was "picked up" by the bullet I pushed through the barrel. Often as the bullet I was pushing began to exit the barrel "shavings" of lead fell out ahead of the bullet.
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by Sixgun »

JimT wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:34 am
It certainly can. I have taken barrels that had a patch of lead in them and using an over-size soft lead bullet, slowly shoved it through the bore with the help of a mallet ... and the lead was "picked up" by the bullet I pushed through the barrel. Often as the bullet I was pushing began to exit the barrel "shavings" of lead fell out ahead of the bullet.
I tell ya Master Jim........I learn something new everyday.....that (what you wrote) is also a complicated matter and I've just assumed gas check bullets, jacketed bullets or even proper sized hard cast semi wadcutters did the scraping.

Off the subject but I do remember some guy in the fifties who had a zinc scraper bullet....a little do dad similar to a gas check.

That does make sense...a soft oversized ball slowly pushed down the bore would push out or even amalgamate if the lead was soft enough
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by rjletraveler »

So, took a good look down the barrel and it definitely has some build up. Gave it a thorough cleaning but I can still see a good bit of build up in the rifling. Looked up and watched a couple video's on cleaning lead out of the bore. Anyone use copper wool? Also pulled a bullet from one of my dad's reloads and it is a 210gr lswc. No gas check and not poly coated that I can tell. 7.4gr of powder. Best I can determine it is unique. Would leading cause the spray I am seeing? Seems likely. Thanks for all the help all. Loving this rifle! (second time I posted as the previous one didn't show up. Is this a problem occasionally?)
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by JimT »

Sixgun wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:03 am I've just assumed gas check bullets, jacketed bullets or even proper sized hard cast semi wadcutters did the scraping.
Off the subject but I do remember some guy in the fifties who had a zinc scraper bullet....a little do dad similar to a gas check.
I am not sure of this, but what I've seen is jacketed bullets fired at standard velocity sorta "squish" the lead onto the barrel. Shoot enough jacketed at you "plate" copper over the lead. Now I am sure at times they do "clean" the bore. But when I was using the Outers Foul Out II on the Model 94 Winchester, I pulled copper off the barrel. Then lead. Then copper. Then more lead. Some fine pits in the bore were filled with lead. Now they were not deep, but they had lead in them and copper over top.

I cannot say it happens like that all the time.

The bullet with the zinc washer on the base was the HARVEY PRO-TEX BORE bullet. It is listed in some of the old Lyman Reloading Manuals. My Dad had some of them. The bullets were cast pretty soft, with a zinc washer (scraper) on the base. The bullets were light for the bore but intended for handgun application ... driven very fast with a lot of expansion in the target material.
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by piller »

Just asking. Are there cleaning products which are better for removing lead fouling than Hoppes #9? Ed's red? Other products?

I have used some copper fouling remover on a Remington 700 in .270 caliber. It came out blue for a few days before it cleared up. I used some bore lapping product to smooth up the bore, and it started staying much cleaner.

Does bore lapping help with preventing lead fouling, or is that a MAYBE?
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by Sixgun »

Ok Jim....yes, I believe there's a mix between the two.....as in "jacketed bullets getting the lead out". Common sense says a hot powder load with a jacketed bullet would help melt it out but I'm no metallurgist. What I do know is plating of any kind can be seen under a strong light after a good cleaning and degreasing of solvent.

Those Outers foul outs...mmmmm...I have one and used it somewhat extensively but you don't see them anymore.....with today's solvents and anvanced cleaning knowledge of everyday shooters I just don't think they are needed.

I do know I destroyed a very rare Marlin 219 Zipper barrel with one sometime 20 years ago......it ate up the last half inch of the micro groove rifling and had to have it cut.....I was so disgusted I sold the rifle for a few hundred dollars buts that's Ok, I have a like new one in reserve. :D ----006
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by Sixgun »

Piller....yes....the solvent out today are the S. But.....people also overdo it so unless your a long range benchrest shooter there's no need to "copper remove" everytime you shoot the gun. Even my benchrest AR's only get copper cleaned once every couple of hundred rounds.

I like "Sweets" buts there's many ammonia based solvents that do the same.....also keep in mind that when using these products a brass brush, rod, jig, or patch holder will give your "blue patch test" a false reading.
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

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Sixgun wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:44 pm
Those Outers foul outs...mmmmm...I have one and used it somewhat extensively but you don't see them anymore.....with today's solvents and anvanced cleaning knowledge of everyday shooters I just don't think they are needed.

I do know I destroyed a very rare Marlin 219 Zipper barrel with one sometime 20 years ago......it ate up the last half inch of the micro groove rifling and had to have it cut.....I was so disgusted I sold the rifle for a few hundred dollars buts that's Ok, I have a like new one in reserve. :D ----006
Yep. You have to pay close attention with those electro thingies or they will start removing the barrel itself.
After playing with it years ago I packed the Outers kit away and have not used it. I don't usually clean a barrel unless accuracy falls off. My old Model 94 Trapper has never been cleaned other than some Hoppes and a brass brush.
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by Sixgun »

You got it Master Jim! Only we old heads know more barrels have been ruined by over cleaning than undercleaning. I've seen guys religiously clean their .22 rimfire barrels and scrub the bore....bad, you know that....im just writing this for the younger guys who are still learning

It all comes from the blackpowder days with mercuric priming which attracts moisture when you couldn't go a few days ...or a day....without cleaning.

Let's pretend you have a Ruger single action ......or a Colt single action....(purposely omitting foreign guns of lesser quality because I don't own any) Using "clean" ammo, pertaining to powder/leading residue you can go thousands of rounds with only a wipe down. I don't......guns of tighter tolerances such as a quality Smith or Colt double action need the crane/face of the cylinder/under the ejector cleaned more often than a single action.

Have a old model Ruger single six that I keep out in the barn....hanging on a nail.....if I go out back to work....take a walk or cut the pasture I just stuff it in my belt. Let's see.....mmmmm.......had the house built in '74 and bought the Ruger about the same time....unknown thousands of rounds......cleaned maybe 2 or 3 times......-

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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by piller »

On that .270, it never saw a brass or bronze brush or jag. Once I lapped it, then glass bedded it due to the rain catching me out in the woods, it has never needed more than a couple of passes with a wet then dry patch. Probably 500 rounds total out of it. It is more accurate than I could have asked for. Some rifles are just happy to make tiny groups.
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

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Just to be smart, I tried to make my mini-30 either fail or show a change in accuracy by never cleaning it. I gave up and cleaned it at 3,000 rounds because it was too dirty to pick up. Accuracy was the same BLAAH accuracy as ever. Not a single failure. 100 yards 4 to 5 inch groups no matter what.
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Re: Reloading 41 Magnum

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I don't shoot a lot of copper jacketed bullets these days. When I do it is to shoot them hot to polish out the bore of a new revolver.

Hoppes #9 is pretty much the only solvent I use and it still does the same good job it always did. Just keep it away from nickle plated guns. More and more I put some Hoppes on a wet patch in the barrel and then a clean patch or two....if I still see something in there, I use one of those pull through bore cleaners and it seems to get whatever is left out.

Back to the original post. I'm betting that your bullets are somewhat undersized for the bore and you are not creating enough pressure behind them to bump the bullet up to fill the bore. But that is just my theory. I don't know Henry rifles, but Marlins seem to do better with a little larger diameter bullet.
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