New 1000yd record group

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Ray Newman
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New 1000yd record group

Post by Ray Newman »

Shooter, aged 83, shot a 2.6" 10 shot group at 1000yds!

Unfrigginbelievable.

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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by piller »

He still has some amazing skill.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by stretch »

What Ray said........

:shock: 8) :lol:

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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by Oldncrusty »

:shock: Holy Moly. Been wondering if that cartridge had been seeing any use in BR.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by 44shooter »

Wow! Amazing shooting!
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by 3leggedturtle »

I could hear him saying " no big deal, just like shooting a .26" group at 100 yards" :mrgreen: Never hear much about the 300 WSM, seems like a nicely balanced cartridge.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by Sixgun »

Not trying to take away from this guy as it was a huge success in everything he put together and it's obvious this guy is one of the best in the game but.......there was a huge amount of luck involved in his group......

ALL bullets are pushed by the slightest wind at that range no matter what the ballistic coefficient is. Long range shooters look at the wind flags, shoot, watch their hit and adjust their aim according to the wind and this guy could not do that as he could not see his previous hits. So he dumped them all asap to escape wind changes.....and he got lucky :D

While there was an incredible amount of shooting skill and knowledge and use of equipment his small group was akin to how some of us get that 1/2" group at 100 yards out of our leverguns on very rare occasions.

Good for him....he will be riding high for quite some time.----006
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by Grizz »

anybody can choose a calm air time to shoot, it was the pulse of 30 BPS that made it happen . . .

CONGRATS TO THE MAN that did it
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by marlinman93 »

When he says he's "dumping" the shots, I really wonder how long that time frame is? I doubt he's shooting all the 10 rds. in a very short period of time. Probably just quicker than he might do so if it was a range with less or no wind. The winds stated are not bad, and since they held steady for him, it certainly made the record more possible than had they been higher, or varying.

I've never done any high power benchrest shooting. Still trying to just get decent hits at 1,000 yds. off cross sticks with old slow cartridges, and iron sights.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by Rockrat »

I saw where he shoots with 6-10 seconds between rounds. Wants to get rounds off before wind changes. Said wind was blowing 5-7 mph. Quite a feat.

Not only was it a 2.6" group, but it was all X's. A 100-10x. Think they said the best group before that was a 100-6x and 2.68", so beat it by .080" and 4x more.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by .45colt »

When the Moon and Stars All Line Up ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.... No Luck involved. when I was shooting trap & skeet for years I saw Shooters do incredible things with shotguns that No body would believe. At 83 He has prolly paid His Dues 40 years ago. God Bless Him.!
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by Sixgun »

marlinman93 wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:07 am
When he says he's "dumping" the shots, I really wonder how long that time frame is? I doubt he's shooting all the 10 rds. in a very short period of time. Probably just quicker than he might do so if it was a range with less or no wind. The winds stated are not bad, and since they held steady for him, it certainly made the record more possible than had they been higher, or varying.

I've never done any high power benchrest shooting. Sticll trying to just get decent hits at 1,000 yds. off cross sticks with old slow cartridges, and iron sights.
(I don't read this, I've watched it)

These guys use actions that have a cut out on the left side......they will lift the bolt, eject and simultaneously put in a loaded round through the slot. Bear down and shoot.......these guns are "locked in" with very expensive heavy rests all on cement or heavy timbered benches so there is no or very little readjusting the cross hair.

Dont believe there's more than 5 -8 seconds between shots.

On thousand yard ranges there will be wind flags at each 100 yard increment and its common to see 3 wind flags flying in different directions. This was at the famous Ridgeway Rifle Club in upstate Pa.......

If an individual thinks they know it all just attend one of these matches and you'll walk away with your tail between your legs.

One day I asked the number one shooter if he thinks the long range military snipers are better at this game and he looked at me like I was stupid and responded, "they learn from us."-----6
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by Blaine »

Military Snipers don't have concrete shooting benches, and wind flags...and, they are getting shot at, as well. They will stay motionless for hours, or even days waiting for a shot letting bugs, snakes abound. These guys that shoot at targets would die if they were up against a military sniper.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by CowboyTutt »

That's some pretty outstanding shooting for sure! A combination of some very specialized equipment, skill, and some luck involved too as Six pointed out all came together here. I thought it was funny when he mentioned he was glad he couldn't see his hits as the stress on that last shot would have been HUGE!!!! LOL :lol: A friend of a friend was actually there when it happened. -Tutt
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by marlinman93 »

Blaine wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:02 pm
Military Snipers don't have concrete shooting benches, and wind flags...and, they are getting shot at, as well. They will stay motionless for hours, or even days waiting for a shot letting bugs, snakes abound. These guys that shoot at targets would die if they were up against a military sniper.
Love that Blaine!
And I'd like to see how these high power long range shooters would do in the same scenario as a sniper works? The response the shooter gave of "they learn from us" smacks of a huge ego, and someone whose never been in a combat sniper's situation most likely.

As for wind flags, I've never used them, and they're worthless in BPCR or Creedmoor type shooting, whether you use a scope or iron sights. The trajectory takes the bullets on a 50'-60' high arc, so what the wind is doing at ground level means very little to the bullet's path of flight to the target.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by piller »

The Military Snipers use any and all information they can get. If you think they take just anyone to train, think again. Those men are way better than most, and they have a lot to learn. The movie American Sniper almost totally overlooked the hardest parts of the training. Yes, the people who do the benchrest competitions have a lot of knowledge and they can be learned from. Sort of like how automobile designers learn from Formula 1 and from Nascar. It may not totally apply to your situation, but it can be learned from as a part of the entire knowledge base.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by Old Savage »

Great achievement no doubt but ... looking at pictures of what they are doing makes it apparent that it has not much akin to resting a rifle over gym bag on a bench and holding it with both hands without the button bagged in.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

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So we can naturally wonder how this compares to our shooting. These were shot sitting at a bench with the rifle rested over a gym bag, holding it butt and forend with both hands at 100.yds. BLR has a 4X Leupold. Remington has a 25X Leupold. Not particularly unusual at all with the friends I have shot with. Guess I would say that any one else who I know that is serious bags the butt in. Seemed to me that my way more nearly translates to field shooting sitting or prone.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by Sixgun »

That's some shootin' there Fred.....never knew you played with the .243, a cartridge I've only shot but never loaded for. The old Remington 700 Varmints from the seventies were pretty much a benchrest gun right from the factory.....

Only an individual with small reasoning powers would interpret what that top shooter at Ridgeway told me as "they learn from the civilians" as pertaining to "sniping".........he meant and what most smart people will agree with the "art of shooting and everything it encompasses"..----006
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by jkbrea »

Long range shooting and sniping are two different things that share several skills but have different objectives and equipment. Long range guys take a long time calculating shots. Snipers sometines have no time for that.
Prior to retirement, I had the privilege of training with some guys from Coronado Island in San Diego. While talking to one of their snipers, he was amazed that police trained for tiny one hole groups and took head shots and that most actual shots on callouts were less than 100 yards. He said they trained for hundreds of yards and center mass shots. I asked him, "What about hostage rescue shots?" He replied, "Hostages? They knew it was a dangerous job when they took it!" 😂
I learned a lot from long range shooters. They really get into the science of bullets, bullet weight, etc..and ugglh..math. I never got into all that. I shoot some long distance now. Usually 600 to 1100 yards. Longest was a little over a mile with a Ruger Precision 6.5, factory ammo. Military and police snipers use what their agency supplies them and make the best of it. The equipment is good, but not delicate. The awsome part was when manufacturers bring stuff for testing...and its free!
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by Blaine »

Most people don't have any idea what a military sniper goes thru. Period. It's ignorant to assume otherwise. :roll:
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by AJMD429 »

I’m sure benchrest shooters and snipers both have things to learn from one another. Theory and practicality, respectively, and neither stands alone when the goal is so extreme.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by Sixgun »

AJMD429 wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:04 pm
I’m sure benchrest shooters and snipers both have things to learn from one another. Theory and practicality, respectively, and neither stands alone when the goal is so extreme.
Not really Doc...I can't see where the snipers have anything to offer the benchrest game. In benchrest everything is a constant.....bench, rest, target, distance.....but the physics is the same bewteeen the two. Snipers need to know the same as the benchrest guys as to the physics of the game but with added "unconstants" because they have variable platforms to hold their gun, more stress, distances are variables........they are not shooting "groups", unless you call Muslims "groups".....sure, groups of Muslims, cans etc.

Lones Wigger, one of the best offhand target shooters to ever live did not fare in shooting silhouettes up at Ridgeway as he did shooting groups at Camp Perry. He was used to shooting groups on paper but when he went for the steel animals he fell into the top 5%......he did great but was beat by many others.

I've heard a trap or skeet shooter is not the best on live birds...good, but not as good as the game they trained in.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by CowboyTutt »

Remember this one? Some cross-over of skill sets with BR shooters and snipers, but not that much IMHO. Put a BR shooter on a boat, shooting at a person on another boat, at a downward angle without his benches and 25 lb rifle.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/200 ... -away.html

Still was some incredible BR shooting, but not the same as sniping hardly at all as pointed out by others. Any BR shooter who says "they learn from us" is a complete a**.

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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by Sixgun »

CowboyTutt wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:29 pm


Still was some incredible BR shooting, but not the same as sniping hardly at all as pointed out by others. Any BR shooter who says "they learn from us" is a complete a**.
-Tutt
Tutt,
Your missing the point........forget the sniping aspect of it...forget the camouflage, forget the three days waiting for your "target" to appear, forget the range estimation, forget the wind estimation, forget the ghillie suit, forget the marksmanship that is needed to pop some guy in a boat while it's moving or while he is hiding behind a door with a hostage, forget the special personalities that it take to be a sniper..

The best benchrest varmint shooter (this is only done at Ridgeway Rifle Club at ranges from 800 to 1000 yards) in the country pointed out to me, "what it takes from a standpoint of gathering a bullet, the scope, the load, the caliber, case, primer, chamber leade, rifling twist, type of rifling, number of grooves, crown, length of barrel, heaviness of barrel, diameter of barrel, trigger, action, type of steel that is used in the action and barrel, hardening of the moving parts, and putting this all together for the epitome of accuracy to hit a grapefruit at 1,000 yards....or how many yards he is shooting....(THIS INFORMATION/TECHNOLOGY is learned from the private sector, not the military.

Remember, this post started out as a benchrest shooter who made a small group at 1,000 yards..One my second reply I wrote,.......... "One day I asked the number one shooter if he thinks the long range military snipers are better at this game. (BENCHREST SHOOTING) and he looked at me like I was stupid and responded, "they learn from us." ................-----6

The military does not make any of these things, they buy the best from the private sector which in turn get their information from the best benchrest shooters in the country.-----006. :D
Last edited by Sixgun on Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by CowboyTutt »

Six, you are my friend, and perhaps even mentor. But I have to respectfully disagree here. You posted the following:
The best benchrest varmint shooter (this is only done at Ridgeway Rifle Club at ranges from 800 to 1000 yards) in the country pointed out to me, "what it takes from a standpoint of gathering a bullet, the scope, the load, the caliber, case, primer, chamber leade, rifling twist, type of rifling, number of grooves, crown, length of barrel, heaviness of barrel, diameter of barrel, trigger, action, type of steel that is used in the action and barrel, hardening of the moving parts, and putting this all together for the epitome of accuracy to hit a grapefruit at 1,000 yards....or how many yards he is shooting....(THIS INFORMATION/TECHNOLOGY is learned from the private sector, not the military.

Remember, this post started out as a benchrest shooter who made a small group at 1,000 yards..One my second reply I wrote,.......... "One day I asked the number one shooter if he thinks the long range military snipers are better at this game. (BENCHREST SHOOTING) and he looked at me like I was stupid and responded, "they learn from us." ................-----6

The military does not make any of these things, they buy the best from the private sector which in turn get their information from the best benchrest shooters in the country.-----006. :D
Six, the military conditions for sniper fire are very different from BR shooting at a comfy bench rest on a comfy concrete couch when they can specifically order a custom rifle to their personal choice as you said. Sorry Man, not the same thing! Newest US military sniper rifle, is a real gift. I say again, the shooting conditions are not nearly the same thing at all, not even remotely so. A BR shooter has the advantage of fixed and highly customized shooting rifle and conditions with a custom rifle, built to their personal specs, as you said. A sniper has to react to field conditions that no BR shooter would ever have to do. Its apples and orangutans. Not even remotely the same thing. Enjoy the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAlmlb8 ... 15&t=1132s
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Re: New 1000yd record group

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My friend......I'll simplify it to the lowest commmon denominator........"how to make an accurate cartridge and gun...nothing else...nothing.----- :D ------006
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by gamekeeper »

Shooting is Shooting, you can snipe with a BR rifle and BR with a sniper rifle. What you ultimately use for either type of Shooting is what suits you and THAT particular job the best.
Been that way through history forever, military and civilian Shooting converging for the best accuracy potential, it would be foolish to ignore the lessons learnt from whoever has the most proven accuracy record. If you ever come over to England visit the museum in Bisley.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by Old Savage »

gk, take s look at those heavy br 1000 yd rifles. You certainly are not going to carry one of those around. Personally not interesting in anything over 9.5 lbs.

But as Six was saying they are certainly the test beds for all the components together that are necessary for that kind of accuracy. Tutt was referring the conditions in which military snipers work. Both can d issues. I seen no agreement between the the two, separate concepts.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

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In the pictures I presented the guns are very precise. The 81 BLR has a very stiff receiver and a bolt like lock up. It also has a tight chamber and .241 barrel. Starting loads can be close to Max. The Remington 700 .223 is like a bench rest rifle in many respects. It has a heavy barrel is free floated in a pillar bedded in a high end synthetic stock.

The BLR is a little curious. It is marked .243 Only. With the iron sights at their lowest setting it is sighted for 400 yds. Miroku makes some nicely machined and fitted rifles.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

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As I said, what you ULTIMATELY use for either type of Shooting is what suits you and THAT PARTICULAR job the best.
Different rifles with the same potential for accuracy but in very different conditions, the military are not going to ignore civilian weapons or ammunition that that are capable of extreme accuracy, they will use it if they can and adapt it to suit their requirements.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

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Can't buy that Brit. Guns change a lot for different applications. And I am sure much more over here. You could take either of the guns I described and have no chance against heavy bench rifles. And if you tried to use heavy bench rifles for anything else ... good luck.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

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The Benchrest Shooters do test and find out what bullet weights, twist rates, gilding metal, barrel size, type of rifling, and a few factors are best for hitting targets at known distances. Like automotive designers use racing tor testing, the gun manufacturers and the Military Industrial Complex use Benchrest Shooting to test new ideas, calibers, and such.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

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Sixgun wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:01 am
My friend......I'll simplify it to the lowest commmon denominator........"how to make an accurate cartridge and gun...nothing else...nothing.----- :D ------006

I hear ya old Friend, I hear ya! :D -T-
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Re: New 1000yd record group

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I don't know if anyone actually looked at the video link I posted, but the new Barret MRAD military sniper rifle is just amazing, modular in design with 3 different chamberings, and portable in one case. Honestly, I could consider taking out a loan to get one, and sell off almost every rifle I have as it would be obsolete. I have no interest in a 25 lb rifle either as O.S. said.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/202 ... rifle.html

The shooting conditions are just different, no tables, no benches, etc but would agree the military probably pays attention to what BR guys are doing, and occasionally adapt some of it, but it has to be usable for their purposes. You don't see them using the 6.5 BR calibers. -Tutt
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Re: New 1000yd record group

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CowboyTutt wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:51 pm
I don't know if anyone actually looked at the video link I posted, but the new Barret MRAD military sniper rifle is just amazing, modular in design with 3 different chamberings, and portable in one case. Honestly, I could consider taking out a loan to get one, and sell off almost every rifle I have as it would be obsolete. I have no interest in a 25 lb rifle either as O.S. said.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/202 ... rifle.html

The shooting conditions are just different, no tables, no benches, etc but would agree the military probably pays attention to what BR guys are doing, and occasionally adapt some of it, but it has to be usable for their purposes. You don't see them using the 6.5 BR calibers. -Tutt
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Re: New 1000yd record group

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I've heard of Carlos many times. How do you do that range on a MOVING TARGET on a bicycle??? !!!!!! I'm sorry, SOMEONE forgot to tell the BR guys the target might be moving!!!

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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by Old Savage »

Andy, at the range I shoot at where you have been there is some urban PD training that goes on regularly. But one weekend one of the police snipers brought one of their rifles for some testing. It was a 20" barreled Rem 700 in a tactical looking composite stock pillar bedded in .308. I might say kind of like their varmint rifle in different garb. Since their distances are short and they are in and out of police vehicles a short barrel is in order.

Any 700 I have had is easily capable of sub inch groups down to maybe 1/4". That includes three Mountain Rifles. In fact the only true one hole group that looked like onebbillet hole I have shot out of thousands was with a 20" barreled SS Model 7 with synthetic stock that Pat and I bedded. It is a 7-08. Prior to bedding it was an inch and a half rifle. About halfway through the 1,000 RSS through it I did a break in procedure which surprisingly to me helped further.

As Six said all the technicalities can be important and that's one place these 1000 yd guys must really be on top of things.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by gamekeeper »

Quote Old Savage

Can't buy that Brit. Guns change a lot for different applications. And I am sure much more over here. You could take either of the guns I described and have no chance against heavy bench rifles. And if you tried to use heavy bench rifles for anything else ... good luck.

OS, I have neither been a bench rest shooter or a military sniper but I have enough commonsense to know that a top BR shooter ain't going to the top with a WW2 Russian sniper rifle or a operational sniper is going to lug around a BR rifle, what I stated was the intended purpose of BOTH rifles is hitting a long range target.
It is perfectly obvious that they each do that under very different conditions and require very different rifles, what I am saying is that throughout the history of long range shooting the military have not ignored civilian innovation in achieving this goal. More or less what Sixgun stated. I am sorry if being a Brit excludes me from making a comment.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by Old Savage »

All true that.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by Sixgun »

piller wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:10 pm
The Benchrest Shooters do test and find out what bullet weights, twist rates, gilding metal, barrel size, type of rifling, and a few factors are best for hitting targets at known distances. Like automotive designers use racing tor testing, the gun manufacturers and the Military Industrial Complex use Benchrest Shooting to test new ideas, calibers, and such.
Prove me wrong!
THATS what I've been saying .......the military learns from civilians.......but people like to play with other people's minds and they think the others don't know what they are doing. :D The former trust is now gone and all info will be forwarded to Heinrich Himmler and Reinhard Heydrich for further investigation.

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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by Old Savage »

Six, one note on "discussions" with Tutt, we have had a lot of them. He gets pretty committed to his thought line. Been trying to get him to get a regular gun of some kind for years. He almost made it this time. A Rem 20 GA. 870 Express would have been my pick for him.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by Sixgun »

I know that Fred....Everyone who is alive has the right to feel and have the choice of their own choosings.....I'm just playing .....last I heard it's a free country....... :D ......for now.............----6
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by Blaine »

Perhaps Tutt and I have a different dictionary.....
If I implied that Military Snipers don't benefit from BR Shooter's experience, that would not be true.
BUT then again, Military Snipers do not Quote "put their tails between their legs" compared to a BR Shooter. But, if one has never been in the Military, they can be forgiven their ignorance.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by piller »

While both sets need accurate rifles, the size and portability of the rifle and the style of shooting is different. I would expect the top Military snipers to be able to shoot just as well ad the top Benchrest shooters when both have the exacp same equipment. The Military snipers must do it from sometimes less than ideal positions and in weather conditions which are not as good as would be preferred.

Sort of like driving Formula 1 or Indy cars versus adapting that technology for Law Enforcement. Some Law Enforcement vehicles have motor and drivetrain technology as well as tire technology which has not yet been released to the general public. In the case of Benchrest shooters, they are the testing and proving ground for many powders, lead alloys, and copper alloys. Once something shows promise, the Military starts looking. The Military moves and adapts at a glacially slow pace on the whole, but special units can adjust much quicker. The Marine Snipers are quite good at finding technology that they can use to improve their abilities.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by Griff »

piller wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:11 pm
While both sets need accurate rifles, the size and portability of the rifle and the style of shooting is different. I would expect the top Military snipers to be able to shoot just as well ad the top Benchrest shooters when both have the exacp same equipment. The Military snipers must do it from sometimes less than ideal positions and in weather conditions which are not as good as would be preferred.
Sort of like driving Formula 1 or Indy cars versus adapting that technology for Law Enforcement. Some Law Enforcement vehicles have motor and drivetrain technology as well as tire technology which has not yet been released to the general public. In the case of Benchrest shooters, they are the testing and proving ground for many powders, lead alloys, and copper alloys. Once something shows promise, the Military starts looking. The Military moves and adapts at a glacially slow pace on the whole, but special units can adjust much quicker. The Marine Snipers are quite good at finding technology that they can use to improve their abilities.
You'd be surprised on both accounts.
Any specialized unit has access to equipment that can be quite cutting edge. Training aids that rival anything, but... in the field, the majority of those aids are bulky, cumbersome, and a distraction that can be ill-afforded. But, the military sniper has one very excellent advantage the BR shooter doesn't have... a spotter. He's the guy that susses out the wind dope and keeps the "big" picture in mind.

And believe when I say that the police cars and race cars have very little in common... Yes, they have engines, transmissions and drivetrains... but they're more akin to your family sedan that a race car! Can we spell "budget constraints"? The only difference between my pursuit Camaro and my personal RS Camaro? An electronic chip that limits the top end on my personal car. Same tires, brakes, engine, but a different trans... apparently purchasing decision makers don't believe that cops can drive stick shifts... or at least not all can! And due to a legitimate lack of need, my personal car is lighter and handles better than that pursuit model. (No radio, and in today's environment, no computer, camera equipment and tracking stuff)! Surprising enough, although the automatic RS could have the bigger engine, the manual one gets more torque and driveability... more responsive power. And in today's world, there's a reason why when I rebuild my RS, I've going with the LS engine family!
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by AJMD429 »

One example to keep in mind during this discussion is the way crazy long range target shooters decided to start building heavy 50 BMG Rifles for long range target shooting, and then the military started after that.

Learning is a two-way street for sure.
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by CowboyTutt »

Hi Guys, I'm back from Utah and CO and FoBD. Will have a travel log and range report in increments soon. I drove for 13 1/2 half hours today and 810 miles, and drove for 8 hours with some help from McPherson yesterday, not sure the mileage. To say I'm exhausted would be an understatement. Back to this thread for a moment. Blaine said the following in an earlier post:

Carlos Hathcock once fitted a Ma Duce with a scope and made a kill at 2500 meters at a moving target.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/201 ... -ma-duece/
[/quote]

I've since confirmed that Carlos was indeed shooting at a moving target at 2500 meters. Considering how long it takes the "package" to get there, the amount of skill involved is simply breath-taking to time it right. BR shooters don't have to do this drill. It's like hitting the "running deer" game target except your doing it at 2500 meters!!! Or perhaps hitting off a bobbing boat on a bobbing target at short range as I already illustrated. Yes, perhaps the military learns from the BR guys, but military guns have to be more packable, and the situations they find themselves in are not as artificial as what the BR guys do. I know, I know, there are some "baseline" similarities, but after that, the similarities end.

When was the last time a BR guy shot at a moving target??? Come on Guys!

Old Savage, I have a Ruger SA revolver and hopefully soon a repaired Colt Lightning rifle in 45 Colt, 2 guns in 454 Casull (one regular, one regular and extended), 375 H&H (A.I. Extended or not), 303 Brit (extended or not), 358 Win (yes, commercial ammo was available up until the pandemic, there seems to have been a resurgence in that cartridge in the last few years) and full strength 10mm which is also seeing a popular resurgence right now.

The only true "wild cat" is the 416/284 McPherson project which is moving along at Aria Ballistic Engineering or A.B.E. for short on an immaculate Model '88 Win. But once you have the reamers and dies and fire-formed cases and a copy of QuickLoad, or just some load data, it's no big deal to anyone who handloads at all.

All of my guns except one in the process can shoot conventional ammo. The Ithaca '37 L.A.P.D. Special shotgun is 2 3/4 shell, the most common variety length.

I don't know why you keep bringing this subject up.

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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by Sixgun »

Hey Tutt....good to see you had a nice trip....and yes, driving wears you out.....it's not the driving but always being on the alert with other drivers.....people think nothing of driving 80 m.p.h. zipping in and out.........since last July 24, 2020 I put on 410 miles on my Rubicon....I like it better at home.

You got a Colt Lightning in 45 L.Colt???? That baby is rare! I collect those too...have em in 32-20, 38-40, and 44-40. Never knew they made them in 45 L.Colt.

I'm not discussing that sniper/benchrest thing anymore.......-----006
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Re: New 1000yd record group

Post by CowboyTutt »

Mine is a Pedersoli copy that Steve Young gun smithed for me old friend. I believe he set it up so it can "slam fire" too. It just needs a replacement barrel as the original Pedersoli one has a terrible, terrible chamber that causes cases to bulge on one side with +P loads which interferes with the ejection a lot. Hoping to get it repaired this year for sure.

-Tutt
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