Pellet Guns

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AJMD429
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Pellet Guns

Post by AJMD429 »

With the cost of ammo going nuts, when the grandkids or others want to shoot, I'll probably get out the 177 piston air rifle and we can use that more . . . what is the best weight pellet in that caliber for that type rifle, in terms of practical accuracy and potential use for small game...???
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Re: Pellet Guns

Post by gamekeeper »

I find that different air guns vary in what works best, I buy a few different brands and weights and use whatever the particular gun shoots best, in low powered ( under 12 foot pounds) air guns, pointed or hollow point pellets do not perform as well as the old fashioned round nose pellets. Shirley's Slavia shoots some pellets fine but they don't work well at all in my Norica.
.177 is my choice in low powered air guns and my son who is a professional trapper and often uses airguns in his job swears by .177 for small game.
I discovered that the .177 was more effective than the .22 as a kid when I had a Webley air pistol with both barrels and then too many years as a pest control officer and even longer as a squirrel hunter. Of course in the US you can easily buy more powerful airguns which may make the .22 king, we are limited to sub 12 FTP or they are classed as Firearms... :roll:
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Re: Pellet Guns

Post by Marvin S »

Probably not the case but you normally don’t want lite weight or alloy pellets in high powered spring piston guns due to not enough back pressure to prevent piston impact when fired. That’s about all I got on the matter.
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Re: Pellet Guns

Post by FLINT »

AJMD429 wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:36 am With the cost of ammo going nuts, when the grandkids or others want to shoot, I'll probably get out the 177 piston air rifle and we can use that more . . . what is the best weight pellet in that caliber for that type rifle, in terms of practical accuracy and potential use for small game...???
I'm a big airgun fan! I'll need to know what air rifle you have to make a more specific recommendation - but in general spring piston airguns do best with lighter to mid weight pellets. you are probably pretty safe with anything in the 8 grain +/- 1 grain range. A good place to start would be crosman premier 7.9 grain or JSB 8.4 grain domes. I usually order from Pyramyd air as they have a great buy 3 get 1 free pellet deal and always package them very well.

like any gun - but actually even more so, some pellet guns can be really picky and will shoot extremely well with its favorite pellet(s) and extremely bad with something it doesn't like. and spring piston guns, especially the chinese imports can be extra finicky, as they are hold sensitive and hard on scopes.

I'd avoid any hyper velocity/lead free junk, as those are not likely to shoot well and are expensive. I'd also avoid any pointed or hollow point pellets, as those are for the most part marketing gimicks. stick with a good mid weight high quality lead dome pellet.
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Re: Pellet Guns

Post by Larkbill »

I'm far from expert but have learned quite a bit from shooting airgun silhouettes at my club.

I thought my Gamo was fairly accurate until I tried to use it for this game. Pellet guns are just like .22s in that you have to try various types and brands of ammo to find out what it "likes". One of the things my Gamo taught me is that you are usually better off with heavier pellets rather than lighter. Going through the sound barrier makes them unstable.

Spring air, both metal and gas, shoot better with the "artillery" hold. You cradle the gun rather than gripping it tightly, letting it move much like an artillery barrel. Definitely takes some practice. I ended up leaving my Gamo home and shooting the club's Daisy 853 guns. Our top shooters mostly have some sort of PCP (pre-charged, much like the Lewis & Clark gun) or high end single pump air. I'm going to stick with shooting the club guns because I miss over half the matches while we're gone to Florida and prefer to invest in the guns I shoot in our lever gun matches during the warm parts of the year.

Many of the pellet mfgs offer pellet sample packs with several types and weights so you can experiment and find the best one for your gun. But be careful. Once you get sucked in they are just as adept as enablers as we are. Next thing you know you'll be building and tuning your own. Lots of folks out there willing to take your money and send you toys. Good news is all of it can be shipped.
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Re: Pellet Guns

Post by marlinman93 »

I started out buying a tin of 7.3 gr. pellets, and they were very accurate. But I noticed as I pushed distances out they were a little less accurate in my Gamo Whisper. I bought a tin of 10 gr. pellets, and they're just as accurate under 50', but more accurate at longer distances. Not quite as fast, but the little velocity they lose with being heavier isn't much to worry about. I mostly shoot the 10 gr. now.

I once thought I'd get serious about airgun shooting and bought a wonderful Anschutz rifle that used dive tank to charge it. I got it barely used from a friend along with the tank and all sorts of extras. It was indeed more accurate at our indoor 50' range than almost any .22 rifle, or any other airgun. But I soon figured out it was more airgun than I'd use much, and sold it. Since I got it right I didn't lose. The buyer was out of state, and didn't want the dive tank due to shipping cost. So I donated the tank to our junior team to use in their airgun matches.
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Re: Pellet Guns

Post by OldWin »

To me, if you want to target shoot it's fine. If you want to feed yourself with small game, snares and traps are way more effective.
The big and powerful air guns are quite pricey. And if we turn to air guns due to supply and legal problems with conventional firearms, rest assured, it won't be long and effective air guns will be the same.
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Re: Pellet Guns

Post by Larkbill »

"And if we turn to air guns due to supply and legal problems with conventional firearms, rest assured, it won't be long and effective air guns will be the same.
As Gamekeeper can attest."

True. Though as of right now Hatsan sells a fully automatic gun available in calibers up to .45. One of the fellows I shot with last week wants to get one in .30. Said that one air filling will fire 100 shots. Hard to justify outlawing it though. How do you rob a bank dragging around an extension cord?

"I started out buying a tin of 7.3 gr. pellets, and they were very accurate. But I noticed as I pushed distances out they were a little less accurate in my Gamo Whisper. I bought a tin of 10 gr. pellets, and they're just as accurate under 50', but more accurate at longer distances. Not quite as fast, but the little velocity they lose with being heavier isn't much to worry about. I mostly shoot the 10 gr. now."

I think this is that supersonic thing I was talking about. Had the same problem with my Gamo shooting the rams. 11 gr. pellets improved it a bunch I think because they stayed subsonic.
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Re: Pellet Guns

Post by GunnyMack »

Guy I work with was at out 'local Cabelas recently, he said ya couldn't even buy pellets! Between the Bass Pro buy and our current state of affairs nothing is available.
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Re: Pellet Guns

Post by barbarossa »

I have these three co2 pistols that I shoot in my basement during the winter for fun
1875 Remington ,Schofield, and a Webleyv1. I also have one of the diana mauser air rifles as well
The diana mauser in 22cal is powerful enough for small game hunting and can be scoped equipped but it is a heavy gun to carry .I use mine mainly to reduce the squirrel population around the property when it gets out of hand and they become destructive

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Re: Pellet Guns

Post by marlinman93 »

Larkbill wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:57 pm I think this is that supersonic thing I was talking about. Had the same problem with my Gamo shooting the rams. 11 gr. pellets improved it a bunch I think because they stayed subsonic.
Another theory is that at closer distances the pellet stays supersonic all the way from muzzle to target. Where as lighter pellets drop below supersonic as they're getting to longer distance. So they go through twice on the way to the target. Once as they exit, and again somewhere in route. Most agree that the first time exiting the barrel doesn't have much effect, but the 2nd can begin to destabilize the projectile.
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Re: Pellet Guns

Post by .45colt »

Thanks for this thread Doc !. Got Me motivated to get My Sheridan blue streak .20cal I bought when I was 14 fixed. I re member plunking $37.00 of My hay money down on the counter of the hardware store . I put more than 1500 rnds thru it before I gave it to My Son. It's going on a trip Tuesday to be rebuilt . It still shoots fine but needs some tlc that I can't do. I am ordering a Williams 5D receiver sight as well. :D .
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Re: Pellet Guns

Post by Blaine »

Some people see the One Ragged Hole groups by (nearly) professional airgunners on a benchrest and think that they are going to duplicate that sort of accuracy. When they can't, then starts the procession of a dozen different pellets to find "the best one". If you do all your shooting from a solid bench, you will probably find one particular brand/weight that is better.
On the other hand, if you are shooting from normal hunting/plinking positions I doubt if that One Ragged Hole is any more doable that if you were shooting your "real" rifles.
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Re: Pellet Guns

Post by marlinman93 »

Blaine wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:03 pm Some people see the One Ragged Hole groups by (nearly) professional airgunners on a benchrest and think that they are going to duplicate that sort of accuracy. When they can't, then starts the procession of a dozen different pellets to find "the best one". If you do all your shooting from a solid bench, you will probably find one particular brand/weight that is better.
On the other hand, if you are shooting from normal hunting/plinking positions I doubt if that One Ragged Hole is any more doable that if you were shooting your "real" rifles.
I've watched some shoot those ragged one hole groups offhand! And not always adults either! Some of the shooters on our Junior team are amazing with air rifle, and .22 rifles.
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Re: Pellet Guns

Post by jeepnik »

I've used a CO2 S&W model 41 lookalike for years for handgun practice. The essentials of sights, hold and squeeze remain the same as a firearm. I've had a succession of air rifles for the same purpose and they work pretty well for that. These airguns are also a lot of fun. But, this one is by far the most fun of all. Be warned if you go this route you will burn through both BB's and CO2 cartridges.
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Re: Pellet Guns

Post by Blaine »

marlinman93 wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:45 pm
Blaine wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:03 pm Some people see the One Ragged Hole groups by (nearly) professional airgunners on a benchrest and think that they are going to duplicate that sort of accuracy. When they can't, then starts the procession of a dozen different pellets to find "the best one". If you do all your shooting from a solid bench, you will probably find one particular brand/weight that is better.
On the other hand, if you are shooting from normal hunting/plinking positions I doubt if that One Ragged Hole is any more doable that if you were shooting your "real" rifles.
I've watched some shoot those ragged one hole groups offhand! And not always adults either! Some of the shooters on our Junior team are amazing with air rifle, and .22 rifles.
Ya know, I led with "nearly professional" as a condition.
If I remember correctly the distance for air rifle was 10 meters. But, that's ok :lol: Let's see the average person with average equipment do it at average plinking range.
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Re: Pellet Guns

Post by CowboyTutt »

I started doing some research on this after I bought my custom Sam Yang 45 Light Hunter PCP and Hatsan "Carnivore" (Lordy, what a cornball marketing campaign :lol: ) 135 QE 30 caliber air springer. My airgun friends told me to keep velocity down to 850-900 fps max with a pellet. Turns out they were exactly right. The hype about 1100 fps from airgun manufacturers in 17 caliber is just that, marketing hype. Totally useless accuracy beyond very short range. These are the two best videos I found explaining why. The first one pertains to firearms and bullets in general, not just airguns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpDKxVuRWto&t=638s

This second one pertains to pellets in particular and addresses why what the airgun world calls "slugs" or "hybrid slugs" perform better and we would call them "bullets". I've also been advised that a hollow base round nose bullet is very accurate to use if you can find them for your caliber.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR5j4aZ ... x=26&t=22s

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Re: Pellet Guns

Post by Blaine »

CowboyTutt wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:47 pm I started doing some research on this after I bought my custom Sam Yang 45 Light Hunter PCP and Hatsan "Carnivore" (Lordy, what a cornball marketing campaign :lol: ) 135 QE 30 caliber air springer. My airgun friends told me to keep velocity down to 850-900 fps max with a pellet. Turns out they were exactly right. The hype about 1100 fps from airgun manufacturers in 17 caliber is just that, marketing hype. Totally useless accuracy beyond very short range. These are the two best videos I found explaining why. The first one pertains to firearms and bullets in general, not just airguns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpDKxVuRWto&t=638s

This second one pertains to pellets in particular and addresses why what the airgun world calls "slugs" or "hybrid slugs" perform better and we would call them "bullets". I've also been advised that a hollow base round nose bullet is very accurate to use if you can find them for your caliber.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR5j4aZ ... x=26&t=22s

Both are well worth watching if you have a few minutes. -Tutt
I've never got around to it yet, but my scientific wild-butt guess is that securing a BB in the hollowpoint of my Crosman 14.3 .22 pellets, and closing up the hollow base with a drop of glue just might be "interesting" to fool around with. A weight-forward "slug" as it were.
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Re: Pellet Guns

Post by marlinman93 »

Not sure what standard air rifle distances are? Our juniors shoot at 50', just as they do with .22RF rifles. They're hardly "professionals" as most are middle school, with a few reaching high school age. And I can't shoot as well off bench, prone, or sitting as most of these youngsters do offhand!
But I've always considered any data posted in various gun magazines as pie in the sky myself. It's fun to read about what groups various guns get in their reviews, but rarely matches what most of us get. More like a goal we can strive for, if we ever had perfect conditions, and all the stars aligned.
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Re: Pellet Guns

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marlinman93 wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:05 pm Not sure what standard air rifle distances are? Our juniors shoot at 50', just as they do with .22RF rifles. They're hardly "professionals" as most are middle school, with a few reaching high school age. And I can't shoot as well off bench, prone, or sitting as most of these youngsters do offhand!
But I've always considered any data posted in various gun magazines as pie in the sky myself. It's fun to read about what groups various guns get in their reviews, but rarely matches what most of us get. More like a goal we can strive for, if we ever had perfect conditions, and all the stars aligned.
10 meters is the "official" distance for air gun competitions.
I think Air Gun Silhouettes would be fun, too. I think the size and distance varies a bit from club to club.
Col. Cooper's opinion about Group Size is sort of like mine: One shot group. Did I hit it? Yes. Good Group. :lol:
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