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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by shasta_steve »

I think it has a lot to do with perception. I think people think they are getting a "real" Winchester vs a knockoff. I also think for years that that Italian and Brazilian made guns were not always seen as being high quality. I don't know much about Rossi but I do have a Brazilian made Taurus 9mm that I have put thousands of rounds through and never had any problems with. I agree with you about the Uberti guns I think they make fantastic guns. I have one now but I think it was actually made by Pedersoli. When I finally get around to ordering a 73 it will definitely be an Uberti but in 44-40. I really want a 76 also.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by JimT »

My first "Winchester" was a Model 92 .44-40 made by Garate, Anitua y Cia in Spain. They made these "Winchesters" between 1915 and 1938. It was a great rifle. I have had Winchester Winchesters in Model 1886, Model 71, Model 94 and "Winchesters" made by Rossi. All have been great guns and served me well.

I liked the old Winchesters because of the nostalgia factor. Same reason I like old Colts. My USFA "Colt" is a better gun than some of the old Colts I had, but it does not have that indefinable factor about it that has nothing to do with how it shoots.

We humans are weird that way.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by earlmck »

And isn't it pretty dang fine that several outfits are making fine leverguns for our enjoyment?
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by JimT »

earlmck wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:13 am And isn't it pretty dang fine that several outfits are making fine leverguns for our enjoyment?
I think so!
Great observation by the way.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by Old Savage »

In my experience with my guns Miroku machining is better than that of the others: B92s in 357 and 44 Mag and an 81 BLR. I like my Rossi 92s in 357 and 45.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by piller »

There is just no way to avoid admitting that shooting a levergun which works right is fun. Never shot one that was not fun. As far as the differences between manufacturers, I am not really concerned. If I wanted to worry about best accuracy or smoothest action I might bother about manufacturer.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by Old Savage »

Well Steve, I have a Rolex and a "Timex". The Rolex is worth 2 1/2 times what I bought it for in 86. So you make your choice and you pay your money.

BTW, my newer Rossis are better and smoother than an older one I had and the chambers are tighter but still work. But I also have inexpensive and expensive guns. Not either or to me.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by Sixgun »

Go Rossi Up with globalism!.....up with NAFTA!......down with American exceptionism.....---6
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by Buck Elliott »

WINCHESTER Hass not truly been "Winchester", since the merger/buy-out by Olin-Western Cartridge, in 1935.

The Miroku factory is owned and operated by the entity which owns the rights and trade-marks relating to Winchester firearms, making Miroku the legal maker and marketer of Winchester (and Browning) sporting firearms.
As a consumer, your desires and opinions have no effect on those particulars.
You are free to choose to buy or not to buy, depending on your interpretation of the facts, as they stand .
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by Buck Elliott »

earlmck wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:13 am And isn't it pretty dang fine that several outfits are making fine leverguns for our enjoyment?
Yes, by golly, it cartainly is..

As the originals continue to be gobbled up and hidden away by collectors, the availability of shoot able replicas keeps us going..
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by gamekeeper »

Over the years I have bought Winchesters (US made) Rossi and Uberti Leveraction rifles,the only Miroku I had was a semi auto, each one was bought solely because I wanted it for a specific reason at that time and they were available and affordable. They all did what was on the box and that's all that really matters unless you want an investment too.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by piller »

Some things may not be the same hand fit quality they once were, but with the CNC machines things are not too far off. Now, I have been on a public tour of Shilen Barrels during an annual open house. They have craftsmen doing hand fit on the bores after the machining. They have practiced and done the job enough that they can feel a rough tooling spot inside the barrel when hand lapping the barrel. I do not know about any other manufacturer. Shilen has a good reputation for quality.
I have a .270 Remington 700 which I sanded the wood stock and fiberglass bedded the barrel because I got caught in the rain while hunting. The swelled wood screwed up the accuracy. Once I glass bedded it the accuracy came back better than factory new. That just makes me think that some things are not as bad as we might think, and some things may not have been as well built as we remembered them as being.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by JOG »

Made in America lever gun's mean a lot to me! I have older Marlin's JM's and Winchester's. I want to shoot them all. I have had a few Henry's that were just not my cup of tea. I sold them off and bought a 40 year old Marlin 1894. The Marlin are a breeze to break down and clean. I recently pick up a 2006 JM North Haven made 1895 cowboy in 45-70. What a blast to shoot! I have not taken the plunge in Italian or Japanese lever gun's. I'm pretty certain I will not. I kick myself for passing up a 92 Rossi for a good price! I know they need a little fine tuning. My local gun store seems to have lot's of older Marlin's and Winchester's come thru regularly. I enjoy the very good quality of the older American made lever's. Pre 64 Winny's and JM Marlin's. I once took a chance on a Remington made Marlin 1894 in 44 mag. I returned that hunk of Junk after one shooting session! I still keep my eye out for a Rossi in 45 Colt. Until then it's New Haven Winchester's and North Haven Marlin's. Enjoy your weekend gentleman.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by Sixgun »

Go Ubertis!
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by Buck Elliott »

"Made in U.S.A." doesn't always carry the same cachet it once did. Simple Fact.
American Labor Unions are largely responsible for the decline of the WINCHESTER we once knew and b loved, along with Colt, Remington, Marlin, etc..
Large manufacturers found off-shore plans and workers that were more than willing and able to turn out QUALITY copies of things we wanted and we're willing to pay for.
American industry does not have a monopoly on technology, innovation or work ethic.. Unions effectively de-incentives ed much manufacturing progress, supposedly to "save jobs" that were redundant or becoming out-dated. They insisted on clinging to out-model nethods, while decrying the training necessary to transition into more advanced processes..
The whole thing has become a suicidal Joke, but we're not laughing. .

I don't know where your ROLEX was made, and I don't care where my TIME came from, I just know it keeps perfect timd, and has that nice little INDIGLO dial, that let's this blind man read it in the dark.. I don't need more than that.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by Griff »

And Olin actually licensed FN to build several of it's Winchester lineup... Fabrique Nationale, who owns Miroku. My two Miroku rifles, (Browning 1885 & Browning 1886) are superb examples of what that factory produces. The 1886 is as smooth as some originals I've had the pleasure to fondle. the 1885 is sweet, lightweight and fun a little shooter in 45 Colt as my other rifles so chambered.

If I was in the market for a new "Winchester" mdl 94, it'd be the Uberti clone vs. the Miroku travesty.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by Old Savage »

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and viewpoint.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by Griff »

Old Savage wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:25 pmEveryone is entitled to their own opinion and viewpoint.
Aye. And those differences of opinion spur entire industries! I'm glad not everyone like my choices... keeps prices down!
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by piller »

I like the Casio watch that sets itself by the Atomic Clock. OK, so it loses a second every thousand years. I won't live that long and the accuracy is what is important to me. I do not dive, so a Rolex holds no value for me. I don't collect old firearms, and while a 1890 Colt Peacemaker would be really nice, it just holds no collector value to me. I have a 1950s model 94 in 32 WS because I wanted one. Not for collecting. Just to have for hunting and to enjoy shooting it.
If you want something and can afford it, you do not need my permission or approval. That is part of what I like about this forum. Lots of different people with unique personalities and many skills. I do not think I have ever been around such a collection of so much knowledge in so many different areas.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by Old Savage »

Well carbon steel frying pans are my current cooking endeavour ;-) This is a Mauviel from a French company which began in 1830.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by .45colt »

My Old Friend spent 35 years going to gun shows , He had a good job and over the years amassed a large collection of mostly Savage 99's in every caliber and configuration. and Winchester 88's , many 88's new in the box. He told Me He never paid more than $300.00 for any of them. they lined the walls of one bedroom in the house. He was about 78 ten years ago and moved to a condo to make things easier.
At His estate sale the Gun Auction was last and they had tables of the guns laid out for inspection. it was well advertised and around fifty men showed up for the Gun auction from all over. like vultures at a kill. All of them sold, most for a lot of $$$............ He looked like one of His Kids died.
Buy what You want , good , bad , expensive or cheap . enjoy them all you can NOW and be Happy. You can't take them with You. My Friend only lived a few more Years.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by piller »

Good advice.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by HawkCreek »

I buy the Miroku made Winchesters because I believe them to be the superior option available today. Not because of a rollemark but because of quality of materials and work. I've found them to be similar in price to Uberti, maybe with less aftermarket parts but I dont want a race gun to shoot squibs loads with.
Early on I started getting into collecting old Winchesters, then I started to find the new ones were cheaper, just as well made and more accurate. So I sold the few vintage Winchesters (all but one) I'd managed to get and started replacing them with new ones.
I read the stories of rebound hammers causing issues and it worried me but none has ever caused me a single issue. Same with the tang safety, never an issue.
I really and truly dont care where something is produced. I'll buy the better product. I wont pay extra just because something is produced here but I will pay extra for quality.

I cant wait to read the complaints next year when Ruger gets the new Marlin plant up and running. "Its not a Marlin because Ruger changed something"
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by piller »

HawkCreek, I like the way you think.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by Sixgun »

I know where I stand....go BIDEN!
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by Buck Elliott »

I started my journey with Uberti 1873 "winchester" rifles, back in the '80s, even while drawing up the plans for my .454 rifle. I'd always wanted a '73 in .45 Colt, and the Uberti offered the easiest avenue, with quality materials and workmanship. Years before, I had tried the Rossi/Puma '92s, and had been rather disappointed, to say the ldast. They were certainly stout enough, but "real" 92s had spoiled me with their slick actions. I eventually came up with a B-92, and installed my Shilen .454 test barrel, after recurring the breech end to fit, chambered for .45 Colt. I wound up selling it, to help fund the .454 project. A succession of Uberti 73s then funneled through my hands, as I worked on perfecting/optimizing my .45 Colt loads. With encouragement from Duck Casull, and readings in Ackley's works, I pushed the Uberti guns beyond what others deemed possible, echoed in Uberti six guns as well..

Winchesters and Colts, old and new; real and "fake", taught me more than I would have imagined, without blowing up, bending or breaking a c single one..

No one is making the old "originals any more, and greedy collectors are grabbing up the few that are left. As a Shooter, I'm extremely grateful for the Replica and Clone manufacturers, who feed the growing demand for "using" gunsthat hearken back to a bygone era..
There are strong and valid reasons why those genius designs live on, and are still valid choices today..
Don't be a Snob...
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by Griff »

Buck Elliott wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:41 pm I started my journey with Uberti 1873 "winchester" rifles, back in the '80s, even while drawing up the plans for my .454 rifle. I'd always wanted a '73 in .45 Colt, and the Uberti offered the easiest avenue, with quality materials and workmanship. Years before, I had tried the Rossi/Puma '92s, and had been rather disappointed, to say the ldast. They were certainly stout enough, but "real" 92s had spoiled me with their slick actions. I eventually came up with a B-92, and installed my Shilen .454 test barrel, after recurring the breech end to fit, chambered for .45 Colt. I wound up selling it, to help fund the .454 project. A succession of Uberti 73s then funneled through my hands, as I worked on perfecting/optimizing my .45 Colt loads. With encouragement from Duck Casull, and readings in Ackley's works, I pushed the Uberti guns beyond what others deemed possible, echoed in Uberti six guns as well..

Winchesters and Colts, old and new; real and "fake", taught me more than I would have imagined, without blowing up, bending or breaking a c single one..

No one is making the old "originals any more, and greedy collectors are grabbing up the few that are left. As a Shooter, I'm extremely grateful for the Replica and Clone manufacturers, who feed the growing demand for "using" gunsthat hearken back to a bygone era..
There are strong and valid reasons why those genius designs live on, and are still valid choices today..
Don't be a Snob...
Where's that "like" button?
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by .45colt »

Well said Buck....... Griff here is the like button , :) , :D , :lol: :lol: .
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by ollogger »

.45colt wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:36 pm Well said Buck....... Griff here is the like button , :) , :D , :lol: :lol: .
Another one on the like button ollogger
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by 6pt-sika »

Of course do as you see fit ! For myself it’ll be none of the South American or Jap copies . If I want a Winchester it’ll be Pre 64 be it lever or bolt action . If I want anymore Marlins ever again they’ll be Pre Remington . If I want anymore Remington’s are headed my way they’ll most likely be Pre 1995ish . Again to each his own and more power to you in whatever way you wish to go . But for me I’m going the way of what I consider the original/older/collectible stuff .
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by AJMD429 »

‘Clone’ Winchester’s are like Glocks - they work to do the job. Nothing wrong with that, but it is true...nobody ‘collects’ Glocks...or Rossi’s. We ‘collect’ rare hard to find stuff like original Winchesters because there won’t be any more of them, and they were so well made.

I like my ‘collectible’ firearms, but then if I’m going out for a deer in the rain, I’ll have my very-un-collectible, very-non-hand-crafted, very non-blued-steel-and-walnut, Ruger 77/44, and if I have a handgun along in the pouring rain, it will likely be a Glock.

My 375 Winchester and 32-23 S&W will be in the Gun safe, to enjoy on a different day.

Room for both.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by Buck Elliott »

Late this afternoon, I had the great honor and privilege of conversation, over supoer, with revolver-smith John Linebaugh. Talk went from one thing to another, and eventually touched on "today vs yesterday..", as it applies to gun-making, in particular. A point often missed by today's connoisseur is that the "old" Colts and Winchesters (and every other brand) were hand-fitted, BECAUSE THEY HAD TO BE, if they were to work at all...
Early machine tools were a Work and a Wonder, but only relative to what had gone before. Dimensional accuracy and tolerances that we now expect and demand were unheard of until WWI, at least. Both Colt and Winchester had huge facilitues, staffed by hundreds or thousands of workers and craftsmen, whose daily job it was to turn those raw machined "parts" into working firearms. In those days, labor was cheap, while machinery and tooling were expensive. .
When guys my age, back when, started in the machine tool trade, we were given a 2.25" mild steel cube and a double-cut file. Our job was to reduce that cube to a 2"-diameter Shere, spherical within 0.005". Next we had to reduce the steel ball to a smaller cube, within 0.002", across all faces..
That is the approximate dimensional accoracy of pre-WWI Colts and Winchesters.
Nowadays, CNC lathes and 5-axis mills will hold 0.0001" to 0.0002", all day and all week, and will tell the operator when a b worn tool needs to be replaced..
In short, skilled labor has become very expensive, while machinery has become less expensive, and infinitely more accurate and repeatable; doesn't demand Healthcare or pensions, or Christmas parties, or parental leave...

No, when these new guns have been in service for a century or so, they will be better guns than the Old Ones are now, regardless whose name is roll-marked on the barrel, eor whether it was made in Japan or Italy (or maybe even China - like my TTN 1878 12-ga. Double.. Is it a Colt? No, bot it was $400, vs $4000 for a prime Colt coach gu, came with 3" cambers, and will handle 000Buck and 600 gr Brenneke magnum slugs with ease..)

If summa you fellers keep starin' down your noses at us po' folks, and our imported thunder sticks, you'll eventually go ctoss-eyed, and comence to runnin' into things, in broad daylight
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by Buck Elliott »

Late this afternoon, I had the great honor and privilege of conversation, over supoer, with revolver-smith John Linebaugh. Talk went from one thing to another, and eventually touched on "today vs yesterday..", as it applies to gun-making, in particular. A point often missed by today's connoisseur is that the "old" Colts and Winchesters (and every other brand) were hand-fitted, BECAUSE THEY HAD TO BE, if they were to work at all...
Early machine tools were a Work and a Wonder, but only relative to what had gone before. Dimensional accuracy and tolerances that we now expect and demand were unheard of until WWI, at least. Both Colt and Winchester had huge facilitues, staffed by hundreds or thousands of workers and craftsmen, whose daily job it was to turn those raw machined "parts" into working firearms. In those days, labor was cheap, while machinery and tooling were expensive. .
When guys my age, back when, started in the machine tool trade, we were given a 2.25" mild steel cube and a double-cut file. Our job was to reduce that cube to a 2"-diameter Shere, spherical within 0.005". Next we had to reduce the steel ball to a smaller cube, within 0.002", across all faces..
That is the approximate dimensional accoracy of pre-WWI Colts and Winchesters.
Nowadays, CNC lathes and 5-axis mills will hold 0.0001" to 0.0002", all day and all week, and will tell the operator when a b worn tool needs to be replaced..
In short, skilled labor has become very expensive, while machinery has become less expensive, and infinitely more accurate and repeatable; doesn't demand Healthcare or pensions, or Christmas parties, or parental leave...

No, when these new guns have been in service for a century or so, they will be better guns than the Old Ones are now, regardless whose name is roll-marked on the barrel, eor whether it was made in Japan or Italy (or maybe even China - like my TTN 1878 12-ga. Double.. Is it a Colt? No, bot it was $400, vs $4000 for a prime Colt coach gu, came with 3" cambers, and will handle 000Buck and 600 gr Brenneke magnum slugs with ease..)

If summa you fellers keep starin' down your noses at us po' folks, and our imported thunder sticks, you'll eventually go ctoss-eyed, and comence to runnin' into things, in broad daylight
Regards

Buck

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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by Old Savage »

Thank you for the perspective and info.

Well Buck as you have noted, there is a place for it all. I like both.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by wvfarrier »

I guess im in the minority. I LOVE my newer winchesters, definitely over newer marlins or Rossi. The fit and finish is superior to both and is, in my opinion, better than Henry. Dont get me wrong, i really like my henry rifles and if they offered more options would probably stick with them but Miroku makes a dandy rifle.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by OldWin »

First off, I think the repros are great. If you want to shoot the older designs and don't have a boatload of cash, they allow you to enjoy them and it keeps the old guns alive.
If you prefer originals, then be glad there are repros or the they would be even harder to find. Win, win IMO.

As far as the manufacturing today compared to the old hand fit guns, here is my take. I have been a machinist and tool and cutter grinder for 33 years, working in inspection for the last six. We manufacture steam and gas turbines for the power generation industry and of recent, aircraft engine blades.
I have seen this go from jig and fixture to complete single setup 5 axis CNC with probing and CMM measuring. When people tell you these machines can hold tolerances down to .0002 or so (given a temperature controlled environment......you don't hear that part), it is absolutely true. As a matter of fact, the companies that have them love to shout this from the rooftops, and put it in their advertising.
The truth is, this is NOT the reason they bought this equipment. Just because the machine is capable of that accuracy, don't assume it is utilized to that standard.
The single biggest reason is cost, pure and simple.
Reduction of fixturing, setups, and specialization. If a particular machine is capable of turning out a dimensionally perfect 92 receiver in 45 minutes, or one that is "acceptable" in 20, and you can make the operator run 5 of these machines....... ? Well, what do you think?
Spindle load sensors can tell you when a tool needs to be changed, but the amount of acceptable load increase is not decided by the operator. It is all set by programming and bean counters.
Manufacturers don't want machinists anymore. They understand what is going on and can think for themselves. These machines have also allowed companies to hire people with no skill right off the street because they don't really "run" the machines. In some cases, they can't even adjust their feedrates.
There theoretically IS a huge gain in accuracy by utilizing modern machines, tooling, and methods. However, while this is touted, it isn't how it is done. It's a matter of "just as good, twice as fast".
A great example is Marlin. I know the gentleman who used to calibrate their surface plates before the Remington buyout. He said walking in that factory was like going back in time. Old worn out bed mills. Jigs and fixtures stacked to the ceiling. The guns worked and shot fine.
Along comes Remington and moves it to a state of the art facility with modern NC machines and capabilities.
How'd that work out?

Now, I'm not saying that the repro guns aren't any good. Like anything, some will have better quality than others. Generally, the ones you pay more for will be of better quality. That being said, in spite of modern manufacturing capabilities, they are not any better than the fitted guns from a hundred years ago. The workforce in those days HAD to be skilled.

Sorry for all the hot air. :D
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by Rube Burrows »

I have a Miroku 73 Winchester and its a fine shooting well made smooth right out of the box 73. Shoots great and looks great. The quality is much better out of the box than Uberti.

I have a Uberti 73 that out of the box was a little stiff so I had it smoothed up. It works well and looks good.

I have 4 Rossi 92s from various importers. Some older with no safeties and one with a safety. I enjoy them all the but my Hartford Model in .45 Colt is by far my favorite. Its one of my go to lever guns when performing ranch duties and even hunting. It is super accurate and well made.

All in all I am just glad that there are so many options for some of the guns that I grew up wanting at mostly reasonable prices.

They come in all sorts of configurations and quality levels.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by marlinman93 »

I personally prefer vintage rifles, regardless of the maker. So even Miroku made Winchesters don't interest me. But if I bought any "clones" of later manufacture it would be based on fit and finish, not who made them. This is still my basis for buying anything newer, is how well put together it is. If the quality isn't there in looks, I assume what's inside is as bad or worse.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by 1894c »

COSteve -- you started a great thread, enjoyed the comments and opinions... :)
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by Turdyturdy »

I own Winchesters starting with 1905 production to 1961 produced lever actions. I don't believe Winchester ever made a production model equal to the quality of the repo Mirokus. As to the Rossi 92 clone, I have a 92 carbine stainless 454 (marketed by LSI) that has been a real thing. The very first full power factory load caused the removable magazine tube to launch out the front of the gun! The recoil overcame the fine threads at the muzzle end. I use Teflon tape on the threads to hold it in place. After about 20 rounds of reduced power 454 and regular 45 loads the butt stock split length wise. Never got any help from Rossi or LSI on any issues. I stop drilled the crack and injected glue to stop the crack growth. It has held for several years. The best group it has ever shot on a good solid rest is about 8 inches at 50 yds. Yup, not a Rossi fan.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by JB »

Japan (at least post war) has a reputation of building some great quality guns. Brazil is generally thought of a lower quality stuff. Of course that's not always the case either way, but the general preception is there. I've had my share of lower quality South American guns over the years.
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Done

Post by COSteve »

Done
Last edited by COSteve on Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I like all of them.

But I am really impressed with the Japanese guns.

I would not own a Winchester 66 except that the Winchester name was applied to this Japanese gun. I shoot it a lot and I really enjoy it. What's not to like?
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Done

Post by COSteve »

Done
Last edited by COSteve on Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by ollogger »

Nice looking guns Steve!!
I cant knock the the Rossi or the Uberti guns i have or had or any of the old Winchester, Marlin or even a old
1895 Savage, but when it comes to taking out 50 or 100 rounds to burn up i grab a newer gun & go have fun




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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by Buck Elliott »

For the vast majority, who like to shot old-style lever guns, "replicas" are our only viable option.
With so many of the Originals locked away in safes and vaults, there are precious few good examples out on the market. Too many of those are of questionable safety or reliability.
NOBODY MAKES THE "OLD" GUNS ANYMORE...
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Re: 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters' vs 'Winchesters'

Post by .45colt »

Buck , I have to ask if so many people are stuck on "old fashioned quality " why don't more just pony up and get one of the Bighorn Armory ones. ? https://www.bighornarmory.com/.
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