Veteran's Day -- Some things have got waaay better!

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earlmck
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Veteran's Day -- Some things have got waaay better!

Post by earlmck »

Met up with my old pard Butch yesterday to have lunch, a few beers, and generally do Veteran's Day in proper fashion. We picked up our burgers at Bogies, a quite decent Burger place on the east side of Bend. Headed back to his place where our beverages were waiting for our appreciation and as we drove east out of town -- dang if there wasn't a cute young lady swinging a big American flag and waving at us as we went by.

And we had just been discussing the climate we had faced back during our time as we worked our way toward becoming "veterans" -- those days in the late 60's. A lot of that stuff from 50+ years ago is fuzzy in my brain but one clear picture remaining is the day I stepped off the airplane in LAX, in my fresh dress-whites (first time I'd worn 'em in over a year) on my way to Long Beach Naval Station to get discharged.

We were met by a crowd of cute young women (oh man -- first round-eyes I'd been close to in a looong time!) and they had a cheer-leader cheer for us

"Hey you, what do you say?
How many babies
Did you kill today?"


And to accompany the cheer they flung a little red ink on us. Dang it -- I wish I'd kept those red-spattered pants as a souvenir but I tossed 'em.

Now isn't today's flag waving and "thank you for your service!" a huge improvement?

I'm disappointed in our country sometimes but at least our treatment of our folks in the military has done a colossal shift for the better.
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Re: Veteran's Day -- Some things have got waaay better!

Post by Ray Newman »

Earl: as a background I enlisted in USMC 6/64 for 4 years, landed in Okinawa 2/65, served in RVN with Echo battery, 12 Marines, 7/65-3/67. Retired on disability 2/29/68.

In my opinion it is phony for about 90-95% of them. In other words, it’s the current thing to do, so let’s do it.

I know some anti-war/anti-Vietnam War veterans protesters who are “revisionist historians”. They now claim that they were: (a) not against the war or returning veterans, or (b) against the war, but not against the returning veterans. Sure is a far cry from what I remember back in ’67-68 and as a patient at the now defunct Oak Knoll Navy Hospital, Oakland CA and when I was in college.

Being a bilateral above the knee amputee using a wheelchair, I seem to attract such people. Most of the time I just try to ignore them. If a guy is about my age, I sometimes ask “what were you doing back in the 60’s?” I get nothing but dirty looks, some profanity, or some BS excuse as to why they did not serve. Right now the favorite excuse is “I promised my mother I wouldn’t go to war.” And I have yet to hear one say that their children or grandchildren served or are now serving --this doesn’t surprise me at all considering only about 2% of the population are in uniform.

A relative who told me that in ’69 or ‘70 he volunteered for the draft, but the Army would not take him. HUH?? WTF?? Asked him why he didn’t just enlist? Told him the USMC would have taken him, especially since he had no physical problems and was a high school graduate. Same with the USN or USAF. Never got an answer. His two sisters and his father (a WW II US Army Air Corps vet and Distinguished Flying Cross recipient) told me that he was scared sheet less of being drafted. But, as you say, he was a flag waver and thank you guy.

Yes, I have been asked some very stupid questions too.

I have talked to several other Vietnam and current war vets at the VA when I am there for treatment, and about 9 out of 10 feel the same way. Know a guy who is a PTSD counselor at the VA and he claims that his patients would agree with me.

Reminds me of a few Fellow Shooters I know who are very vocally against the NFL, football and basketball players kneeling when the anthem is played. But they still watch the games on TV, buy the jerseys and the jackets, etc.,….

As an aside, I laughed when you mentioned "round eyes". Haven't heard that expression in years!
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Re: Veteran's Day -- Some things have got waaay better!

Post by TraderVic »

Round eyes, yeah......haven't heard that in some time now, probably would get get slapped in jail for saying that in today's "snowflake climate & culture"

Reflecting back, I was walking through Twin Cities International Airport in my dress whites to catch a connector flight to my home in WI. I had just gotten back from my second tour over there and a gal walks up a calls me a baby killer.

I agree about ignoring the "canned" acknowledgements about our service, when so many have no idea or were too busy to serve themselves.
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Re: Veteran's Day -- Some things have got waaay better!

Post by Ray Newman »

"So, today when someone says, 'Thank you for your service.' I'm really uncomfortable with it. It still feels like some kind of underhanded slam. I know, I know. They are trying to give support. But I can't shake the original feeling of betrayal and hate for what I was forced, not volunteered, to do."
--CO Steve

Betrayal: Bingo!, the perfect feeling and description of what went on -- those that were demonstrating, starting fires and destroying buildings, etc., were aiding and abetting the enemy and prolonged the war.
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are just about done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
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Re: Veteran's Day -- Some things have got waaay better!

Post by Griff »

Ray Newman wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:45 pmBetrayal: Bingo!, the perfect feeling and description of what went on -- those that were demonstrating, starting fires and destroying buildings, etc., were aiding and abetting the enemy and prolonged the war.
Exactly!
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Re: Veteran's Day -- Some things have got waaay better!

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Good to know. I will never, ever again thank a veteran for his or her service, even if I mean it.
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Re: Veteran's Day -- Some things have got waaay better!

Post by earlmck »

Ouch! Looks like most of us old vets are not a forgiving bunch. I don't wear a "Nam-Vet" or "USN" hat unless I'm going to a vet meeting so I don't get "thanked" very often.
'Bout the only time I might is when I ask for my vet discount at Lowe's and then I can just respond that "it looks like you just did!". Or if it is somebody with some wrinkles I might respond with "and thank you for your support". I figured the "thank you" thing was an honest rebound by American society as kind of a "make-up" for that period of bad treatment. Back then it wasn't "PC" to be a vet and nowdays it is "PC". Or at least it is not "not PC".

I still won't watch a movie with Jane Fonda in it though.
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Re: Veteran's Day -- Some things have got waaay better!

Post by TraderVic »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:44 pm Good to know. I will never, ever again thank a veteran for his or her service, even if I mean it.
Bill, I don't believe any of the vented frustrations or old, hard feelings were directed at you. Because of this thread, my mind has dusted off a few things I've not thought about for a long time.
While here stateside, our military short haircuts labeled us everywhere we were, at or around our bases (for me it was the 32nd St Naval Station in San Diego). Back home on leave for sure as most everyone else sported more hair on top than any of us did......and often enough it drew stares/glares at a minimum. Trying to strike up a conversation with a gal in a tavern, or anywhere for that matter was difficult, or worse.
We were pretty much treated like second class citizens.
One awful memory I have is when my destroyer tied up in San Diego on our return from overseas, a Navy band, families, balloons, signs, cheers and so on - the first people to cross the brow onto the quarter deck were lawyers serving papers.
The looks I witnessed on the faces of my fellow crew were something I'll never forget.
My best friend in the fleet was/is from Ventura, CA. We still stay in touch, might even meet up for a visit in person in Colorado or someplace.....been a long time.

Sorry, I've rambled too much....should delete this.
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Re: Veteran's Day -- Some things have got waaay better!

Post by M. M. Wright »

My service number starts with US. I remember my high school buddies giving themselves asthma attacks or getting married or doing whatever they could to avoid the draft and I just had another anniversary of my induction date; 8 November, 1961. Still I have some regret that I stayed stateside. Not my decision, just what the US Army decided to do with me. No one has greater respect or admiration than I for those of you who were put in harms way. I went to a signal school with a group of guys who had just come from SE Asia in 1962.
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Re: Veteran's Day -- Some things have got waaay better!

Post by jeepnik »

Steve you just brought back something I would rather forget. I enlisted in a delayed enlistment program while in my senior year of high school. I only told a couple of folks but it didn't take long for the word to get around. I pretty much became an outcast. I have very few friends from high school, most of them also served but were smart enough to wait until after graduation.

In May of '72 I was catching a flight to LAX from SFO after returning to Travis AFB. Not in uniform, but trouble came anyway. A couple of peace loving souls decided to take my wallet while I was standing at a urinal. One went to the hospital, the other ran off. Guess who got arrested. San Francisco cops were not a friend of the military on any level.
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Re: Veteran's Day -- Some things have got waaay better!

Post by Griff »

Steve, I understand EXACTLY what you're saying. I have a few things I don't share also... In a particularly bad mood one day I had a lady, about my age, thank me for my service... and I rudely retorted, "...where were you in 1972?" Shouldn't have done that.
Bill in Oregon wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:44 pmGood to know. I will never, ever again thank a veteran for his or her service, even if I mean it.
Bill, don't feel like it isn't appreciated... but sometimes the tone of voice will come off as insincere. It's those times that will grate for some of us that suffered thru that period in our history. Bill, it was 1993/4 before someone outside my family made me, specifically as a VN veteran, feel welcome to be back in the USA. It was in church, and probably the most emotional experience I'd had to that date. The next was being able to thank returning vets from the War on Terror. Those two experiences did more to help me overcome (to the extent that I have), the stigma I felt for being a VN Vet. That stigma wasn't self imposed... it was placed on me by the American public painting us all with a very broad brush. I don't know how many "thank you's" it will take to wash it away completely... So please don't stop.
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Re: Veteran's Day -- Some things have got waaay better!

Post by earlmck »

I thought that wound was healed, but it was just scabbed over.
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Re: Veteran's Day -- Some things have got waaay better!

Post by piller »

Men, you stepped up when your Country called you. There were too many who ran away. Chip Carter still comes to mind. You showed that you have honor and decency. You might not yet, maybe not ever be ready to forgive the people who hurt you and treated you like dirt for your having honor, but holding on to the pain does not help you and it does not much bother those who should be ashamed of themselves. Please let the pain go. I am not asking you to forgive, just to release the pain.
I turned 18 in 1983, so you can tell that I couldn't have been there or done that. In 1973 I barely understood that Vietnam existed.
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Re: Veteran's Day -- Some things have got waaay better!

Post by fatboy »

I plan to live long enuff to stand and urinate on Jane Fondas grave.
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Re: Veteran's Day -- Some things have got waaay better!

Post by TraderVic »

Now there's a thought for the day !
I'll add some tootsie rolls from the cat box too.
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Re: Veteran's Day -- Some things have got waaay better!

Post by Ray Newman »

"I plan to live long enuff to stand and urinate on Jane Fondas grave.
bob"

Not me. When I retired out, I made myself a promise to never stand in line again -- the line to her grave will be way too long....
Last edited by Ray Newman on Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are just about done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
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Re: Veteran's Day -- Some things have got waaay better!

Post by Griff »

Ray Newman wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:24 pm"I plan to live long enuff to stand and urinate on Jane Fondas grave.
bob"
Not me. When I retired out, I made myself a promise to never stand in line again -- the line to here grave will be way too long....
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Veteran's Day -- Some things have got waaay better!

Post by piller »

I can understand that. Maybe her grave will stay wet for months.
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Re: Veteran's Day -- Some things have got waaay better!

Post by earlmck »

Griff wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:58 pm
Ray Newman wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:24 pm"I plan to live long enuff to stand and urinate on Jane Fondas grave.
bob"
Not me. When I retired out, I made myself a promise to never stand in line again -- the line to here grave will be way too long....
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I'll second that Griff. Good 'un Ray!
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