357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

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mickbr
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357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by mickbr »

Fellas in lever actions, would you say the 357 mag commands more of the market than the 44's. Or how do you have it?
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by fordwannabe »

All I can use as reference is my safes, 2 357, 2 44, 1 44-40, 2 38-40.
a Pennsylvanian who has been accused of clinging to my religion and my guns......Good assessment skills.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by magyars »

In the circles I run in....it's pretty close to even, 357 and 44 mag
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by COSteve »

Of the 3 calibers you mention, if you look at sales you'll see that the .357mag outsells the .44mag with the 44-40 a very distant 3rd. However, I'm betting that if you add in existing leverguns, the 30-30 may just rocket up to the top.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by mickbr »

Yes Id say there would be no competition if the 30-30 was included, hence I kept it as these 3 pistol cartridges only :)
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by buckeyeshooter »

My safe, 0 357's, 2 44 mags and 2 44-40's.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by JimT »

I started out with the .44-40 when I was a young teenager. These days of the 3 we just have .357 and .44 Magnum.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I have one .357, one .44 mag, and two .45 Colt.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by M. M. Wright »

357, zero, 44-40 four.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by jeepnik »

Other than .22 lr, none of the leverguns I have are chambered for pistol rounds. I would buy one in .45 acp but for some reason no one has made any. And don't tell me it's because it's a rimless cartridge. I can't be impossible to design a levergun with headspacing on the case mouth, and an appropriate extractor.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by 44shooter »

I have one 44 magnum and one 45 Colt. I would love to have a 357 too since I have 357 and 38 handguns
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by GunnyMack »

41 mag , best of both worlds, more bullet weight than 357 and flatter trajectory than 44 .
Just my 2 cents...
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by COSteve »

GunnyMack wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:45 am
41 mag , best of both worlds, more bullet weight than 357 and flatter trajectory than 44 .
Just my 2 cents...
I've often thought of a 41mag as a great hog getter too. My only concern is the fact that many don't reload and 41mag ammo is not that readily available.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by GunnyMack »

I need a 357 lever to match up with my model 66.
I have a Blackhawk 41 that goes well with my Henry 41
My 629 and Ruger carbine get along well together
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by black river smith »

I am going to address your question directly, as asked.
Per 'todays market' and therefore 'CAS/SASS shooting'(the main reason for the market), I believe that the 357 is the most used and purchased caliber for rifles, that are matched to corresponding revolver. This is because of it lighter bullet weights and less recoil. This answer is based off of pure competition experience and exposure. Also, reading the other wires, too.

If you had asked about historical interests then I believe that the 44/40 would lead. There are still enough Uberti rifles being produced in this caliber to satisfy, that market.
But I do not believe it is greater than the demand for the smaller caliber of 357.

I like the history of firearms and prefer to simulate the appearance of the Old West when shooting CAS therefore you can figure what I use. But, I still would like a 357 rifle for the cost of reloading and fun. I also still need a 38/40 for fun, too.

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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by earlmck »

My accumulation seems to include one of each plus 45 Colt/454 Casull. Will ad a 327 Federal when somebody makes one in rifle configuration.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by 4t5 »

Earl, Henry makes 'em in 16 and 20"
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by JOG »

Here in southern Maine people want the 44 mag. I have two pre safety Marlin's 1894's,one in 44 mag the other in 357. I would love to find a Winchester or Marlin in 44-40. I don't think I've seen one in a least 10 year's.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by FWiedner »

.

I rarely see a .357 on the shelf at the LGS, where I often see several .44's.

I don't know if that means .357s sell so fast they're hard to find. or that they sell more .44's so they order more.

I own an 1894C in .357, and have no real use for a .44.

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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by COSteve »

I looked on Rossi Rifleman's website and they have a poll of member's R92 levergun's calibers. Their numbers may be representative of the general population as far as the pistol calibers go. They show that the .357 Mag is far and away the most popular with close to ½ the total votes.

Next, the .45 Colt barely edging out the .44 Mag for second place and the .44-40 a distant 5th behind even the .454 Casull with more than 3 times the numbers than the .44-40. Of 874 votes cast so far, the breakdown is as follows:

.357 Mag: 410, 47%
.45 Colt: 184, 21%
.44 Mag: 176, 21%
.454 Casull: 71, 8%
.44-40: 22, 3%
.480 Ruger: 11, 1%

I guess I'm 'typical' as my 4 pistol caliber leverguns consist of 2ea .357 Mag and 2ea .45 Colt.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by mickbr »

Nice data. the first few on the list are as I pretty much imagined. I am a bit suprised the 44-40 was not slightly more represented. 71 owners of the 454 casull is eye opening, must be a decent % of entire 454 production numbers.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by hfcable »

mickbr wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:16 am
Nice data. the first few on the list are as I pretty much imagined. I am a bit suprised the 44-40 was not slightly more represented. 71 owners of the 454 casull is eye opening, must be a decent % of entire 454 production numbers.
and the 11 owners of 480s represent 11% of the total production [ I have two of those, myself. a blue one and a stainless ]
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by Griff »

In the circle of folks I shoot with, the .357 outnumbers the balance by a factor of more than 3 to 1. Maybe 4 to 1! In my safe however... 2 .38/357s and .45 Colt leverguns. And in about 120 days it should be 6 45 Colt leverguns!
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by Griff »

Griff wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:22 pm
In the circle of folks I shoot with, the .357 outnumbers the balance by a factor of more than 3 to 1. Maybe 4 to 1! In my safe however... 2 .38/357s and 5 .45 Colt leverguns. And in about 120 days it should be 6 45 Colt leverguns!
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by Fisher-Price »

Zero for 2 on 357’s, want one bad.
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44-40 still need one of those
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by JB »

COSteve wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:18 am
Of the 3 calibers you mention, if you look at sales you'll see that the .357mag outsells the .44mag with the 44-40 a very distant 3rd.
I agree. Most folks are commenting what they like or own vs the original question. I prefer the 44 mag, but the 357 mag leads in the market in sales.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by piller »

0, 0, and 0.
There are .327 Federal, and .480 in pistol calibers in my safe. My .44 Magnum carbine is a gas operated tube fed 4+1 Ruger. Matches my Ruger .44 Magnum SBH.
I am wanting a .357 Magnum levergun, and a .45 Colt levergun.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by ollogger »

I do not have a 44 mag, but do have 357 - 45 & 44-40 in lever guns
in the past a lot more in a short cartridge



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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by Larkbill »

At our pistol cartridge silhouette matches .38/.357 is by far the most popular. I have plans to exchange my .45 Colt for one eventually.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by COSteve »

I totally understand why the .357 Mag leads the pack. Compared to the .45 Colt and .44 Mag it has cheaper ammo, lighter recoil and cheaper to reload.

In addition, with bullet weights including 96grn, 105grn, 125grn, 130grn, 140grn, 148grn, 150grn, 158grn, 170grn, 180grn, 200grn, 220grn, 230grn in various bullet types that I've found on the web for sale, plus both plinking, medium and magnum powders to choose from the .357 Mag is a very versatile caliber in a levergun.

No, it isn't suitable for everything and no, it won't bring down an elephant but for your average Joe shooter it's a good choice and for us handloaders the possibilities are almost endless!!
Last edited by COSteve on Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by hfcable »

quote: " no, it won't bring down an elephant "

well, dang ! there go my plans for a safari !

that's it.... not going now.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by Alan Wood »

The other advantage of 357 over 44 magnum is how much a box of 50 44 magnums tenderize the shooters shoulder! Between that and 44 mags cost I wish I have gone for a 357 instead of the 44 magnum.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by piller »

I don't care that a .357 is not an elephant caliber. There aren't any elephants in the wild around here.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by rossim92 »

i have one in 44-40, .357 mag, .22lr, and the dirty-30
Rossi 92 .357 lever
Henry .22 lever and a remington speedmaster 500 .22 lr
Marlin glenfield .22 boltaction
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by Bryan Austin »

The .44 may be a pistol caliber BUT the 44-40 is a rifle cartridge that is typically used in revolvers. Stop confusing the difference.

The 44-40 loaded properly for use in rifles will outperform any of those pistol cartridges at 200 yards.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by Bryan Austin »

There are so many variations and loads, I decided to just stick with the powders.

For details, I have much information and photos on google docs here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...c ... 1905899731

For extreme details, visit the 44-40 website: https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester but for this topic, I wanted to just post about the powders Winchester used for this cartridge.

I did mix in a few UMC/REM-UMC variations for comparison.

Basically Winchester seems to stick with only a few powders for the 44-40 over the duration of it's lifespan. Obviously starting with black powder and basically using a mixture of FF and FFF I have often herd referred to as a "Sporting" black powder. But for the most part, just ole black powder loads compressed on average .17" to .21" pending cases used.

After dissecting and studying some 28 cartridges of different years, I found the following;

Dates are for reference only
1. 1873-1946 - Black Powder, no details needed, lead bullets, 1,325fps
2. 1894-1924 - Dupont No. 2, used in normal loads...JSP and Full Patch, 1,325fps
3. 1903-1941 - Sharpshooter used in High Velocity loads, JSP and FP, 1,500fps to 1,565fps (M-92 rifles only)
4. 1924-1950's - Sharpshooter used in standard JSP loads, 1,310fps

performance drop

5. 1962-1964 - Flattened Ball powder, JSP, 1,310fps
6. 1964-1976 - Ball Powder, JSP, 1,310fps

Performance drop

7. 1976-today - Disc powder, JSP, 1.190fps (some people call it flake powder like Unique)

Powder charges varied greatly and were not consistent. Dupont No. 2 charges varied from 15gr to 17gr. Sharpshooter loads remained in the 16gr charge while the HV loads varied with years from as high as 20.3gr (early loads) to as low as 13.9gr (late loads). One 1946 load showed a light charge of a perforated disc powder like Sharpshooter but was only 11.3gr with the discs looking a tad thinner than Sharpshooter.

12gr to 12.5gr is what I found with the ball powder charges and by mid 1976, 7.5gr to 8gr of disc (flake) powder similar in looks to Unique.

The more this cartridge was transitioned from rifle use to revolver use, the performance plummeted. Even in 1937, it was urged to load this cartridge different when used in rifle vs revolver.



I prefer Unique for my revolvers but I have discovered that for rifle use, Mid-Range rifle powders like Reloder 7 work extremely well in the Winchester 73' giving me 1,325fps @ only 12,000psi with less than 4" 40 shot groups at 100 yards. 200 yard ten shot group yielded 7 1/2" group.
8gr Tanish flake.jpg
12.1gr Flattened Ball Powder.jpg
20.3gr Sharpshooter.jpg
16.8grDupontNo2.jpg
40gr Black Powder.jpg
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by Nate Kiowa Jones »

COSteve wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:09 am
I looked on Rossi Rifleman's website and they have a poll of member's R92 levergun's calibers. Their numbers may be representative of the general population as far as the pistol calibers go. They show that the .357 Mag is far and away the most popular with close to ½ the total votes.

Next, the .45 Colt barely edging out the .44 Mag for second place and the .44-40 a distant 5th behind even the .454 Casull with more than 3 times the numbers than the .44-40. Of 874 votes cast so far, the breakdown is as follows:

.357 Mag: 410, 47%
.45 Colt: 184, 21%
.44 Mag: 176, 21%
.454 Casull: 71, 8%
.44-40: 22, 3%
.480 Ruger: 11, 1%

I guess I'm 'typical' as my 4 pistol caliber leverguns consist of 2ea .357 Mag and 2ea .45 Colt.

As some of you know I sell these guns. I agree with the poll, I sell more of the 357's than all the others combined. As for the 44-40 in a Rossi it has lost it following. I have two stainless 20" new in the box that I've had for sometimes now. They just don't sell as well and Rossi no longer offers them either.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by mickbr »

COSteve wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:32 pm
I totally understand why the .357 Mag leads the pack. Compared to the .45 Colt and .44 Mag it has cheaper ammo, lighter recoil and cheaper to reload.

In addition, with bullet weights including 96grn, 105grn, 125grn, 130grn, 140grn, 148grn, 150grn, 158grn, 170grn, 180grn, 200grn, 220grn, 230grn in various bullet types that I've found on the web for sale, plus both plinking, medium and magnum powders to choose from the .357 Mag is a very versatile caliber in a levergun.

No, it isn't suitable for everything and no, it won't bring down an elephant but for your average Joe shooter it's a good choice and for us handloaders the possibilities are almost endless!!
Agree 100% COsteve. One load level I enjoy though it doesnt get a lot of airplay is running 38 specials in a lever to about 9mm carbine power. Only a couple grains more than a 38+P loading and with the longer barrel and no gas escaping its quiter than the 9mm. Its actually not a bad killer on small medium game either.
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by COSteve »

mickbr wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:13 am
One load level I enjoy though it doesn't get a lot of airplay is running 38 specials in a lever to about 9mm carbine power. Only a couple grains more than a 38+P loading and with the longer barrel and no gas escaping its quieter than the 9mm. Its actually not a bad killer on small medium game either.
I tried some 'mouse fart' level 125grn loads a friend worked up for his pistol in my rifle once and they couldn't make it to 100yds. Yep, aiming at a target about 5 ft off the ground at 100yds the bullets would impact the ground at about 80 yds. :D

You could barely hear them with muffs on. Truly as quiet as a mouse fart. :lol:
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Re: 357 vs 44 mag vs 44-40 popularity in lever guns

Post by mickbr »

COSteve wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:11 pm

I tried some 'mouse fart' level 125grn loads a friend worked up for his pistol in my rifle once and they couldn't make it to 100yds. Yep, aiming at a target about 5 ft off the ground at 100yds the bullets would impact the ground at about 80 yds. :D
:lol:
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