Bronze Age smelting, anyone?

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Bill in Oregon
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Bronze Age smelting, anyone?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

This has been on my list for a long time. I have the tin and copper at hand, so no excuses, except that I haven't tied building the twin bellows yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsF7O6G92Bs
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gamekeeper
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Re: Bronze Age smelting, anyone?

Post by gamekeeper »

Clever folks those Vikings, fascinating to see it done that way.... 8)
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Re: Bronze Age smelting, anyone?

Post by 3leggedturtle »

Wouldnt the tin burn off at the melting temp of copper? Always thought bronze was an alloy of copper and nickel. Guess I'll look it up later. Excuses? You are just waiting for the right time and temperature! Yeah thats it.... What tool you thinking of making?
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Mike Armstrong
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Re: Bronze Age smelting, anyone?

Post by Mike Armstrong »

Copper+tin=bronze. Tin was the reason "civilized" folks from the Mediterranean started coming to the British Isles. They had plenty of copper but tin was mostly found in a few places farther north, like Cornwall. Early in the Bronze Age other metallic elements were also tried as alloys with copper, but the tin-copper alloy cast better and was less brittle than those earlier "tries."

One interesting thing I recently learned is that Amerindian cultures in Mexico and Peru were just entering the Bronze Age when the Spanish showed up with Toledo steel. A few years before Cortez invaded Mexico, one of the enemies of the Aztecs had invented bronze weapons and with them massacred a large Aztec army, the first time that had happened to the Aztec Empire. Those same bronze-wielding folks became part the anti-Aztec coalition that the Spanish led to destroy the Aztecs. End of Stone Age civilizations.
Bill in Oregon
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Re: Bronze Age smelting, anyone?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Todd, the tin and copper together are much harder than either metal by itself. Be fun to make something simple, such as an axe head.
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Re: Bronze Age smelting, anyone?

Post by piller »

I don't haddock any place to try it. If you carp to try it, I hope you have fun. Bronze smelting was be-grunion a long time ago. Hope you have a tuna fun with it. I better stop trying to amberjack this thread and throw red herring into it.
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Grizz
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Re: Bronze Age smelting, anyone?

Post by Grizz »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:53 pm This has been on my list for a long time. I have the tin and copper at hand, so no excuses, except that I haven't tied building the twin bellows yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsF7O6G92Bs
been on my list for a long time also... I am more interested in the sand casting part of it than alloying the metals... if you can get hold of old boat propellors, some of them are made of the BEST bronze available, coveted by sculptors... yeah, and an "electric bellows" :D definately on the list, bronze oarlocks for one, and other boat fittings...

bronze was the plastic of its days
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Re: Bronze Age smelting, anyone?

Post by piller »

An old hair dryer with 2 or 3 speeds and some pipe with venturi holes drilled in it plus another solid pipe of larger diameter to slide over it for air flow control would work for an electric bellows.
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Grizz
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Re: Bronze Age smelting, anyone?

Post by Grizz »

piller wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:31 am An old hair dryer with 2 or 3 speeds and some pipe with venturi holes drilled in it plus another solid pipe of larger diameter to slide over it for air flow control would work for an electric bellows.
I have a forge that is like that. I also have a big blacksmith hand crank blower that I can mechanize if no slaves, er, interns show up...
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Re: Bronze Age smelting, anyone?

Post by piller »

The idea with the hair dryer is simply a slightly modern take on a rather old idea.
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Re: Bronze Age smelting, anyone?

Post by Mike Armstrong »

I just remembered that arsenic was one of the early chemicals used to make a copper alloy: arsenobronze. How this was done, I have no idea, but it didn't catch on. Perhaps they kept losing smiths? There is also an alloy called "phosphorbronze," but I'm not sure if that's modern or antique.

The big technology jump to iron required recognizing iron in it ore state, and then smelting it out. Copper occurs in a metallic form in nature, so you can just forge copper artifacts directly from nuggets, as was happening in the Great Lakes region long before Europeans arrived: "nugget plus hammer equals pretty bauble or scary blade." I assume that natives in Mexico and South America used the same technique at first for gold, silver, and copper. Then they learned how to melt and cast that nugget into some pretty amazing art! Weapons, not so much--they stuck with obsidian and flint-- until they encountered Toledo steel.
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Re: Bronze Age smelting, anyone?

Post by rossim92 »

piller wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:04 am I don't haddock any place to try it. If you carp to try it, I hope you have fun. Bronze smelting was be-grunion a long time ago. Hope you have a tuna fun with it. I better stop trying to amberjack this thread and throw red herring into it.
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Re: Bronze Age smelting, anyone?

Post by Larkbill »

I also collect old outboard motors and prior to stainless bronze was the metal of choice for high performance propellers. I have several.
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: Bronze Age smelting, anyone?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Where is Blaine when we need him to respond to our friend Piller? :lol:
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Re: Bronze Age smelting, anyone?

Post by octagon »

I have a cool very old copper chisel, maybe Great Lakes or Mexican or Peruvian, not sure. It's about 6 "long and 1/2 " wide. Had a long copper needle and awl of similar vintage I gave to my daughter, a costume designer.
The chisel would still cut if properly hafted, it's in fantastic condition, and the oldest in my collection. Cool thread Bill
Bill in Oregon
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Re: Bronze Age smelting, anyone?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Octagon, copper by itself certainly has its own allure. I hammered/forged this out not so much to be a chisel as to be a blade for an ax like the one that Ötzi had with him when he was murdered in the Alps in the Bronze Age. Copper just has loads of character.
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Re: Bronze Age smelting, anyone?

Post by piller »

Bill, Oetzi died a long time ago. I doubt that Hillary had anything to do with his death.
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Re: Bronze Age smelting, anyone?

Post by Jay Bird »

piller wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:00 am Bill, Oetzi died a long time ago. I doubt that Hillary had anything to do with his death.
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Re: Bronze Age smelting, anyone?

Post by octagon »

Bill that axe is cool, I've been studying the ice man for years.
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