1858 New Army bummer

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LeverLuvr
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1858 New Army bummer

Post by LeverLuvr »

So years ago, I bought a Traditions Pietta 1858 New Army .44. I bought the Confederate brass frame version because I wanted to mainly display it on the wall with my Henry Big Boy 44 mag which also had the brass receiver. The two looked nice together, like peanut butter and jelly. When I first got it, I took it out and fired 5 rounds out of it ( my first cap and ball gun), and it was great. I found it to be a pain in the butt to load and clean afterwards though, mainly just messier than I was used to with all the residue and boar butter, so I gave it a good clean and lube, and just displayed it after that. I just happen to run across some info on cylinder conversions, and thought this would be great. I could convert it to shoot modern cartridges as it was fun to shoot. Then the bomb, NOT TO BE USED IN BRASS FRAME GUNS ! They cant handle the higher pressures from modern ammo :x. I briefly wondered if it could handle a lighter load, but then common sense slapped me upside the head and said "um, no, stuck bullets, and as a rule, if a gun can't handle the heaviest load that will go in it easily, I don't shoot it". Now I'm bummed. I guess I could always buy a steel framed version. I was born a Yankee after all. Trying to justify a logical reason to buy another gun. This logic works for me :mrgreen:
My other wife is a Les Paul Custom
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From my cold, dead, gun powder residue ridden hands.
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jeepnik
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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

Post by jeepnik »

I don't understand the cleaning difficulty. I just pull off the grips, take it down as normal for cleaning then stick it in a dishwasher. After the dry cycle I lube it up and I'm done.
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gamekeeper
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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

Post by gamekeeper »

Give the old fashioned Cap n Ball another go, I had a lot of fun with mine .... :wink:
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LeverLuvr
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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

Post by LeverLuvr »

jeepnik wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:08 pm I don't understand the cleaning difficulty. I just pull off the grips, take it down as normal for cleaning then stick it in a dishwasher. After the dry cycle I lube it up and I'm done.
:lol: You must be either single, or your partner is a keeper. My wife would feed me bread and water for a month if I ran a gun in the dishwasher.
gamekeeper wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:24 pm Give the old fashioned Cap n Ball another go, I had a lot of fun with mine .... :wink:
I should. If I've learned anything in life it's that the more you do something, the easier it gets. It was my first time shooting cap and ball back then. Seemed like a lot of work for 5 shots. Of course, never having done it before I was also extra cautious so I didn't kill myself. I am fortunate enough to have a shooting buddy that is very familiar with cap and ball shooting that walked me thru the process and pointed out additional safe practices. We were at an outdoor range about a month prior and a guy 2 stalls down from me was shooting a cap and ball pistol. I had been chatting a bit with him and admiring his pistol. An old navy if memory serves. About 20 minutes later I heard a big boom and saw a couple of pieces of gun falling to the ground. His gun blew up. My buddy told me it blew up because one of the other chambers in the cylinder lit off too. When we later went to shoot my new pistol my buddy showed me how to load everything and when we were loaded, he gave me some stuff he called bore butter and told me to put in the end of the cylinders. I asked what that was for and he said remember the gun that blew up last month, that was because a spark somehow lit off the chamber next to it. The bore butter is suppose to keep that from happening. I've watched several videos of shooters shooting without it. Is the bore butter just an extra safety measure or a necessity that many just ignore? I do understand the concept.
My other wife is a Les Paul Custom
God, Guns, Guitars, and Peanut Butter Pie..... Oh, and I guess the wife.
From my cold, dead, gun powder residue ridden hands.
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jeepnik
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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

Post by jeepnik »

Mine too. But when I remodeled the kitchen I took the old one and hooked it up in the garage just for stuff like this. Works really good for cleaning tools too.
Jeepnik AKA "Old Eyes"
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LeverLuvr
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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

Post by LeverLuvr »

Well now that makes sense. Never thought of that. As for my tools, I only work on old Chevys anymore so they stay pretty clean :mrgreen:
My other wife is a Les Paul Custom
God, Guns, Guitars, and Peanut Butter Pie..... Oh, and I guess the wife.
From my cold, dead, gun powder residue ridden hands.
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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

Post by AJMD429 »

Shooting a cap and ball revolver versus a cartridge gun is kind of like walking versus driving. It takes longer but you will find that the slower pace gives you time to observe more, learn more, and enjoy the process more. You may find yourself RELAXING more than usual. 'Shooting' isn't just the part where lead goes downrange, any more than 'hunting' is just the part where you kill the game; it is a process, each part with something to savor, learn from, or enjoy. The cap and ball revolver sort of forces the issue, to be siren but pretty soon you will probably find the 'loading process' relaxing, rather than just an interruption.

Some of this may take a geezer to fully appreciate.... :D
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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

Post by fordwannabe »

As for the bore butter or grease or crisco all have the same use. If a spark travels from one cylinder to the next and is hot enough to melt it’s way in the powder of the other chamber KABOOM as you saw. I know lots of people don’t use it( I know of lots of people who use heroin too.) I was taught to use the grease Actually back then everybody I knew used crisco shortening. In my opinion why take the chance? Sure is messy though. I don’t know if they are still available but at one time they madewonder wads, a bore butter coated pad that went between powder and ball to do pretty much the same job as the grease but WAAAAy cleaner err less messy.
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Ray
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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

Post by M. M. Wright »

+1 to Ray's suggestion to use Ballistol mixed with water (10:1) for cleaning. After 3 or 4 times you will notice it gets easier to clean. The metal gets "seasoned" with the Ballistol. I started shooting C & B in '52? Yeah, we used lard to lube with. You need the lube to lube the barrel and help prevent leading along with preventing chain fires. I shot a 58 Remington back then. A real one as there were no Italian clones back then.
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33wcfshooter
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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

Post by 33wcfshooter »

Kirst makes a 22lr conversion that's ok to use in the brass frames. There really neat uses a short barrel that slips inside the pistols 44 barrel and is actually pretty accurate at normal pistol ranges. Only downside is there kinda expensive but I put one in a brass framed bison 58 and it works great and gets a lot more use now. Kirstkonverter.com
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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

Post by RJS »

Just to mention to make sure your caps fit well on the nipples. That will help prevent chain fires also.
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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

Post by LeverLuvr »

AJMD429 wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:34 pm Shooting a cap and ball revolver versus a cartridge gun is kind of like walking versus driving. It takes longer but you will find that the slower pace gives you time to observe more, learn more, and enjoy the process more. You may find yourself RELAXING more than usual. 'Shooting' isn't just the part where lead goes downrange, any more than 'hunting' is just the part where you kill the game; it is a process, each part with something to savor, learn from, or enjoy. The cap and ball revolver sort of forces the issue, to be siren but pretty soon you will probably find the 'loading process' relaxing, rather than just an interruption.

Some of this may take a geezer to fully appreciate.... :D
In lew of the recent thread regarding everyone's age, I seem to fit into the younger group here at 56. I'm still in the denial stage and refuse to sign up for AARP. To some of the older members here I guess I'd be a young'un but my daughter has referred to me as a geezer. Either way I definitely am a proponent of stopping to smell the roses (or gun powder in this case), so point well taken. I definitely have more time on my hands now as apposed to back then so no excuses now either.

I've watched a few vid's now on cleaning and tuning up the gun, the one above, and another by a guy named Blackie Thomas, and definitely like tinkering. Both are great video instructionals. I was looking into getting started with reloading also, and my shooting buddy told me he already has the press and dyes for the calibers I need, so I don't have to invest in the equipment, just the supplies. Wahoo on that! Anyways, lots of great input from all and thank you. I'll be giving the old cap and ball another shot or 20 :wink:
My other wife is a Les Paul Custom
God, Guns, Guitars, and Peanut Butter Pie..... Oh, and I guess the wife.
From my cold, dead, gun powder residue ridden hands.
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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

Post by mikld »

I too discovered the dish washer had more uses then washing dishes. I had a BP revolver for a while and when done, before I left the "range" I'd squirt it down with WD40. When I got home the grips and cylinder came off and the gun went into the dishwasher. After the drying cycle I used a copious amount of gun oil (can't remember what spray I was using then)...
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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

Post by Blaine »

Why not use a really light load of 2 or 3F in the 44 mag loads? :? :?
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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

Post by Grizz »

i did not know you could mix ballistol with water. another drop of ignorance washed away. thanks for the info... :)
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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

Post by M. M. Wright »

Blaine wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:07 pm Why not use a really light load of 2 or 3F in the 44 mag loads? :? :?
Just remember that black powder MUST be compressed! If you want reduced loads they must have a filler of some kind. I usually use paper wads from Circle Fly or Walters Wads. I have fellow shooters who use Cream O Wheat.
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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

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Blaine wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:07 pm Why not use a really light load of 2 or 3F in the 44 mag loads? :? :?
Due to my limited knowledge regarding cap and ball guns, this comment sorta confuses me. Does this gun, with the conversion cylinder, not use a .45 colt cartridge. From what I do know, my concerns are that they do not recommend using this conversion on the brass frame version because it likely cant handle the pressure. So then my next question was what if I used a lighter load. Thinking of that solution, I think I then would have to find that fine line of light enough to be safe for this gun, but not so light I risk the chance of a bullet getting stuck in the barrel. Generally as a rule, I hold a philosophy that if a gun can't handle the maximum load it's capable of shooting, I don't shoot it. For myself, if I know the gun is ok with said light load, that might be one thing. But if I sold the gun, I of course would thoroughly explain the limitations of it as is, but then if it got sold due to my passing away at some point, the buyer may not get informed of its current limitations or know enough to figure it out, there by buying a gun that is technically not safe. So all that being said, could you explain what you mean by using "a really light load of 2 or 3F in the 44 mag load". Thanks.
My other wife is a Les Paul Custom
God, Guns, Guitars, and Peanut Butter Pie..... Oh, and I guess the wife.
From my cold, dead, gun powder residue ridden hands.
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Blaine
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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

Post by Blaine »

Your limited knowledge of your shooter is more than my knowledge about your shooter.
My scientific wild-azz guess would be research the pressure on the max C&B load, and then research the cartridge loads and see if there is a load that matches the PSI of the C&B loads....Or, take the cyl maker's advise and don't use it with a brass frame.
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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

Post by LeverLuvr »

Agreed. In simplest terms, it's probably best to shoot it as intended. Any conversions I've found cost more than the gun itself. If so needed, I guess I just need to buy another gun. I hate it when that happens :mrgreen: Thanks
My other wife is a Les Paul Custom
God, Guns, Guitars, and Peanut Butter Pie..... Oh, and I guess the wife.
From my cold, dead, gun powder residue ridden hands.
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gamekeeper
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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

Post by gamekeeper »

One thing about shooting Cap n Ball it sure makes you appreciate them new fangled 1873s.... :lol:
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Re: 1858 New Army bummer

Post by LeverLuvr »

Something old, something new, never borrowed, something blued. At least I think thats how it goes. Heard it at a wedding once. :wink:
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My other wife is a Les Paul Custom
God, Guns, Guitars, and Peanut Butter Pie..... Oh, and I guess the wife.
From my cold, dead, gun powder residue ridden hands.
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