Those Winchester 44-40 WHV Loads

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Bryan Austin
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Those Winchester 44-40 WHV Loads

Post by Bryan Austin »

Been here before but here are a couple of fine examples.
1909 10-9 HV a.png
Untitledb.jpg
1903 - This 10-9 (Oct. 1909) dated label is the earliest W. H. V. examples I have seen. Manufactured specifically for the Winchester Model 1892, the JSP achieved 1,500fps. This side seal label is dated 1920. Note the Not For Pistols call-out. The side label warning mentions for use in the model 92' and single shot rifles. Also states not to be used in the winchester 73'.



WHV1.jpg
WHV 7 Side End Labels.jpg
1920 - K4414T, "Winchester High Velocity" (W.H.V.) first offered in 1903, the "1920" labels were just as uniformed but the call-outs were much different on this offer. This particular box shows the "Special Sight Adjustment" sticker, common in the 1930's. The ".44-40 Model 1892 Special" call-out was dropped. Under the cartridge cut noted "High Velocity Smokeless Cartridge" and right under are the smaller letters, "NOT FOR PISTOLS" is once again seen. This special load advertised 22,000 cup, nearly double the pressures produced by the standard loads. On the two piece box, the top label extends over both ends and laps across the bottom, sealing the box. The K-code, K4414T, long gone, is typically worn off of many examples and would be located just under the "Made In USA" on the end label. The Winchester "Guarantee" is located on the bottom quarter seal. There are no side labels thus I decided to show one side panel and part of the bottom. On the bottom is noted the "1920" label date (7-20) evident on all calibers during its time.

1925 Winchester World Standard Guns and Ammunition lists the rifle velocity for the 44-40 Model 92 Special W. H. V. (K-code not listed) to be 1,564fps with a trajectory of 2.3" @ 100 yards, 11.5" @ 200 yards and 31.2" @ 300 yards
1938 Winchester Shells and Cartridges lists the rifle velocity for the 44-40 K4414T (W.H.V.) to be 1,570fps with a trajectory of 2.2" @ 100 yards, 11.0" @ 200 yards and 30.0" @ 300 yards.
1941 Winchester Ammunition Guide Code: K4414T Model 92 Special, W.H.V. rifle velocity to be 1,570fps @ 100 yards, 1,220fps @ 200 yrds, Mid-Range Trajectory inch/yds: 2.2" @ 100 yards, 11.0" @ 200 yards and 30.0" @ 300 yards.


One other interesting item I have not seen before is this hint that the WHV was offered with a full patch bullet.
full patch info.jpg
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Sixgun
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Re: Those Winchester 44-40 WHV Loads

Post by Sixgun »

That is some pretty neat stuff back in the day. I've been collecting this stuff for close to 50 years and I've had a lot of it. Even had a box of 45-70 high velocity.....sold it along with others...still have two boxes of 25-20 hi vel and a broken box ..near full...of 38-40 high velocity with 130 grain bullets...I shot a few rounds of that and it chronographed 1900 fps.....

All of this stuff is easily duplicated.

38-40 and 25-20

Image


Yep..."not for use in revolvers"....some people didn't read labels and that's why they are no longer around.

Image
1st Gen. Single Action Colts. Poof! Poof!

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KWK
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Re: Those Winchester 44-40 WHV Loads

Post by KWK »

Interesting information, gentlemen. Thanks.
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Bryan Austin
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Re: Those Winchester 44-40 WHV Loads

Post by Bryan Austin »

Great collection there Sixgun! I really enjoy LOOKING at that old stuff and learning. All my money was spent on airplane stuff back in the day. Tons of money on all kinds of books. I just can't do that with the gun stuff. I thank those that show us their collections. Most is seldom seen!!!
A while back I started in in depth search for 44-40 information and just can't afford to purchase the necessary items to gain such knowledge. (which is what got me to looking at the 45 Colt Government stuff too). The more I searched the more I found, the more I found...the more questions I gained!

One thing I have learned the hard way is that when ya learn more than some others, they don't take a lik'en to it very well. I am still learning every day....but for now I can only focus on the 44-40 stuff. My brain has a hard enough time with this narrow subject!!!

PS: Love the padlock!
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OldWin
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Re: Those Winchester 44-40 WHV Loads

Post by OldWin »

I have 2 boxes of the second style. Both are full and in nice shape. Pretty cool.
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Re: Those Winchester 44-40 WHV Loads

Post by Bryan Austin »

in the chart I posted in my OP, has anyone seen any WHV Full Patch cartridges or boxes? I'd like to find photos and the K-code.
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Re: Those Winchester 44-40 WHV Loads

Post by Grizz »

I didn't see the bullet weight for the WHV rounds.... what is the weight on the velocity data? Thanks
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Re: Those Winchester 44-40 WHV Loads

Post by Bryan Austin »

Grizz wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:00 pm
I didn't see the bullet weight for the WHV rounds.... what is the weight on the velocity data? Thanks
Right on the sheet it says 200gr
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Re: Those Winchester 44-40 WHV Loads

Post by Grizz »

cool. thanks. I couldn't read it...
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Re: Those Winchester 44-40 WHV Loads

Post by Bryan Austin »

Grizz wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 9:05 pm
cool. thanks. I couldn't read it...
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Re: Those Winchester 44-40 WHV Loads

Post by Rube Burrows »

Sixgun wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 11:25 pm
That is some pretty neat stuff back in the day. I've been collecting this stuff for close to 50 years and I've had a lot of it. Even had a box of 45-70 high velocity.....sold it along with others...still have two boxes of 25-20 hi vel and a broken box ..near full...of 38-40 high velocity with 130 grain bullets...I shot a few rounds of that and it chronographed 1900 fps.....

All of this stuff is easily duplicated.

38-40 and 25-20

Image


Yep..."not for use in revolvers"....some people didn't read labels and that's why they are no longer around.

Image

I am curious as to what shot the lock?
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Re: Those Winchester 44-40 WHV Loads

Post by Sixgun »

Rube Burrows wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 8:39 am

I am curious as to what shot the lock?
Howdy Rube......ahhhhh nothing special...just 55 gr. ball .223 out of an AR.......I figure once you loose the key of a lock it still has a use. I shoot all kinds of stuff like that, the latest was my alarm clock that got me up at 5 a.m.for 44 years....gave it a load of 00 buckshot at about 5 yards.....the more stuff you "clear out of your head" the better you feel....my b.p. Is 120/70. :D

One of my biggest challenges was a steering box out of a '79 Ford pickup....one of those cast iron ones......had to use ww2 vintage "black tip" 30-06 out of my BAR to smash that one. Sure felt good afterwards. :D

Here's an old combination lock I shot one day using a single action Colt in 44 Spl....light load with a 250 Keith.....funny thing, when the bullet hit it the lock must have flown 50 yards. :D

Image


Here's the back side of the brass lock shot with the .223.----6

Image
1st Gen. Single Action Colts. Poof! Poof!

Image
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Re: Those Winchester 44-40 WHV Loads

Post by Rube Burrows »

Sixgun wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 2:10 pm
Rube Burrows wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 8:39 am

I am curious as to what shot the lock?
Howdy Rube......ahhhhh nothing special...just 55 gr. ball .223 out of an AR.......I figure once you loose the key of a lock it still has a use. I shoot all kinds of stuff like that, the latest was my alarm clock that got me up at 5 a.m.for 44 years....gave it a load of 00 buckshot at about 5 yards.....the more stuff you "clear out of your head" the better you feel....my b.p. Is 120/70. :D

One of my biggest challenges was a steering box out of a '79 Ford pickup....one of those cast iron ones......had to use ww2 vintage "black tip" 30-06 out of my BAR to smash that one. Sure felt good afterwards. :D

Here's an old combination lock I shot one day using a single action Colt in 44 Spl....light load with a 250 Keith.....funny thing, when the bullet hit it the lock must have flown 50 yards. :D

Image


Here's the back side of the brass lock shot with the .223.----6

Image
I know what you mean. I like to shoot old stuff too. Computers, TVs, old freezers etc. It makes for fun shooting before they go off to the dump. I know there is gratification in shooting things that tie you down like alarm clocks and stuff.
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