Winchester Model 94 loading problem...

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Snuffy
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Winchester Model 94 loading problem...

Post by Snuffy »

I have a Winchester Model 94 Legacy in .357, 24" inch barrel. Given when I purchased it was probably among the last of the firearms coming out of Hartford. It is stamped Hartford with a S/N 6,5xx,xxx. (Didn't think I should list the full number) It's never been real smooth, but currently it doesn't want to load a round in the chamber. This goes for Snap-caps, .357, or .38 special (was hoping to use since they are cheaper... er more economical). My gunsmith has been working on it... smoothing the action, but still has a problem. He's reached out to his gunsmith buddies for any info, but not sure if found out anything.

It picks up a round from the magazine tube, but as you pull the lever back it kicks the butt end (primer end) of the round up so it is trying to go in the chamber cockeyed. It sorta 'pops' up the primer end. If you move the lever just a tad, the round drops down and will then load. I've tried to attach a couple of pictures although it is hard to see the exact position of cartridge. Don't know if the site accepts a short video.

First two pics are with the cartridge out of alignment. Third pic is after moving the lever just a little bit and it drops in proper alignment. Didn't know how to number the pictures, but I believe you can tell which one has the cartridge in proper alignment.

I'm not going to try and work on it myself but will pass on any suggestions to my gunsmith.

Appreciate any help.
Snuffy
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gamekeeper
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Re: Winchester Model 94 loading problem...

Post by gamekeeper »

Welcome to the fire, help will be along shortly... :D
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AJMD429
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Re: Winchester Model 94 loading problem...

Post by AJMD429 »

Yep, there's people on here who I'm sure will know how to fix that. Unfortunately I'm not one of them. :oops:

MY answer would be 'trade it in for a Marlin', so wouldn't be helpful at all... :D

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wvfarrier
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Re: Winchester Model 94 loading problem...

Post by wvfarrier »

I had an identical problem with mine in 44 mag. It was resolved by polishing and slughtly opening the throat of the barrel.
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Pisgah
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Re: Winchester Model 94 loading problem...

Post by Pisgah »

Snap Caps are not action-proving dummies and should not be used as such. Does the problem occur with real ammo?
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J Miller
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Re: Winchester Model 94 loading problem...

Post by J Miller »

Snuffy,

Take a pic with the action open, looking down into the action w/o any cartridges in it.

Also there is a tiny little stamped metal deflector thingy attached to the lever just above the carrier. It's to help position the cartridge on the carrier. Is it there?

Joe
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Re: Winchester Model 94 loading problem...

Post by AJMD429 »

"...tiny little stamped metal deflector thingy ...."

THIS, from one of the most knowledgeable 94-guys on the forum. :D. Rumor has it that Joe was one of John Browning's assistants, but it may have been before he designed the '94.

Anyhow, Joe's usually right. ('cept'n he hates scopes; I put scopes on leverguns I don't even shoot, just so I can post pictures of 'em and raise Joe's blood pressure... :twisted: )
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Old Savage
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Re: Winchester Model 94 loading problem...

Post by Old Savage »

It's OK Joe, here is a 61 with no scope.
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Tycer
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Re: Winchester Model 94 loading problem...

Post by Tycer »

Does it happen when you cycle the action briskly?
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Alan Wood
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Re: Winchester Model 94 loading problem...

Post by Alan Wood »

Pisgah wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:54 am Snap Caps are not action-proving dummies and should not be used as such. Does the problem occur with real ammo?
I have a 94 in 44 mag myself that is just a little older than yours. It feed real ammo fine. As I recall the snap caps not so much.
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Re: Winchester Model 94 loading problem...

Post by Sixgun »

It's nice to see that "Snuffy" is paying attention to his post that he posted 19 hours ago and is thankful for the replies.

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Snuffy
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Re: Winchester Model 94 loading problem...

Post by Snuffy »

Well I had a draft and thought I saved it...?? So I will start over.

First a note to Sixgun... I hate to be snippy... but I have a disabled wife and am her main caregiver, esp on weekends... so firearms take a back seat. I get to enjoy that pastime in-between. I'm a healthy 71, but it keeps me busy.

I do appreciate the replies and was gathering some information and pictures.

I did mention in the original description of the problem that it happens with everything... .357, .38 special, snap caps. Including FMJ, lead nose, etc.

I found a parts diagram from Midwest Gun Works... and am still looking for the 'thingy'. If you see it on the pictures I am posting please point it out.

I have tried cycling every which way... easy to 'briskly'. No difference. See if the diagram and pictures help.

Thanks,
Snuffy

PS. I clicked on the 'Save Draft' button, but apparently didn't work. Instructions?
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J Miller
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Re: Winchester Model 94 loading problem...

Post by J Miller »

Snuffy,
You're drawing is for one of the other calibers. The .357 is the only one with the little extra piece on the lever.
Here is 3 photos I have showing the part. I was unable to find any exploded drawing showing the parts. These rifles were discontinued in 2005 so there isn't any factory support for them ... welll, there's no factory either. :cry:

ETA: I actually found a source for that part and screw; 4th row down:
http://homesteadparts.com/shopcart/comm ... 94_POST_64

1: part with a cartridge resting against it, looking down from the top -
Win 94AE .357 Ctg Stop a.jpg
2: close up showing side view.
Win 94AE .357 Ctg Stop b.jpg
3: opposite side view
Win 94AE .357 Ctg Stop c.jpg
If this little thingy is broken sometimes it will effect feeding. These pics are not mine, but came from someone here on LG's many years ago. Others have said it makes no difference weather it's there or not.

Also check the cartridge guides to make sure they are tight. Then check the carrier spring. Open the action till the carrier pops up. Push down on it with your finger. There should be a goodly amount of tension holding it up. Then push it till it snaps down, it should snap down firmly and stay down. If not the carrier spring might be loose or damaged.
A forum member sent me a broken .357 carrier to examine, it had been cracked for some time and finally gave way. Check that too.

There may also be a burr on the chamber mouth.

Good luck, I hope you get it figured out.

Joe
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Last edited by J Miller on Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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J Miller
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Re: Winchester Model 94 loading problem...

Post by J Miller »

AJMD429 wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:24 am "...tiny little stamped metal deflector thingy ...."

THIS, from one of the most knowledgeable 94-guys on the forum. :D. Rumor has it that Joe was one of John Browning's assistants, but it may have been before he designed the '94.

Anyhow, Joe's usually right. ('cept'n he hates scopes; I put scopes on leverguns I don't even shoot, just so I can post pictures of 'em and raise Joe's blood pressure... :twisted: )
I would love to have been one of John Browning's apprentices. Oh what a life that would have been.
However that little stamped thingy didn't come from the master, but from some flunky trying to fix the problem of the wrong diameter cartridge for the action.

As for the scopes, my eyes changed again. I used to be so near sighted I threaded my mom's needles for her. Then when I hit 40 I got more near sighted and needed bifocals. Now my eyes have changed again and I can see good at a distance, need cheaters up close. I might even be able to pass a drivers vision test without my glasses. That would be nice.

Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***
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Re: Winchester Model 94 loading problem...

Post by J Miller »

Old Savage wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:42 am It's OK Joe, here is a 61 with no scope.
Oh yummy :D I be likin that :mrgreen:

Joe
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Rube Burrows
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Re: Winchester Model 94 loading problem...

Post by Rube Burrows »

J Miller wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:57 pm Snuffy,
You're drawing is for one of the other calibers. The .357 is the only one with the little extra piece on the lever.
Here is 3 photos I have showing the part. I was unable to find any exploded drawing showing the parts. These rifles were discontinued in 2005 so there isn't any factory support for them ... welll, there's no factory either. :cry:

ETA: I actually found a source for that part and screw; 4th row down:
http://homesteadparts.com/shopcart/comm ... 94_POST_64

1: part with a cartridge resting against it, looking down from the top -
Win 94AE .357 Ctg Stop a.jpg

2: close up showing side view.
Win 94AE .357 Ctg Stop b.jpg

3: opposite side view
Win 94AE .357 Ctg Stop c.jpg

If this little thingy is broken sometimes it will effect feeding. These pics are not mine, but came from someone here on LG's many years ago. Others have said it makes no difference weather it's there or not.

Also check the cartridge guides to make sure they are tight. Then check the carrier spring. Open the action till the carrier pops up. Push down on it with your finger. There should be a goodly amount of tension holding it up. Then push it till it snaps down, it should snap down firmly and stay down. If not the carrier spring might be loose or damaged.
A forum member sent me a broken .357 carrier to examine, it had been cracked for some time and finally gave way. Check that too.

There may also be a burr on the chamber mouth.

Good luck, I hope you get it figured out.

Joe

Lots of good info in this post. This should get you going again. The 94 action was never meant to chamber 357-38 rounds. I had a 94 in .357 one time many years ago and it shot great but have see lots of others that had problems. Its hard to improve on something that Mr. Browning has invented.
Snuffy
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Re: Winchester Model 94 loading problem...

Post by Snuffy »

Thanks...

I appreciate everyone's help. My gunsmith is in Indiana for a week or so but we'll jump on all these suggestions/fixes as soon as he gets back.

I can press the carrier down (resistance) and it stays down. Checked Homestead for the part... listed as out of stock. Will contact them. Just don't know if I'm seeing the 'cartridge block' on the rifle. Will have to wait for gunsmith to take apart.
Thanks Joe

If anyone else posts more info I will see the email notification and check it out.

Thanks again and will submit a post after my smithy does his surgery on this cantankerous firearm.

How can I ride the range with The Duke, Jimmy Stewart, or Audie Murphy if my Winchester doesn't work?

Thanks
Snuffy
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