Chamber and barrel inserts

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44shooter
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Chamber and barrel inserts

Post by 44shooter »

Does anyone here have any direct experience or observation with inserts that allow firing of handgun or rifle ammo through a shotgun?

Seems accuracy would be lacking, especially with the lack of precise sighting. I know there are a few companies making these and they seem to resonate with the survivalist crowd. I'm skeptical about real hunting type accuracy even though I see long inserts in rounds like 30-30, 30-40, 45-70 etc. The offset rimfire chambers look hopelessly imprecise to shoot anything a 22 is appropriate for.

However, I'm thinking a short rifled insert in something like 38 Special or 45 auto (maybe a 44 special?) might be useful to have for my dad's old Iver Johnson that I'm fixing up and putting back in service as a stowed away vehicle gun. Sometimes you just need a single ball up close, cheap and without a lot of noise.
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Re: Chamber and barrel inserts

Post by piller »

No experience with them. It would appear that the imprecise sighting is going to limit effective range, and the short barrel they actually have is going to cut way down on accuracy as well as total velocity. Sort of a derringer with a bigger tube around it. For ranges of less than 50 yards it would probably work well. It probably would work about the same as a shotgun slug from a smooth bore, but smaller-lighter-lower recoil-cheaper-easier to find ammunition. Shotgun slugs in my area are not used much. Many stores don't even carry them. .44 special is available, as is .38 special. A .44 mag or a .357 mag insert would give enough power and ease of finding ammunition to fit to be useful. Just my opinion.
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marlinman93
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Re: Chamber and barrel inserts

Post by marlinman93 »

I've owned some of the old Marbles chamber inserts to fire pistol rounds in rifles, and although a better method, they rarely gave suitable accuracy beyond 20 yds. I've shot a Crossno liner to make a .45-70 shoot .22LR, and just the opposite! Extremely accurate!
I'd be doubtful as to how well a shotgun could shoot pistol ammo with an adapter.
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44shooter
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Re: Chamber and barrel inserts

Post by 44shooter »

I see inserts ranging from chamber length up to 18 inches. Some of the short ones aren't even rifled. I'm thinking the middle ground is probably the most practical. A five to seven inch rifled insert for handgun ammo is what I am thinking. I don't think the accuracy is there for long range, even if I had sights. I think pie plate accuracy to 30 yards may be possible. There are handguns I wouldn't count on that far. It would be for limited utility purposes...maybe dispatching a disabled animal, killing a varmint up close in a place you don't want to use shot etc. might be fun too

I know I could use slugs and have even more power. But, they cost too much and kick too hard in a gun like that for me to ever learn their potential. I can shoot handgun ammo in it until my cocking thumb gets tired.

Anyway I'm getting excited about this old clunker. I've already put a stock on it, and replaced the locking spring with stuff I bought from eBay. I docked the barrel to 22 inches last night with a hacksaw and files. The barrel was about 31 inches and had already had the choke cut out! I still need a bead or at least I want one.

Thinking about having it threaded for tubes and getting a Skinner takedown case. I would love to have a poly choke on it. A lot of money and time for an ancient single shot, but it's being put into use after decades of being tucked away. The thought is an always there gun for hunts of opportunity, emergency, impromptu shooting sessions and the like.
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Re: Chamber and barrel inserts

Post by gamekeeper »

I have not used rifled inserts but I have a gauge mate 16 GA. to .410 that works really well in my Stevens 94 . I would guess .410 slugs would do as well at close range and have similar accuracy plus with shot you would have a good snake and small vermin gun.
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Malamute
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Re: Chamber and barrel inserts

Post by Malamute »

I didnt look at them,I recalled a youtuber that did a report on them, so looked. May be some firsthand info rather than guesses? :)

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... r+adapters

A google search my be worthwhile also.
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Re: Chamber and barrel inserts

Post by AJMD429 »

I'd like to have an insert for 45 Colt or 44 Mag to use in a shotgun. It would shoot like a pussycat, since the gasses get to dissipate a lot before hitting the outside of the barrel (kind of like a suppressor without the baffles, if you use a 10" insert in a 20" barrel). I'd think IF the insert were rifled, and IF the orientation were always the same (maybe just mark the 'top' or mark the part that is by the extractor), and if it is 'snug' enough to not wobble around, then I'd expect halfway decent accuracy.
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Old No7
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Re: Chamber and barrel inserts

Post by Old No7 »

If/when you get one, I'd suggest the following to "test" for accuracy...

Put a small file mark on the end of the insert, then load it at "12 o'clock" and take 3 shots at 15 yards. Then try 3 more at 3:00, then 3 at 6:00 and 9:00 -- and chances are, one of those positions may be better than the others. If it's at 9 o'clock, then you could try 3 more at 10:00 and at 8:00 to see if there's a sweet spot in-between.

My late father suggested this once, to compensate for a "banana shaped" insert, but I never did get one to try it out. Seems to make sense though, and might be helpful.

Tight groups -- or maybe not!?!? :roll:

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44shooter
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Re: Chamber and barrel inserts

Post by 44shooter »

The more I read and think about it, I'm leaning towards not getting an adapter. It seems like good handgun level accuracy at best at ranges that can be handled with shot. I can use a handgun, even a very small inaccurate one, for the situations I mentioned. For $70 to $120, I don't think it's worth it for what seems to be a gimmick.

Might get a 20 gauge adapter though since that should work fine. Might be nice to tote lighter shells that I already have and not get kicked so hard.

I'm still going on with the short, takedown shotgun for the cars project though. Maybe a few Aguila mini slugs for when I might want a moderate single ball.
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Ray
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Re: Chamber and barrel inserts

Post by Ray »

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44shooter
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Re: Chamber and barrel inserts

Post by 44shooter »

Yes, I'd rather put that money toward getting it choked and in a short case than making a poor rifle out of it.
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Re: Chamber and barrel inserts

Post by Alphawolf45 »

I will agree that,"The offset rimfire chambers look hopelessly imprecise to shoot anything a 22 is appropriate for." But I shoot a BPCR .22 match that is shot out to 200 yards and the guys using the offset .22 inserts in Highwall, Stevens and Sharps rifles barreled and chambered for .40-65 or .45=70 win the matches..Amazing accuracy to be had from those .22 inserts.
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Re: Chamber and barrel inserts

Post by 44shooter »

I saw some long 22 inserts for rifles on the Alaskan site. That looks like it might work providing you index it repeatedly as you have observed. Bore dimensions of rifles are much more consistent and that provides support for the tube. And the sights on those rifles are incredibly precise whether optics or irons.

The shotgun inserts in rimfire cartridges are a different arrangement altogether. no sights other than aligning the bead with the breechblock as best you can. Totally inconsistent bores, chambers, forcing cones do not help either. I haven't seen any video or other reports to convince me that the rimfires are useful in a conventional shotgun. I have seen some good hits out to 50 yards with pistol ammo (minute of 2 liter or so) but usually with a sights other than a simple bead.

It's still interesting. Not sure it's very useful at all in my case. I have rifles and pistols and should bring something appropriate for what I plan to do. This shotgun is planned to be there just in case. It won't be perfect but should do a lot of things ok depending on how much work I put in it. It's 2 3/4 and shorter and I won't shoot steel in it. I'm fine with that. I think trying to make a short range rifle out of it is pushing it though.

Now if someone shimmed and glued in a long insert and had legitimate rifle sights on it, that might make a decent rifle. Wouldn't be a shotgun anymore though. I recall some Baikal inserts for their coach shotgun. They were full length and tensioned from the muzzle. It made for a more or less effective double rifle that could be made to a shotgun again. Or use one and have a combo gun. Wow, a 45-70 by 12 gauge! That seems to work too, but is beyond the scope of my situation. My first gun was an H&R with 20 gauge and 30-30 barrels. Wish I still had it
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Ray
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Re: Chamber and barrel inserts

Post by Ray »

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44shooter
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Re: Chamber and barrel inserts

Post by 44shooter »

Ray, I've read issues of people trying to get in touch with Mr Ace too. Heard he works construction and the winter months are better for correspondence. The gunadapter/short lane folks seems to be in full swing. Seen their products on retail sites and on youtube videos. Chiappa and gaugemate are also in the game.

I agree with you. It seems small gun related businesses are particularly bad about either slow production or poor customer relations. Some want to stay in the shop and not deal with customers. Others want to go to all the shows and show off their product but not get down to work. You have to do both. If you can't, hire help or sell to someone who can.

FWIW, Poly Choke is for sell. I read that the owner stopped corresponding and choking barrels to the point that customers who had barrels there were in the dark. The holding company has it for sell on eBay for the about the price of a new truck.
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Re: Chamber and barrel inserts

Post by Malamute »

One of the pictures of Gen Crook show what looks like an insert barrel in the muzzle of one side of his side x side shotgun. They used to be advertised in the old Sears catalog for a full length 38-55 insert for a 12 ga I believe. They had some sort of nut on the muzzle I think, that kept it centered and in place.
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Re: Chamber and barrel inserts

Post by Ray »

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crs
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Re: Chamber and barrel inserts

Post by crs »

Yes, I have the 18 inch .45-70 rifled insert for my Savage 12 gauge combination rifle which is .22 hornet over 12 gauge.
Image
The instructions for the insert recommended something like what old#7 did with his (file mark to allow precise installation at the most accurate position).
With factory 300 grain ammo, I was able to shoot 4 inch groups at 100 yards. That would have been fine for hogs, deer, or any medium to large animal.
As you might expect, the report was somewhat muffled with the 45-70 barrel inside the longer shotgun barrel. The heavy gun also reduced recoil to a modest level.

I shot a lot of wild turkey with the shotgun and hornet and a few prairie dogs with the hornet , but never hunted with the .45-70. That is a shame really and I should take the old beast out and shoot some hogs with it.

BYW, I do not remember the name of the maker, but they made a lot of such adapters. Multi Caliber Adapters may have been part of their advertising.
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DocRock
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Re: Chamber and barrel inserts

Post by DocRock »

I have an MCA 12" rifled 30-30 insert for a 20ga barrel. It's not very accurate given that aiming with the double barrel shotgun is not very precise. Not much use really.
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Re: Chamber and barrel inserts

Post by 44shooter »

Thanks Ray. I'd love to hear how it shoots.
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