.300 Blackout or .357

[Tom Mix]

I am trying to determine what I want. I am looking for a small light weight easy to carry rifle for backpacking and other outdoor fun.

I am building a low cost AR in .300 blackout as I can build the whole thing for less than $400 since it is all Anderson parts.

For a hunting rifle where white tail deer is the biggest thing I will ever hunt do you believe that the .300 blackout is the best choice or do you feel a Marlin 1894 in .357 is the best choice.

The AR can have a .22 LR top end put on it in no time for squirrels and rabbits but the 1894 can shoot light loaded 38's for the same thing.

What would you choose as I can not decided.

AR in .300 Blackout

or

Marlin 1894 in .357 mag.

[Streetstar]

AR in .300 Blackout

or

Marlin 1894 in .357 mag.

Winchester 1892 in .357 mag with a nod to possibly a Rossi 1892 or Winchester '94 in 357 as alternates (What can i say, its primarilly a leverguns site)

I can't envision enough of an advantage the .300 Blackout would have over a 1/7 twist 5.56 shooting heavy for caliber bullets , unless you are running it with a suppressor

That said --- I'd get the levergun AND - build up a $400 AR , that sounds like a bargain

[Tom Mix]

Winchester 1892 in .357 mag with a nod to possibly a Rossi 1892 or Winchester '94 in 357 as alternates

I have never been a Winchester fan, at least not in the leverguns as I have always preferred a Marlin and I know I will never buy a Rossi.

[FWiedner]

.357 ammo is easier to find when you're out in the territories.

I've got a Marlin 1894C and inside 100yds I might as well be be using my Model 94 Trapper in .30-30. I've taken whitetail deer, hogs, a truck-load of small game, and even a Black bear (Don't judge... The bear was there, and the Marlin was what I had...).

It's a good choice for a light woods gun. My favorite little carbine.

As to the performance of the .300 Blackout... Maybe ask for some input from Doc AJ.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Marlin 1894 , .357/.38

[ethang]

I just picked up a Rossi 92 in 357 a couple months ago. Mine was rough out of the box, but has slicked up very nicely just working the action watching TV. Accurate, light, easy to carry and hits hard. I like AR15's, but love leverguns. My vote is for a 357.

[AJMD429]

I woods-walk more with my Marlin 357 than my AR in 300 Blk.....however, the 300 Blk when assembled on a "pistol" lower can be pretty handy and compact if you want an easily-stowed gun. There is a folding adapter that allows the butt-tube to fold forward as well, or you can get fancy and get a different lower without the protruding buffer tube.

On the other hand, for some bigger bucks, you can get someone to make you a take-down 357 Marlin...

All in all, if I didn't have a levergun OR an AR, I'd want the latter, because of the latter being more versatile in a 'social calamity' situation, however the 357 is easy to load for, not ammo-picky, and plenty powerful and sturdy. But if I had any AR in any caliber, I'd want a 357 levergun (they are SO handy and practical).

If I had 'enough' leverguns already, I'd get the AR, and if I had 'enough' AR's already, I'd get the levergun.

[Ray]

Deleted.

[JerryB]

I would just get a slicked up Rossi 92 in .357 and be done. I enjoy mine as much as my 1892 Winchester in 32wcf. I do have an AR in 5.56 that my grandson built for me.

[Rusty]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I've never seen a .300 Blackout that is what you'd call a tackdriver.

Personally I find it hard to warm up to any AR.

On the other hand a .357 with 180 gr lead bullets packs quite a punch.

[Griff]

.45 Colt.

Seriously. But, in all honesty, you need to handload. Be forewarned, this IS Leverguns.com... Either a Marlin or Rossi in .357 will be serious medicine for what needs such. The octagon Short Rifle versions are handy, accurate, and better looking than the best of the ARs.

For the money, the Rossi is probably one of the best bargains around. Yes, you'll probably have to do a little work on it to make it the smooth, quick shooting little gun that you'd like. But... not only will you ultimately enjoy it, you'll have the satisfaction of making it so.

[Grizz]

I'd ask about the range considerations. The .357 will frizz out before the 300BLK, which can deliver more energy at 500M than the 556.

I know this is controversial. I have 2 300s and I haven't shot them at 500M and I haven't made meat with them, so it's all theoretical.

But there are LOTS of videos of 300BLK doing things to far out gongs and to ballistic gel in side-by-side comparisons. It is a quirky round, but fun to work with.

That said, I have a .357 Winchester and it rings gongs at 100 yards just fine, and should be a meat maker to that range in competent hands.

So the range question needs input. For hunting antelope? I'd use the 300 if those were my only choices.
For crocs in the woods, I'd want the extended mag capacity. For deer in the beanfields from good cover the levergun would be a delight.

[OldWin]

With the popularity of 300BLK, I HAVE to missing something. I wouldn't mind an upper that I could hunt whitetails with up here. I don't care about suppressing it. The info I've seen looks like a 125gr slug at maybe 2400fps. Maybe.
If I loaded my .308 to this level, nobody would be impressed. I would think a bullet that light in a .30 caliber would have poor ballistics at more than 200 yards. And a heavy would be slow enough to not have reliable performance and big trajectory.
On top of all this, I keep hearing how effective some of the commercial 60+gr. .223 loads are.
I'm getting a headache, maybe I'll keep using my 38-55.


I guess I'm asking more than the ragging on it I seem to be doing.



Oh, the .357 in a 92 carbine? I'm good. I really like mine. It's not a .44, but for a light carbine for woods work, it's just great. More capable than one would think, easy to shoot well, and way better for small came than the .44.

[Grizz]

good points about the BLK, BUT

mine shoots 147gr ball pulls from machine gun ammo just fine. so, I don't know the answer to this, but at some point a 147 launched from a 762 is going to decellerate to the velocity of a 147 from a BLK. my question is, at what velocity is the 147 from the 308 going slow enough that it won't hurt you? I heard a sniper from the war zone say that the longer distance shots were more effective because the bullet had slowed down, his words.

mine shoots 220gr just fine as well, something you have to use a 30-06 to shoot, and the question is exactly the same. at what range is the 30-06 totally useless? back up 100 yards and that is the effective range of the 300 BLK.

and about 125gr bullets, at what range will the .26 be ineffective with that bullet weight?

the military has determined that the 300/125 is more effective than the 556 at something like 460M. we're talking terminal ballistics. when I find that table I'll add it in.

I'm not saying it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, the 7.62 might be, but it's got lots of surprises going for it, so if someone has one it bears some thought and 'sperimentin' to wring it out. there are scads of videos on u2oob university.

[OldWin]

I don't worry so much from a military/anti personell standpoint as much as a hunting application.

I know people who hunt with 30 carbines too. If it was all I had, so would I, but it ain't.

I'd like a good deer round for an AR. Just don't want the hassel of some of the other choices. I always end up saying "oh well" and using something else haha.

[m.wun]

300 blk.- flatter shooting, extra mags, wide range of sights, durable package,and is real scary
to Dianne Finestien!
357 - slimmer, no mags to deal with, load as you shoot, wide range of ammo,and looks sweet
with a pair of cowboy boots!

[Panzercat]

Is it it a capacity thing? Because 30-30 is virtually .300blk and more common, especially if you're already considering a levergun.
But if the 357 vs 300 is the thing, then I'm going to go with 300. Logic as follows: Rossi.

It's realistically your only option if you're looking at a 357 truck gun. I sure as heck wouldn't want to throw a marlin into that role, nor a Henry unless said rifles were already very well broken in, if you follow. Secondly, you're paying a minimum of $500 for a new Rossi... And the hit or miss quality that goes with it. I'm pretty sure 300blk is obtainable at near the same price point and you have better control of the quality of components. Now if you can find a used Rossi at a pawn or something for less, all that goes out the window, but if you give me the choice between Rossi 357 and 300blk AR, for a truck gun, I'm not spending $500+ on the Rossi

And a 30-30 would be light years cheaper
Or an SKS :p

[cas]

I've had six or seven 300/221 Contender barrels, pistol and carbine, three AR uppers and one bolt action rifle, and none of them have been what I'd call super accurate. 1 MOA or slightly smaller from the best of them. That said, you probably won't find a lever action 357 that will do better.

I love hunting with old rifles of all flavors, lever action, bolt, pump, semi and especially single shots. But you know what other rifle I love hunting with, and it almost pains me to admit? My AR's. There's just so many good features to them that work so well for me hunting. The ease of slinging it in front of me muzzle down for hands free hunting. (conversely, I HATE carrying an AR without the front sling setup.) The adjustable stock is a joy to have in the winter with varying layers of cold weather clothes, how well the pistol grip and safety work with winter gloves, plus the low power illuminated reticle scopes I have on two uppers, and the fact that they're weather proof simply because I don't care what happens to them, about them rusting or the wood getting soaked etc etc. I love hunting with them, the only thing I don't like about them is that they NOT my old rifles that I enjoy so much. So the last few years they've been my bad weather guns.

I've never owned a 357 lever gun. I've long wanted one. I've tried to buy one a couple times, 3 times selling guns I liked and really shouldn't have sold to do so, only to end up not getting one for one reason or another. I always thought it would be good for hunting (like I need another hunting rifle) and I could plink with it fairly inexpensively. (whether I actually would or not is another matter.)

I love the 300/221 in the Contender pistol. Ive tried several times to warm up to it in a rifle with no luck. I'm trying again right now with yet another upper. Going to leave it iron sights and take it hunting this year. But it will still only be a backup to the backup.

[AJMD429]

I'm getting a headache, maybe I'll keep using my 38-55.

......NOW you're talkin'......!!!!!

[7.62 Precision]

Not telling you what to do or what not to do, just throwing some things out to consider:

If you are going to have a 16" or longer barrel, why .300 BLK? The cartridge is adequate for deer at short range with the right supersonic loads, but where it shines is with very short barrels. Otherwise, for deer I would prefer a 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, or a 5.56, the last being probably your least expensive build option.

In answer to the comment about snipers being effective at long ranges with .308, this is true. In an antipersonnel role, if I can put a .308 bullet traveling at 800 FPS into a guy's hand, he is a casualty. As a self-defense round, you want to focus on eliminating a threat, not just creating a casualty. But in that role, rarely would any kind of even intermediate ranges be involved.

But for hunting, velocity is critical because it is velocity that expands or fragments a bullet causing it to be an effective killer. Alternately, you can use low velocity with a heavy large-diameter bullet that is big enough to need no expansion. But when you have smaller, low velocity cartridges, especially when most bullets are designed to expand at much higher velocities, you have more difficulty.

I see the .300 BLK as an East Coast tree stand cartridge, plenty effective at short range with careful bullet selection, but why? 5.56 is better in many ways for hunting. 6.5 Grendel is so much more effective in every way, at every range that the .300 BLK is capable at, and off into the sunset.

In a 16" barrel, the popularity is due to hype, misconceptions about the cartridge (people think they are getting a .308 out of it), and the fact that it is just plain fun and brass is easy to get and make and all parts are standard except the barrel.

Now if you are going with an 8" barrel, that is another story. The .300 BLK is ideal. If you want to shoot subsonics suppressed, the .300 BLK is ideal. It is super efficient from short barrels, and at those really short barrel lengths will reliably cycle and outclass the 5.56 hands down.

So for a walking around the woods rifle, unless it is very short, I would go with a different cartridge, unless you just want to do it for the fun of it. But for something to carry around just to have along with you, a little .357 levergun is hard to beat. And you can get pretty impressive velocities from it. Bullets for a .357 are generally designed to expand at low velocities, too. But either cartridge, .357 or .300 BLK, is a short-range cartridge with a rainbow trajectory, so to me it comes down to what you want - do you want a .300 BLK AR or do you want a .357 lever gun? One can be as good as the other, get what you like.

[cas]

You bring up a lot of issues, but most of them are based on what people are used to or their perception of things. A lot of people bought 300BO's thinking they were somehow this powerful long range round (why I don't know) only to find out otherwise.

I had no issues with using a 300 Whisper out to 200 yards or more from a 10" pistol, so I certainly would have no qualms about doing it with a 16" rifle.

[jhrosier]

... at some point a 147 launched from a 762 is going to decellerate to the velocity of a 147 from a BLK. my question is, at what velocity is the 147 from the 308 going slow enough that it won't hurt you?.....

The forward velocity would decrease, but what about the rotation?
My understandind is that the RPM of the bullet remains almost unchanged throughout its flight.
A bullet spinning at 150,000 RPM would be a force to be reckoned with.
That rotation would not be a factor with the 300BO.

Jack

[7.62 Precision]

Not saying the .300 BLK isn't useful within its limits, it is, especially with some of the newer bullets designed for its velocity. And it is a fun little cartridge. Just saying that for me, if I can get a 6.5 Grendel that outperforms it as a hunting cartridge from the muzzle out to way past what the BLK is capable of, I would rather have that. The BLK is generally at a disadvantage against other cartridges in rifles that are ideal for shooting those other cartridges. Where it really shines is in configurations in which other cartridges perform more poorly from.

As far as RPM of the bullet, not sure what the factor is there?

[horsesoldier03]

As much as I like my AR, there is nothing handier than a levergun carbine in a pistol caliber!

[Panzercat]

You bring up a lot of issues, but most of them are based on what people are used to or their perception of things. A lot of people bought 300BO's thinking they were somehow this powerful long range round (why I don't know) only to find out otherwise.

I had no issues with using a 300 Whisper out to 200 yards or more from a 10" pistol, so I certainly would have no qualms about doing it with a 16" rifle.

Because its a versatile round. Google ".300 blk year" and watch its effective range at 600 plus meters. That said, other posters here are right-- unless you have very specific needs, theres a lot of options. 7.62x39 is virtually the same round. As is 30-30. Nothing wrong with 357 either save the Rossi component.

Maybe just me, but suggesting the truck gun aspect implies certain bugetary and personal attatchement limits. /shrug

[OldWin]

I think one thing that has been overlooked with .300BO popularity is that it fits in an AR mag and doesn't require a modified bolt, etc.
I think this fact, not necessarily stellar performance, is what fuels much of the popularity.

The fact is, there is a laundry list of better cartridges for the AR in regards to hunting.
I would much rather 6.8 or 6.5 Grendel for deer. Magazines, however, are more of a pain than with the 300BO.


One thing for certain, it's way less hassle to grab my 92, a mess of ammo, and head out the door.

As Panzercat mentioned, Rossi quality can be touchy ( I have an early one and got real lucky ), but I don't see where Marlin's of late are that much better......but way more money.

[7.62 Precision]

Whatever anyone says about the Rossis, the quality has gotten a lot better, and I consider them a good deal for a basic pistol-caliber lever gun. I have yet to personally see one that did not work out of the box - they might be a bit rough with heavy springs and a plastic follower, but take one out of the back and you can still use it. They make sense to me. They are not as smooth and nicely fitted like a Browning or Winchester, nor as cosmetically pretty as an Italian rifle, but they are half the price and ding or a bit of rust doesn't break your heart.

My kids all have ARs. Three have .357 Rossis, too. If I lay out an AR and a Rossi 92, and ask them which they want to shoot, they will pick up the Rossi every time.

[OldWin]

I agree 7.62,

Mine is an old one with no bolt safety and has a metal follower but I bought it used. Mine is downright pretty and the only thing that gives it away as a non-Winchester is the front sight.
It could use some smoothing but feeds anything I give it. I find myself really liking it and throwing it in the Jeep a lot.
Best thing is, I don't have to worry about it and there is no guilt.

[Old Ironsights]

.357 ammo is easier to find when you're out in the territories.

I've got a Marlin 1894C and inside 100yds I might as well be be using my Model 94 Trapper in .30-30. I've taken whitetail deer, hogs, a truck-load of small game, and even a Black bear (Don't judge... The bear was there, and the Marlin was what I had...).

It's a good choice for a light woods gun. My favorite little carbine.

As to the performance of the .300 Blackout... Maybe ask for some input from Doc AJ.

Also easier to reload over a campfire. Another nod to the .357.

[Grizz]

here is a hunting tale of a 300BLK. whitetail at 150yds. is that a reasonable nite shot from a .357 leverer?

http://www.alloutdoor.com/2015/01/05/30 ... hitetails/#

[bmtshooter]

Get the one that feels best in your hands. Down the road, that is the one you will pick up when leaving the house. Either should get the job done if you put the bullet in the right place.

[Old Ironsights]

here is a hunting tale of a 300BLK. whitetail at 150yds. is that a reasonable nite shot from a .357 leverer?

http://www.alloutdoor.com/2015/01/05/30 ... hitetails/#

110 sure is with the right load. 150? I probably wouldn't unless I was subsistence Hunting with no other shot in the immediate future...

[AJMD429]

As far as RPM of the bullet, not sure what the factor is there?

Theoretically if the bullet tumbles upon impact, that extra energy would destroy more vitals; dunno if that translates to real-world hunting situations.

Of course sometimes the big issue with potentially subsonic heavy-for-caliber bullets is that when people slow the velocity, only especially rapid-twist barrels will actually stabilize those long bullets at those low rpms.

[AJMD429]

I'd like a good deer round for an AR. Just don't want the hassel of some of the other choices. I always end up saying "oh well" and using something else haha.

Perhaps the best solution involving the AR platform would be to get a 50 Beowulf upper then. That duplicates the ballistics of a 45-70 in a semi-automatic AR-15 platform, and is no more unpleasant to shoot than a 223 AR-15.

Eventually, you will probably wind up with both the pistol caliber lever gun, AND an AR-15 of some sort or another.

One of the nice things about the AR, is if you get one in 300 Blackout, all you need to do is switch a barrel and you have a 223, or if you prefer just an extra upper, for faster switchover. Then get a 50 Beowulf and you have everything you would need for two-legged and four-legged predators as well as hunting...

I should add that any AR-15 set up you have, you will ultimately want an upper in 223, because whether or not it is inferior to 300 Blackout and so on, it is the common, generic, 'gold standard'.

[cas]

Perhaps the best solution involving the AR platform would be to get a 50 Beowulf upper then. That duplicates the ballistics of a 45-70 in a semi-automatic AR-15 platform, and is no more unpleasant to shoot than a 223 AR-15.

I dunno about that, I let a lot of people shoot mine who whinged about the recoil. I always felt it was about like shooting a 20ga semi auto shotgun. Maybe with slugs. I miss mine a little. It's a spendy option all around though.

[hayabusa]

My 50 Beowulf does not seem unpleasant on recoil to me.

[7.62 Precision]

Beowulf is truly not unpleasant to shoot. Especially in this configuration:


Pepperpot brake and recoil-compensating stock. Only the 350 gr. solid brass spitzer load fully compresses the stock with a slightly noticeable bump at the end. I lent this rifle to a petite 7-year-old girl who took a bear with it.

As far as expense, everyone looks at it wrong. They say the Beowulf is expensive because it is in an AR, so they compare it to 5.56. A better comparison is to a .45-70, and if you compare ammo to the .45-70, it reanges from less expensive to half the price of comparative .45-70 loads. The rifle itself is priced in the same range as any quality AR.

Still, for deer hunting, I would go with the Grendel. Much more versatile, ammo is inexpensive (steel-case Grendel ammo is priced the same as steel-case 5.56, the difference is that the Grendel chamber is designed for steel case ammo, and the steel-case Grendel ammo is very high-quality stuff built to AA specs).

[Mike Armstrong]

Get a T-C G2 Contender Carbine and get BOTH barrels! Actually I prefer the .357 for short/medium distances because you can shoot so many loads in it that are commercially available. Ive killed both boars and blacktails with my TC .357 and trust it at moderate ranges. Takes down easy and can be put in backpack. Re-assemble as needed. I have .22 and .410 barrels for it, too.