For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

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For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by AJMD429 »

I don't think these were commercially successful, but it got me wondering why something like the Remington 760 couldn't be chambered in that round (500 S&W); I think they were available in some relatively high pressure rounds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKc_35xlSSk
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Buck Elliott »

Sure would like to see the inner workings of that pump gun...!!

As for the 760 Remington..? Barrel one up and give it a try.. !
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by AJMD429 »

Actually I always thought one in 350 Remington would be a really nice 'hog' gun, but I've heard conflicting reports as to whether or not they were actually made in that chambering.
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Buck Elliott »

I can't find any reference to indicate that either the 760 or the 7600 were ever chambered for any belted case...
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by madman4570 »

I want that gun. :mrgreen:
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Merle »

AJMD429 wrote:I don't think these were commercially successful, but it got me wondering why something like the Remington 760 couldn't be chambered in that round (500 S&W); I think they were available in some relatively high pressure rounds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKc_35xlSSk


Is a 35 Whelen big enough for you? :lol:
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by AJMD429 »

Buck Elliott wrote:I can't find any reference to indicate that either the 760 or the 7600 were ever chambered for any belted case...
I think you're right. It wasn't as high pressure as the 'other' belted magnums, and maybe could have been, but the only thing I came across was probably referring to 35 Remington. way,I guess they made them in 35 Remington for awhile, then not, then did again, and some folks assumed that having 35 Remington listed twice (as '35 Rem') might mean that one of the listings was the 350 Rem Mag.

Anyway, the idea of a pump rifle in a short-fat high powered round is appealing; sort of a slug-gun with better accuracy.
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Sixgun »

It's ugly, that's for sure. I'm thinking a straight wall case would be an issue in a pump gun that has little camming force for extraction. But I'm no engineer, just a peon factory worker.---6
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Buck Elliott »

Nope.. You ain't no engineer...

Tell me why you would need "camming force" to extract a relatively-short, straight case..?
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by piller »

If the cartridge were kept to the pressures typical of most handgun rounds, I am not sure that any fired case would be hard to extract. That is just an observation from someone who does not have a degree in engineering. There are several types of engineering, and I would think that mechanical is the most practical for this type of application. I like the looks of the Remington 760 better than what AJMD429 posted, but looks are not the only thing to go on. It has to work or it is useless.
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Buck Elliott »

Heavy-loaded .500 S&W cases nearly fall out of a single-action revolver cylinder after firing.. Same as the .454 Casull or the heavy Linebaugh stuff.. Double-actions can be a mite more finnicky... Heaviest loads can pinch the extractor star in a double-action gun..

The bolt of a traditional levergun exerts no "camming force" either.. Just a straight pull by the extractor on the case rim..

An engineering degree is not required to understand how that all works..
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by piller »

My Ruger SRH in .480 does sometimes have sticky extraction with loads that are near maximum, but factory level usually fall out on their own. I load my .45 Colt chambered Ruger Blackhawk up to 1000 fps with 300 grain Speer JSP bullets, and that standard extractor for a wheelgun will push the empty cases out with ease. My .30-30 will shuck the brass with so little effort that I can't tell the difference in totally unloaded and cycling out an empty. I have never actually had trouble with my bolt actions in .30-06 or .270 either. If the Model 99 and the BLR can use .308 and no one seems to have have trouble with them, then a slide action should work, too.
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Buck Elliott »

Perzackly...!
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by J35 »

Something along the lines of a .44 auto mag on steroids might work in the 760.

I had a 760 in .308 for about five years, never any problems feeding or ejecting.

I shot that rifle like normal people shoot 22 rim fire and she finally started getting loose so I traded it off.

Fun platform ,carried it many a mile.

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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Sixgun »

Buck Elliott wrote:Nope.. You ain't no engineer...

Tell me why you would need "camming force" to extract a relatively-short, straight case..?
Buck,
Just thinking about the many times I nearly wore a 1/4" hole in the palm of my hand pushing on the ejector rod from hot loads from 29's, 27's, or 57's. I hear the 500 S & W operates at 60K which is more than 50% more than the 357,41, or 44 and the law of physics does say that when a cylinder and it's insert has just a few degrees of taper, that the release of the insert from the cylinder is much easier when there is a slight taper as opposed to when both have parallel sides, especially if irregularities are present on the outer surfaces of the insert or the inner surface of the cylinder.

That why you make guns and I just shoot them. My end of the agreement is more fun. :D ----6
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Buck Elliott »

Oh I get to shoot too, as well as make 'em.. Double the Fun, in my book...

I just hope I get to live long enough to know as much as a couple you boys think you do... then I could die happy --- or at least Smart... :lol:
Regards

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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Thunder50 »

How about a 760 in 458 Socom(308 rim size)? Be like having a pump action 45-70.

Or possibly 50 Beowulf (7.62 x 39 rim size) for a real thumper. This would probably be easier to do than the 500 S&W.
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Washita »

Buck Elliott wrote:Nope.. You ain't no engineer...

Tell me why you would need "camming force" to extract a relatively-short, straight case..?
One of the things that I've always liked about this forum is how folks generally find a way to disagree without getting insulting or condescending. Well, most folks, anyway.
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by AJMD429 »

One of the things that I've always liked about this forum is how folks generally find a way to disagree without getting insulting or condescending. Well, most folks, anyway.
That's got to be one of the stupidist, lame-brained responses I've ever seen on this forum; there needs to be some kind of basic-IQ-test to keep the flunkees from the short-bus squad off here so the rest of us can talk like men.

-
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:o
-
-
:wink:

Seriously, I think this is another one of those instances where the subtle non-verbal cues we all depend on to distinguish 'snotty arrogance' from 'good-natured ribbing', is unfortunately not within the bandwidth of 'internet forum communication'. I've seen and heard lots of similar comments in workplaces and gunshops over the years that were most certainly not meant to be insulting, any more than the "Hey fatboy, how's come you snuck out to lunch and didn't ask the rest of us if we wanted anything...were you afraid we'd find out you were a sissy 'cuz we found out you drink that cherry-flavored diet Dr. Pepper...???" kind of comments most of us toss back and forth at work on a regular basis.
At least hopefully that accounts for most of it here, anyway....
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Sixgun »

Washita wrote:
Buck Elliott wrote:Nope.. You ain't no engineer...

Tell me why you would need "camming force" to extract a relatively-short, straight case..?
One of the things that I've always liked about this forum is how folks generally find a way to disagree without getting insulting or condescending. Well, most folks, anyway.
Washita,
Your right. That individual did write that as being condensending. I knew that last night but I did not respond in a mean way as my parents always told me to consider the source when someone says something out of the way. -------6
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Merle »

Buck Elliott wrote:Heavy-loaded .500 S&W cases nearly fall out of a single-action revolver cylinder after firing.. Same as the .454 Casull or the heavy Linebaugh stuff.. Double-actions can be a mite more finnicky... Heaviest loads can pinch the extractor star in a double-action gun..

The bolt of a traditional levergun exerts no "camming force" either.. Just a straight pull by the extractor on the case rim..

An engineering degree is not required to understand how that all works..

That's the second time you've been rude about this. Obviously you don't understand how to make a polite reply. :roll:
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Buck Elliott »

Some of you kids sure have thin skins..

My replies are not meant to be "politically correct" (whatever that may mean..)

If you can wade through your fractured feelings, you may actually be inspired to THINK through a situation for yourself.. You may even (horrors!) Learn something, even if it's only Critical Thinking..

If you decide you don't like me or my philosophies, you are invited to ignore anthing you see that has my name attached to it.. I really don't need your adulations..

From my own perspective, I get bored by the adolescent rantings of a couple of guys (who shall remain - by design - nameless) who can't handle criticism of an degree.. I really don't care that I can't bench press a Buick.. (secretly, I don't think he can either...) that has never been something to which I aspired.. I also outgrew any proclivities toward blowing up the neighborhood, decades ago...

And to those who think they can divine my intent, solely from the printed word, congratulations.. You have proved yourself profoundly ignorant..
Regards

Buck

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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Merle »

Buck Elliott wrote:Some of you kids sure have thin skins..

My replies are not meant to be "politically correct" (whatever that may mean..)

If you can wade through your fractured feelings, you may actually be inspired to THINK through a situation for yourself.. You may even (horrors!) Learn something, even if it's only Critical Thinking..

If you decide you don't like me or my philosophies, you are invited to ignore anthing you see that has my name attached to it.. I really don't need your adulations..

From my own perspective, I get bored by the adolescent rantings of a couple of guys (who shall remain - by design - nameless) who can't handle criticism of an degree.. I really don't care that I can't bench press a Buick.. (secretly, I don't think he can either...) that has never been something to which I aspired.. I also outgrew any proclivities toward blowing up the neighborhood, decades ago...

And to those who think they can divine my intent, solely from the printed word, congratulations.. You have proved yourself profoundly ignorant..


And you have just confirmed that you are a jerk - thanks for removing all doubt from my mind!
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Buck Elliott »

Wouldn't want to cause you any confusion....
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Blaine »

:lol: :lol:
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by piller »

On a slide action, you do have the power of several large muscle groups working together to force the empty out. On a double action revolver, you are pushing the extractor and forcing 6 empties out at the same time and doing it by pushing them on a portion of the rim. In a rifle, you are pulling on the rim, and just on one piece of brass at a time. That makes for different forces and different levels of effort needed. If you tried to extract the empty from a Mosin Nagant by pushing on the rim from the same direction as a revolver pushes, I don't think you would ever get the empty out. Where the force is applied and in what direction does make a difference. I have come to see all this because I recently had a long talk with someone who is a true rocket scientist. I have the good fortune to have access to the engineer who designed the Trident Missile. He is a family member, and he is very smart where in comes to anything mechanical.
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Sixgun »

Thanks Piller....I learn something new everyday. :D ------6
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Buck Elliott »

Extraction of fired cases from manually operated firearms is not rocket science.. Some semi- or full-auto weapons operate under a slightly different set of rules, but they are not exactly the subject of this thread..

Rocket scientists have an annoying tendency to overthink things, and get bogged down in theories and postulations, which they often mistake for observation and logic.. I know.. I had to be wary of that mindset during my own rocket scientist days, when we were designing and building the MinuteMan, the C-4 and the Space Shuttle booster rockets.. But -- I digress..

In case extraction, it makes no difference if the case is being pushed or pulled.. Becaue if the extractor is functioning against the front of the rim, the action of the operator is being applied in the same manner, effectively pushing against the case at that point, even though it is being pulled by the bolt or the revolver extractor assembly.. You can call it push or pull as you choose, but the observed mechanical action is the same.

As a point of interest, when working on the .454 rifle, we found that even 96,000 - 98,000 psi proof loads extracted with remarkable ease, even though the plastic and elastic limits of the case material had been exceeded.. Headstamps were completely obliterated, primer pockets gaped open, brass flowed into every nook and cranny of the bolt face, and flattened out primers rattlled to the depths of the action when we pried the case from the bolt and extractor..
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Les Staley »

....Jeez.....guess I'm slightly outclassed here.....
This is plagiarized from someone else, but I love it!

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It wasn't a choice.
I didn't become one later in life.
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by carbluesnake »

Merle, be humble. As I replied to a fella (coach of the Army rifle team and U.S. Olympic team) that said I didn't know anything about shooting, "I've always got time to give a lesson or learn a lesson." Then he passed a bit of wisdom on to me. A little humility goes a long way.
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Merle »

carbluesnake wrote:Merle, be humble. As I replied to a fella (coach of the Army rifle team and U.S. Olympic team) that said I didn't know anything about shooting, "I've always got time to give a lesson or learn a lesson." Then he passed a bit of wisdom on to me. A little humility goes a long way.


Thank you, but I'm not the one who needs to be humble. A pleasant attitude goes a long way when offering info or CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM - not so much with arrogance.
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Bullard4075 »

Buck Elliott wrote:Oh I get to shoot too, as well as make 'em.. Double the Fun, in my book...

I just hope I get to live long enough to know as much as a couple you boys think you do... then I could die happy --- or at least Smart... :lol:
OUCH! :lol:
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Bullard4075 »

Gosh I love this place. Always sermon material.
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by AJMD429 »

Bullard4075 wrote:Gosh I love this place. Always sermon material.
Well, we ARE just a bunch of former-5th-graders... :lol:

(...at least them what made it that far in skool... :wink: )
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Blaine »

Like Bestlever always said: It's hard to look up to someone when they look down at ya.... :wink:
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by 3leggedturtle »

Merle wrote:
Buck Elliott wrote:Some of you kids sure have thin skins..

My replies are not meant to be "politically correct" (whatever that may mean..)

If you can wade through your fractured feelings, you may actually be inspired to THINK through a situation for yourself.. You may even (horrors!) Learn something, even if it's only Critical Thinking..

If you decide you don't like me or my philosophies, you are invited to ignore anthing you see that has my name attached to it.. I really don't need your adulations..

From my own perspective, I get bored by the adolescent rantings of a couple of guys (who shall remain - by design - nameless) who can't handle criticism of an degree.. I really don't care that I can't bench press a Buick.. (secretly, I don't think he can either...) that has never been something to which I aspired.. I also outgrew any proclivities toward blowing up the neighborhood, decades ago...

And to those who think they can divine my intent, solely from the printed word, congratulations.. You have proved yourself profoundly ignorant..


And you have just confirmed that you are a jerk - thanks for removing all doubt from my mind!
HUH Guess I'm wrong; BE is jus a jerk; I always thot he was MR Jerk, I.E. Marty Robbins song according to Shorty. But he knows his chit and I learned reloading from a gent like him in '72. Don't let door hit you on way out. And any one like him feel free to not respond ( I encourage it) to my posts. Todd/3leg
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Merle »

3leggedturtle wrote:
Merle wrote:
Buck Elliott wrote:Some of you kids sure have thin skins..

My replies are not meant to be "politically correct" (whatever that may mean..)

If you can wade through your fractured feelings, you may actually be inspired to THINK through a situation for yourself.. You may even (horrors!) Learn something, even if it's only Critical Thinking..

If you decide you don't like me or my philosophies, you are invited to ignore anthing you see that has my name attached to it.. I really don't need your adulations..

From my own perspective, I get bored by the adolescent rantings of a couple of guys (who shall remain - by design - nameless) who can't handle criticism of an degree.. I really don't care that I can't bench press a Buick.. (secretly, I don't think he can either...) that has never been something to which I aspired.. I also outgrew any proclivities toward blowing up the neighborhood, decades ago...

And to those who think they can divine my intent, solely from the printed word, congratulations.. You have proved yourself profoundly ignorant..


And you have just confirmed that you are a jerk - thanks for removing all doubt from my mind!
HUH Guess I'm wrong; BE is jus a jerk; I always thot he was MR Jerk, I.E. Marty Robbins song according to Shorty. But he knows his chit and I learned reloading from a gent like him in '72. Don't let door hit you on way out. And any one like him feel free to not respond ( I encourage it) to my posts. Todd/3leg

I'll presume you are directing this at me, and will respond in kind.

Well, if you display the same level of arrogance as BE I certainly won't bother with your posts either. Too bad you didn't learn a bit about humility while you were learning to reload.

I learned to reload in 1964, so doesn't that me superior? :lol: And there's no door gonna hit me, because I'm not going anywhere just because of a small number of jerks; most people here are helpful without being rude. :D
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by 3leggedturtle »

Merle wrote:
3leggedturtle wrote:
Merle wrote:
Buck Elliott wrote:Some of you kids sure have thin skins..

My replies are not meant to be "politically correct" (whatever that may mean..)

If you can wade through your fractured feelings, you may actually be inspired to THINK through a situation for yourself.. You may even (horrors!) Learn something, even if it's only Critical Thinking..

If you decide you don't like me or my philosophies, you are invited to ignore anthing you see that has my name attached to it.. I really don't need your adulations..

From my own perspective, I get bored by the adolescent rantings of a couple of guys (who shall remain - by design - nameless) who can't handle criticism of an degree.. I really don't care that I can't bench press a Buick.. (secretly, I don't think he can either...) that has never been something to which I aspired.. I also outgrew any proclivities toward blowing up the neighborhood, decades ago...

And to those who think they can divine my intent, solely from the printed word, congratulations.. You have proved yourself profoundly ignorant..


And you have just confirmed that you are a jerk - thanks for removing all doubt from my mind!
HUH Guess I'm wrong; BE is jus a jerk; I always thot he was MR Jerk, I.E. Marty Robbins song according to Shorty. But he knows his chit and I learned reloading from a gent like him in '72. Don't let door hit you on way out. And any one like him feel free to not respond ( I encourage it) to my posts. Todd/3leg

I'll presume you are directing this at me, and will respond in kind.

Well, if you display the same level of arrogance as BE I certainly won't bother with your posts either. Too bad you didn't learn a bit about humility while you were learning to reload.

I learned to reload in 1964, so doesn't that me superior? :lol: And there's no door gonna hit me, because I'm not going anywhere just because of a small number of jerks; most people here are helpful without being rude. :D
Humiity, I ben talked down to all my life, all I ever wanted was to learn and be taught. No one ever was decent except the old crusty curmudgeons that I was told to not associate with. learning by experience and the hard way sucks and hurts but, have never double chaerged, blew up rifle or went off on a newbie. have taught more than few to reload and cast. wasn't a slam just a respect. hate the the way dad talked to me, but always came home with all my fingers and toes after a day of chainsawing wood. Knowledge on here is amazing, jus realize if in person there would be no rudeness meant or intended. Todd/3leg
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

250 Savage... its what the 223 wishes it could be...!
Merle
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Merle »

3leggedturtle wrote:
Merle wrote:
3leggedturtle wrote:
Merle wrote:Some of you kids sure have thin skins..

My replies are not meant to be "politically correct" (whatever that may mean..)

If you can wade through your fractured feelings, you may actually be inspired to THINK through a situation for yourself.. You may even (horrors!) Learn something, even if it's only Critical Thinking..

If you decide you don't like me or my philosophies, you are invited to ignore anthing you see that has my name attached to it.. I really don't need your adulations..

From my own perspective, I get bored by the adolescent rantings of a couple of guys (who shall remain - by design - nameless) who can't handle criticism of an degree.. I really don't care that I can't bench press a Buick.. (secretly, I don't think he can either...) that has never been something to which I aspired.. I also outgrew any proclivities toward blowing up the neighborhood, decades ago...

And to those who think they can divine my intent, solely from the printed word, congratulations.. You have proved yourself profoundly ignorant..


And you have just confirmed that you are a jerk - thanks for removing all doubt from my mind!
HUH Guess I'm wrong; BE is jus a jerk; I always thot he was MR Jerk, I.E. Marty Robbins song according to Shorty. But he knows his chit and I learned reloading from a gent like him in '72. Don't let door hit you on way out. And any one like him feel free to not respond ( I encourage it) to my posts. Todd/3leg

I'll presume you are directing this at me, and will respond in kind.

Well, if you display the same level of arrogance as BE I certainly won't bother with your posts either. Too bad you didn't learn a bit about humility while you were learning to reload.

I learned to reload in 1964, so doesn't that me superior? :lol: And there's no door gonna hit me, because I'm not going anywhere just because of a small number of jerks; most people here are helpful without being rude. :D
Humiity, I ben talked down to all my life, all I ever wanted was to learn and be taught. No one ever was decent except the old crusty curmudgeons that I was told to not associate with. learning by experience and the hard way sucks and hurts but, have never double chaerged, blew up rifle or went off on a newbie. have taught more than few to reload and cast. wasn't a slam just a respect. hate the the way dad talked to me, but always came home with all my fingers and toes after a day of chainsawing wood. knowledge on here is amazing, just realize if in person there would be no rudeness meant or intended.

Todd/3leg[/quote]


OK then, we are in agreement about this. :) I too have been talked down to, since I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. That's one reason I am touchy about those kind of attitudes. :P

I'm letting go of this thread now.
Merle from PA
3leggedturtle
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by 3leggedturtle »

So you been dealing with it 12 years b4 me. Only guys that would help me were the crusty nasty old curmudgeons that were rude and nasty to town folk. Used to sneak down the roada mile to earn how to cast and reload. Yes I had parent permission :lol: Still have all my fingers and aint blew up a gun since '72. So I am thnkful to elders that have been there and still doing it.
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

250 Savage... its what the 223 wishes it could be...!
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KWK
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by KWK »

I once had a hankering for a 7600 in .400 Whelen, but decided the recoil would be more than I enjoy.
Merle
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Merle »

3leggedturtle wrote:So you been dealing with it 12 years b4 me. Only guys that would help me were the crusty nasty old curmudgeons that were rude and nasty to town folk. Used to sneak down the roada mile to earn how to cast and reload. Yes I had parent permission :lol: Still have all my fingers and aint blew up a gun since '72. So I am thnkful to elders that have been there and still doing it.

I've been called a curmudgeon more than once, but I'm not the first one to be rude & nasty. I understand about town folks; we had a lot of people who came "out to the country" from Pittsburgh and felt they should lord it over us hicks. Not all were like that, but the vast majority were.

Obviously you had good teachers & paid attention if you have not done any damage to yourself or your guns! Good job! Just remember to help the newbies, so they remain undamaged. :mrgreen:
Merle from PA
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Re: For Big Bore Pump Action Rifle Fans...

Post by Hobie »

I was once taught that speaking to the point isn't insulting but being insulted by it is. It appears that in my absence some of you have devolved and for that I am locking the topic.
Sincerely,

Hobie

"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Locked