Tempering a flat spring....It works!

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: AmBraCol, Hobie

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
User avatar
TedH
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8248
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:19 pm
Location: Missouri

Tempering a flat spring....It works!

Post by TedH »

Not having any luck finding a spring for my 1851 Navy put my wheels in motion. (Yes, that can be dangerous at times.) I got started making a new spring from an old feeler gauge that was about the same thickness. It's very hard brittle steel, so I figured it had a high carbon content which I believe is also necessary in spring steel. I have to soften it in order to get the shape right, but then I need to re-temper back to spring. I've read a couple methods online, but would like to know how you do it. Or, am I just wasting my time?
20131029_134533.jpeg
20131029_134619.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by TedH on Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
NRA Life Member
Mescalero
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6180
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:21 pm

Re: Tempering a flat spring.

Post by Mescalero »

I don't think a feeler guage is the right base metal to start with.
3leggedturtle
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4145
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:34 am
Location: north of Palacios about 1400 miles

Re: Tempering a flat spring.

Post by 3leggedturtle »

Trying; whether you succeed, fail or have to retry is never a waste of time. I used a bench grinder to thin down a spring and got laughed out of a few shops for asking, but 20 years later its still working and only cost $ .49 cents at a hardware store and 30 minutes of my time. Shops quoted me $5-20 for spring and $40 or so for labor. Did try Ahlman's gunshop for a spring?
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

250 Savage... its what the 223 wishes it could be...!
pwl44m
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3613
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:48 pm
Location: East Linda Caif.

Re: Tempering a flat spring.

Post by pwl44m »

It is never a waste of time when trying to make Ur own parts. I found that out when ordering an extractor for My 73 in 32-20 and kept getting bad ones. So I made My own and tempered it and it works just fine. As far as metallurgy I am a complete Idiot. On trying to work that feeler gauge down. I would try to get it close to shape with nippers and then file for shape so as to Not heat the metal. All U can lose is time and one feeler gauge (what 20c) Good Luck.
Perry
Perry in Bangor----++++===Calif
rgates
Levergunner 1.0
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:24 pm

Re: Tempering a flat spring.

Post by rgates »

I have replaced the same type spring using both ends of a hacksaw blade. Just grind out each side, stack and you have both arms. No tempering needed, and that single action saw thousands of rounds and never failed.
BenT
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2716
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:21 pm
Location: Northern Wisconsin

Re: Tempering a flat spring.

Post by BenT »

+ 1 on trying a hack saw blade first. Start wide and grind narrower until you get the correct flex.
86er
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4703
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:58 pm
Location: Republic of Texas

Re: Tempering a flat spring.

Post by 86er »

Well, if you want to be traditional you may need a quenching solution like I learned in England while studying to be a Gunmaker. Urinate in a metal jar and put the lid on it for about a month. Great for hardening and tempering. You probably want some tongs to get your parts out of it.
Professional Hunter
http://www.TARSPORTING.com
"Worldwide Hunting Adventures"

Professional Hunters Assoc of South Africa
SCI - Life Member
NRA - Life Member
NAHC - Trophy Life Member
DWWC - Member
Mescalero
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6180
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:21 pm

Re: Tempering a flat spring.

Post by Mescalero »

I have heard of this method before 86.
So I do not doubt you.
On the surface, it appears to be unseemly.
Ben_Rumson
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2569
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:51 pm

Re: Tempering a flat spring.

Post by Ben_Rumson »

The spring you're making looks like the one that tensions both the trigger and cylinder locking bolt...
First polish the metal bright... Make sure you polish lengthwise not the short way across to avoid leaving across marks that could lead to it breaking at one of them when it bends...To temper, heat, it with a low flame from a propane torch or any way you can devise to bring it up very slowly to dark sky blue... About the color of the bar where your name is where it says Author for your post. Quench in light oil immediately(Peanut oil has worked for me) Hint... Have the quench oil set as close as you can have it to the work piece so it stops the temper as fast as possible... After it's quenched take your Dremel tool and cut the slot that makes the individual fingers of the spring.. Be careful not to overheat the metal when making the slot... The reason to make the slot after the temper is to assure even temper on both the fingers.
If you want to hedge your bet a little, make a test piece out of that same feeler gauge to check for spring or brittle before you make the real one... if it bends and doesn't spring then go to a lighter shade of blue if it cracks a darker blue...Best of luck Keep us posted..
"IT IS MY OPINION, AND I AM CORRECT SO DON'T ARGUE, THE 99 SAVAGE IS THE FINEST RIFLE EVER MADE IN AMERICA."
WIL TERRY
Chuck 100 yd
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6972
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:52 pm
Location: Ridgefield WA. USA

Re: Tempering a flat spring.

Post by Chuck 100 yd »

86er , Urin was also used to brown bun parts in the early days of America.
Making springs is not as hard as people make it out to be. The proper steel used is the main thing.
If you can find a spring that can be cut down you know you have a proper alloy to begin with.
It needs to be polished. Springs usually snap at stress points caused by deep scratches or sharp corners. Heat to critical temp,usually cherry red and quench. Draw (temper) to approx 400 deg. for 1 hr. in an oven. I draw knife blades and cutting tools like reamers to 350 deg. Car and truck springs are tempered to as high a temp as 700 deg. but they are not made of common spring steel.

Brownells has a spring stock kit they sell to make springs out of.

Many hack saw blades are made of mild steel with a thin piece of tool steel laminated on as the cutting edge.Make sure that you aren't wasting your time working one of those.
92&94
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1266
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:59 pm
Location: New Mexico

Re: Tempering a flat spring.

Post by 92&94 »

Bandsaw blades and drywall knives both seem like good sources of spring steel.

I'm going to change my bandsaw blade soon, want a piece of the old one?
Nate Kiowa Jones
Site Sponsor
Posts: 2507
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:05 pm
Location: Lampasas, Texas
Contact:

Re: Tempering a flat spring.

Post by Nate Kiowa Jones »

Chuck 100 yd wrote:86er , Urin was also used to brown bun parts in the early days of America.
Making springs is not as hard as people make it out to be. The proper steel used is the main thing.
If you can find a spring that can be cut down you know you have a proper alloy to begin with.
It needs to be polished. Springs usually snap at stress points caused by deep scratches or sharp corners. Heat to critical temp,usually cherry red and quench. Draw (temper) to approx 400 deg. for 1 hr. in an oven. I draw knife blades and cutting tools like reamers to 350 deg. Car and truck springs are tempered to as high a temp as 700 deg. but they are not made of common spring steel.

Brownells has a spring stock kit they sell to make springs out of.

Many hack saw blades are made of mild steel with a thin piece of tool steel laminated on as the cutting edge.Make sure that you aren't wasting your time working one of those.

That's basically how I do it. A good source for stock would be those springy putty knifes. Those are usually decent spring stock. You can heat it to a low cherry and cool it slowly (sand bath) to soften it enough to work it. Cut it out to shape, bend it, then polish before you bring it back to a low cherry. I usually try a water quench to harden it to brittle. Try a test piece first. See if it will go from soft and workable to quenched and brittle. If it works then make your part. Once it's brittle hard, then polish it again so you can see the color changes. To draw small parts like this back I like to use an electric stove burner/element. Lay the part on it, turn it on and when the part just starts to turn straw colored to light blue kick it off to cool. It should flex but not break.
Steve Young aka Nate Kiowa Jones Sass# 6765

Steve's Guns aka "Rossi 92 Specialists"
205 Antler lane
Lampasas, Texas 76550


http://www.stevesgunz.com

Email; steve@stevesgunz.com

Tel: 512-564-1015

Image
User avatar
Sixgun
Posting leader...
Posts: 18565
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:17 pm
Location: S.E. Pa. Where The Finest Winchesters & Colts Reside

Re: Tempering a flat spring.

Post by Sixgun »

I forgot how many springs I made from a lawn mower recoil thingy. Its the long spring that pulls the cord back in.--------6
Model A Uzi’s
Image
User avatar
TedH
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8248
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:19 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: Tempering a flat spring.

Post by TedH »

Thanks for the tips everyone. I think I will start over with a new piece. I have a couple old puddy knives laying around with busted handles that should work nicely. I'll let you know how it turns out.
NRA Life Member
Mescalero
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6180
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:21 pm

Re: Tempering a flat spring.

Post by Mescalero »

I did not think feeler gauge was the right base metal.
Mescalero
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6180
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:21 pm

Re: Tempering a flat spring.

Post by Mescalero »

I did not think feeler gauge was the right base metal.
M. M. Wright
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4296
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:57 pm
Location: Vinita, I.T.

Re: Tempering a flat spring.

Post by M. M. Wright »

VTI gun parts will have the spring. If it's a Colt or close clone then that spring from an SAA should fit or be really close. Brownell's, Midway and a bunch of others will have spring and lower power kits that will fit. You can't possibly make one cheaper than you can buy one if your time is worth 50 cents an hour. While you're at it buy a set of Treso nipples for it too. Then your no. 11 caps won't fall off all the time and the chamber will be sealed by the tight cap.
M. M. Wright, Sheriff, Green county Arkansas (1860)
Currently living my eternal life.
NRA Life
SASS
ITSASS
Rusty
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 9528
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:37 pm
Location: Central Fla

Re: Tempering a flat spring.

Post by Rusty »

Might try Dixie Gun Works, they've always been my go to for anything in the black powder line.
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tough-
Isiah 55:8&9

It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
User avatar
TedH
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8248
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:19 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: Tempering a flat spring....It works!

Post by TedH »

I went ahead and used the feeler gauge metal I started with yesterday, figuring I'd just use it to practice on. I followed Steve's directions and it turned out perfectly functional. I don't know if it will last, but I rarely shoot this gun, so it's good enough for now. It's all back together and the cylinder indexes and locks up just fine. :D

20131031_132303.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
NRA Life Member
User avatar
Buck Elliott
Member Emeritus
Posts: 2830
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:15 pm
Location: Halfway up Sheep Mountain -- Cody, Wyoming

Re: Tempering a flat spring....It works!

Post by Buck Elliott »

VTI is my #1 Go To for Italian clone parts, from all the various manufacturers... They know their business..

Learning how to make springs is valuable, but you can't make ONE for the cost of buying one..
Regards

Buck

Life has a way of making the foreseeable that which never happens, and the unforeseeable, that which your life becomes...
Mescalero
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 6180
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:21 pm

Re: Tempering a flat spring....It works!

Post by Mescalero »

I AM surprised by that.
User avatar
TedH
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8248
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:19 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: Tempering a flat spring....It works!

Post by TedH »

Buck Elliott wrote:VTI is my #1 Go To for Italian clone parts, from all the various manufacturers... They know their business..

Learning how to make springs is valuable, but you can't make ONE for the cost of buying one..

I tried VTI. They were out of stock, and said 6-8 weeks till they expected any more. This one didn't cost me anything to make, and I learned a little something in the process.
NRA Life Member
Little Doc
Levergunner 1.0
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:15 pm
Location: Indian Territory

Re: Tempering a flat spring....It works!

Post by Little Doc »

45 gage piano wire will make that spring and will never break. you can adjust tension as desired.
m
M. M. Wright
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4296
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:57 pm
Location: Vinita, I.T.

Re: Tempering a flat spring....It works!

Post by M. M. Wright »

Yeah Mike, the wire ones are what I use and I keep a selection of stock from Brownells to make them from though you can buy those too.
M. M. Wright, Sheriff, Green county Arkansas (1860)
Currently living my eternal life.
NRA Life
SASS
ITSASS
Ben_Rumson
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2569
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:51 pm

Re: Tempering a flat spring....It works!

Post by Ben_Rumson »

Congrats!! 8) 8) 8)
"IT IS MY OPINION, AND I AM CORRECT SO DON'T ARGUE, THE 99 SAVAGE IS THE FINEST RIFLE EVER MADE IN AMERICA."
WIL TERRY
Nate Kiowa Jones
Site Sponsor
Posts: 2507
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:05 pm
Location: Lampasas, Texas
Contact:

Re: Tempering a flat spring....It works!

Post by Nate Kiowa Jones »

TedH wrote:I went ahead and used the feeler gauge metal I started with yesterday, figuring I'd just use it to practice on. I followed Steve's directions and it turned out perfectly functional. I don't know if it will last, but I rarely shoot this gun, so it's good enough for now. It's all back together and the cylinder indexes and locks up just fine. :D

20131031_132303.jpeg

Although this is not a precise way to determine what the parent metal is, if you put it to a grinder and the sparks coming off also explode like a sparkler before they go out most like you have a higher than normal carbon content and it will most likely make a decent spring.
Steve Young aka Nate Kiowa Jones Sass# 6765

Steve's Guns aka "Rossi 92 Specialists"
205 Antler lane
Lampasas, Texas 76550


http://www.stevesgunz.com

Email; steve@stevesgunz.com

Tel: 512-564-1015

Image
Post Reply