OT - Aviation: Gathering of Mustangs and Legends

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Slick13
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OT - Aviation: Gathering of Mustangs and Legends

Post by Slick13 »

I know there are WWII aviation buffs here, so I thought I'd pass along this link.

http://www.gml2007.com/index.asp

Next weekend at Columbus Ohio, they're going to have a gathering of over 100 P-51 Mustangs, and 50 aviation legends. In addition there will be P-38s, a P-47, B-17, B-25, P-40, P-63, and others.

I plan on being there. If any levergunners plan on going, let me know. I'll be there at least Saturday, and I'll be the guy wearing a brown A-2 flight jacket and a Cleveland Indians cap.

~Michael
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Post by C. Cash »

That would be something to see for sure. I didn't know there were that many Mustangs left.

I found this story pretty cool from Slick13's link:

http://www.gml2007.com/h_p51-remembered.asp

Spending alot of time at Falcon Field in Mesa, AZ as a kid, I got to be around a good number of Mustangs and other WWII warbirds. I felt just about like the author above....the awe of seeing them in action and knowing the men who flew them was incredible.
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Mike D.
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Post by Mike D. »

There are 5 P-51s within a short drive of here, and I used to see one or more in the air at least once a week and often more. One of the guys would give us impromtu air shows, doing low flybys and performing fast aerobatics overhead. The sound of a Packard Merlin is not ever forgotten.

In 1957, my dad and I went to Mather Field to check out the Mustangs that were being sold. Freshly reconditioned and overhauled P-51s were going for a bit over a thousand, but it might as well have been 10 Million to an 11 yr old kid. Several years later, the RCAF sold their remaining Mustangs for as little as $500. Nowadays, you'd have to fork out around 1 Million bucks for a good P-51. Fuel and insurance are extra.
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Post by C. Cash »

Mike D. wrote:There are 5 P-51s within a short drive of here, and I used to see one or more in the air at least once a week and often more. One of the guys would give us impromtu air shows, doing low flybys and performing fast aerobatics overhead. The sound of a Packard Merlin is not ever forgotten.

In 1957, my dad and I went to Mather Field to check out the Mustangs that were being sold. Freshly reconditioned and overhauled P-51s were going for a bit over a thousand, but it might as well have been 10 Million to an 11 yr old kid. Several years later, the RCAF sold their remaining Mustangs for as little as $500. Nowadays, you'd have to fork out around 1 Million bucks for a good P-51. Fuel and insurance are extra.
BTT

If we only would have had a little foresite to preserve these pieces of history. My Dad was stationed at Mather AFB and also Travis back in mid/late 50's, where all of my brothers were born. Hope to get up there someday to have a look.
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Post by Mike D. »

It has been turned into a County Park, Chris. Some business and freight aircraft still call it home. Same goes for McClellan. All AFBs except Beale are long decommed, and Beale is barely hanging on.
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Post by C. Cash »

Mike D. wrote:It has been turned into a County Park, Chris. Some business and freight aircraft still call it home. Same goes for McClellan. All AFBs except Beale are long decommed, and Beale is barely hanging on.
I was afraid of that. Only a couple of remaining B-36's too, none flying. THAT would have been something to see in action as well.
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Post by cas »

Heck I would just love to "hear" that. 8)


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jd45
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Post by jd45 »

I look at the 51 & can't help but think it was the highpoint in pistonpounder fighter aircraft, BUT wonder why we had to go with the Rolls-Royce Merlin powerplant. What was defficient about the Allison? But then maybe I just answered my own question, didn't I? I mean, what more is there than Rolls Royce? I'll appreciate any feedback, jd45
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Post by jd45 »

BTW, is that Chuck Yeager's Mustang in the pic? What a beauty! jd45
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Post by Buffboy »

jd45 wrote:I look at the 51 & can't help but think it was the highpoint in pistonpounder fighter aircraft, BUT wonder why we had to go with the Rolls-Royce Merlin powerplant. What was defficient about the Allison? But then maybe I just answered my own question, didn't I? I mean, what more is there than Rolls Royce? I'll appreciate any feedback, jd45
The Allison is a good motor, but the Merlin outperforms it by an order of magnitude, especially at altitude. The engines were built under license here in the states by Packard. I have to stay away from airshows or I'll go into deep depression. I miss my Hiperbipe. http://musclebiplane.org/htmlfile/dkoch.php
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Post by Mike D. »

The Allison engine, while exceptional at lower altitude, was grossly inadequate above 15,000 ft.

Wikipedia has an excellent article on the history of the P-51. It makes for some very interesting reading, containing a lot of pertinent fact concerning the aircraft. Google the P-51 Mustang. :D
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Post by C. Cash »

Here is a good site about the Merlins:
http://www.aviationshoppe.com/Rolls-Royce-Merlin.html

No matter what anyone says, those P-40's and P-38's still impress the heck out of me when they take off. I think the Mustang overall was just a superior design which complimented a more powerful and precise engine. More horsepower and ability to transfer the horsepower into speed through superior design. From reviewing the website above, it looks like they got less performance with the Allison's Turbosupercharger at high altitude, which was powered by exhaust, versus the mechanically supercharged Packard-Merlins which did better.
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Post by RSY »

jd45 wrote:...the highpoint in pistonpounder fighter aircraft...
Don't you mean the F-4U Corsair???

:twisted:

scott
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cas
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Post by cas »

jd45 wrote:BTW, is that Chuck Yeager's Mustang in the pic? What a beauty! jd45
My pic? I took that this spring.(?) It's these guys. http://www.warbirdsoverli.com
Last edited by cas on Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jd45
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Post by jd45 »

Mike........NO KIDDING!!! An EXCELLENT article on Wickipedia???? I'll have to check it out!! Seriously, tho, what is the powerplant on that HYPERBIPE? Could it be an 8cyl, such as I saw on a Piper single-engine monoplane several years ago at Midway Airport in Chicago. I think the displacement was 300 cu. in. The guy took us for a ride & made a low pass over the field at 200 knots. The tower warned other aircraft in the area that a TWIN was producing this airspeed, about which our pilot corrected him. We got a good laugh out of that one
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Post by jd45 »

Scott, I've heard that Mustangs were able to go past 500 knots in a dive, but I'm sure that's not the total measure of the abilities of a fighter aircraft. BTW, I love the Corsairs, too! jd45
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Post by Buffboy »

The Hiperbipe had an O360 Lycoming when I had it. The new owner put an I0-360 200hp in it. It weighed 1160# empty so even with 180hp was quite the performer. I've heard of them being built with the IO540 but never ran across one. I was considering building a hopped 540(I was in regular communication with the owner of that website back then and he'd gotten to 450hp out of a 540 with perfect reliability). When the business started going south, I had to sell it.

PS the Brave spray plane behind it in the one photo does have the IO720(the number is the displacement) 400hp 8 cylinder engine in it so I know them pretty well.

Not a Mustang by any means but fun all the same.
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Post by RSY »

Here is an interesting little story. While we were busy putting a man on the moon, apparently the Central Americans were shooting each other down in our old planes:

http://militaryhistory.suite101.com/art ... in_the_air
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Post by Ysabel Kid »

Very cool! 8)
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Post by RSY »

jd45 wrote:BTW, is that Chuck Yeager's Mustang in the pic? What a beauty! jd45
Looks like it says "Glamorous Gal," instead of "Glamorous Glennis."
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cas
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Post by cas »

RSY wrote:Looks like it says "Glamorous Gal," instead of "Glamorous Glennis."
That it is.

This really isn't an OT post. I see this Mustang and their P-40 fly over all the time while I'm at the range. :D

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Post by jd45 »

I should've said 300HP instead of cubic inches on that Pipers' 8cyl. AND I should've looked at the whole name on the 'stang........I mistakenly focused just on the "Glamorous" part, and assumed. jd45
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Post by Slick13 »

jd45 wrote:I look at the 51 & can't help but think it was the highpoint in pistonpounder fighter aircraft, BUT wonder why we had to go with the Rolls-Royce Merlin powerplant. What was defficient about the Allison?
Insufficient super charging. The Allison had a single stage, two speed supercharger. The Merlin used in the Mustang and later Spitfires had one two speed super charger feeding another two speed super charger. It could suck plenty of wind well above 30,000 feet. The Allison was pretty well tuckered out by 20,000.

The early Allison engined P-51s (P-51, P-51A, A-36) were good planes though, and don't deserve the bum rap they always get in print and TV programs. The Allison engined aircraft were 500 lbs lighter than the Merlin engined AC, and could fly circles around them below 15,000 feet. The A-36 had a single speed, single stage super charger optimised for 5,000 ft, and it would go like mad at low alt.

As for the P-51 being the high point of piston engined AC, if the P-47 had legs, you'd never have heard of the P-51. Range is the only big advantage the P-51 has over the P-47.

~Michael
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Post by C. Cash »

One that was always at Airshows at Falcon Field, Mesa, AZ piloted by Bob Hoover. He put on amazing demonstrations with this and his Aero Commander:

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Post by jd45 »

Well, that just shows you how much I know about WWII fighter aircraft!. I should say, I love the JUGS, too! Especially their amazing ability to absorb battle damage & keep on with the mission. Didn't some of them see use, after being souped up, as Buzz-bomb chasers? And I'll bet the Tuskeegee Airmen loved them, too! I understand it was their weapon of choice for bomber-escort duty. jd45
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Post by C. Cash »

The P-47 was an amazing machine....all brute force. I believe the Tuskegee Airmen used P-51's, P-40's and the P-47 "Jug".
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Post by RSY »

My grandfather was a B-24 waistgunner in the 15th Air Force in Italy. He told me about them being escorted by the Tuskegee guys. They were in Mustangs, at the time.

In addition to the ones mentioned above, they also appear to have flown Airacobras.

scott
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Post by jd45 »

Speaking of Jugs, my Uncle Jim was friends with a Jug pilot by the name of Roger Copang, IIRC. Used to come up to Hayward, Wisconsin, back in the early-mid '80's, for a couple weeks in the summer, & have dinner at my uncle's supper club, the Tally Ho. Roger was a member of an elite group called the "Caterpillars", who were fighter pilots who had been shot down & captured by the Germans during WWII. I don't know if they were just Jug pilots or they flew other types of fighters, tho. jd45
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