38-55 with Universal/Unique?

[mad mucus]

G'day fellas,

I'm looking for a smokeless load using the powders I have, if possible.

Winchester '94 LF 38-55 using Starline long brass, Federal LR primer, 255gn RNFP .380" or 245gn RNFP .379" .

I will also try AR2205/H4227 & AR2207/H4198.

Up 'til now I have only been shooting 255gn RNFP .380" over 46gn Wano ffg black.

Thanks,

Mark

[Yodar]

MM:

Here is a IMR-4198 load I have used in a Winchester Model 94 rifle. W-W brass, CCI#200 primer, 18 1/2 grains of IMR-4198, Oregon Trails Laser Cast 0.377" diameter 240 grain cast lead flat nosed bullet without a gas check. OAL=2.52". Average muzzle velocity was 1316 fps, group size at 50 yards for five shots was 1" shooting from a bench rest. Rifle barrel groove diameter was 0.375". I have other loads if you are interested.

[mad mucus]

Thanks Yodar..... my OAL=2.543"

[3leggedturtle]

10grs of Unique is s'posed to be a nice light accurate load, 1300fps or so with a 250gr bullet.

[rbertalotto]

9g Unique with a 250g lead bullet.........Excellent accuracy and easy to shoot all day.

[Hobie]

[mad mucus]

Thanks Rob & 3leg..... around 10 grains was my thought line for an accurate 50yd target shooting load.

Hobie, thanks for the chart effort.
I have all the cal charts & US powder equivalents on the Aussie ADI Powder site(worth a look ).....

http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders-guide/

Mark

[Sixgun]

9g Unique with a 250g lead bullet.........Excellent accuracy and easy to shoot all day.

This load cannot be beat for an all around play load in any temp. I've shot thousands loaded this way and I even used that load last year at the Pa. State silhouette Champs but the trajectory was a bit high on the 200 meter rams. I either shot right over them or below them.-------------6

[Model 52B]

Nothing much to add.

I use 9.6 grains of Unique under a 250 gr FNBP cast bullet in my .375 Win. It lopes along at about 1,250 fps with great accuracy an it's a pleasant load to shoot.

[gundownunder]

A few blokes here in WA have found a good load for silhouette using Trailboss. The good thing about Trailboss is that there is no chance of a double dose fitting in the case.

[JohndeFresno]

QuickLoad shows nice safe loads with 9-10 gr Unique as posted above.

I downloaded the ADI Powders chart. Thanks, Madmucus! QuickLoad lists these powders but I was totally unfamiliar with them.

Now, my concern:
You listed:
ADI AR 2205 / H4227 and
ADI AR 2207 / H4198
as if (at least to me) they are equivalent and shareable, e.g.
H110 / Win 296,
HP 38 / Win W231,
HS 71 / Win W571

However, in reading the description of your AR 2205 and AR 2207, the literature states that they have a similar burning rate with the mated powders listed above (H4227, H4198 respectively). But if the density is different, one can run into trouble by using shared stats. I ran these on the ballistic software.

Here is an example:
It appears that your BP load is getting around 1200 fps, using Goex ffg as an example (I'm unfamiliar with Wano; not on the tables). So I chose a target velocity of around 1400 fps, a comfortable velocity range for this cartridge in smokeless loadings.

I am assuming that your safe Max pressure for the .38-55 is 34,809 psi - that's what I'm using as a reference.

AR 2205 20 gr. gives you 1487 fps at a safe 18840 psi; 58.6% case fill.
H4227 20 gr. provides 1454 fps at only 15664 psi, but it fills up 63.4% of the case.

Conclusion: Although the burn rate may be equivalent, you can run into trouble with either pressure or overfilling the case (which creates huge pressure issues) at higher charges. I'll send you some more info.

Incidentally, this software coincides closely with the findings of Yodar and 3leggedturtle, so confidence is high with the calculations.

[redgum]

QuickLoad shows nice safe loads with 9-10 gr Unique as posted above.

I downloaded the ADI Powders chart. Thanks, Madmucus! QuickLoad lists these powders but I was totally unfamiliar with them.

Now, my concern:
You listed:
ADI AR 2205 / H4227 and
ADI AR 2207 / H4198
as if (at least to me) they are equivalent and shareable, e.g.
H110 / Win 296,
HP 38 / Win W231,
HS 71 / Win W571

However, in reading the description of your AR 2205 and AR 2207, the literature states that they have a similar burning rate with the mated powders listed above (H4227, H4198 respectively). But if the density is different, one can run into trouble by using shared stats. I ran these on the ballistic software.

Here is an example:
It appears that your BP load is getting around 1200 fps, using Goex ffg as an example (I'm unfamiliar with Wano; not on the tables). So I chose a target velocity of around 1400 fps, a comfortable velocity range for this cartridge in smokeless loadings.

I am assuming that your safe Max pressure for the .38-55 is 34,809 psi - that's what I'm using as a reference.

AR 2205 20 gr. gives you 1487 fps at a safe 18840 psi; 58.6% case fill.
H4227 20 gr. provides 1454 fps at only 15664 psi, but it fills up 63.4% of the case.

Conclusion: Although the burn rate may be equivalent, you can run into trouble with either pressure or overfilling the case (which creates huge pressure issues) at higher charges. I'll send you some more info.

Incidentally, this software coincides closely with the findings of Yodar and 3leggedturtle, so confidence is high with the calculations.

If you still have it, i would like to see that info too "JohndeFresno"
I am just now delving into this territory

[Catshooter]

Universal is a great powder, but not in a big case like the 38-55. It is quite position sensitive. Unique is not.


Cat

[redgum]

Interesting Catshooter, I never thought much about that.
I am wondering now about Winchester WSF / 473AA and also ADI-AP70N
They have similar burn rates to Unique/Universal, but I have never considered sensitivity to powder position

[wm]

IMO powders are like tools …… and you don't sub in a hammer for a screw driver. That said some tools are just more versatile then others …… buy a small can of 3031. You'll find a way to use it in one cartridge or another.

Wm

[earlmck]

I like Universal because it throws closer than Unique from my trusty old Herter's measure. 9.5 grains of the stuff seemed to shoot rather well from my Marlin 38/55 (maybe I was mistaken?) but with the 1300 fps velocity I didn't have enough elevation adjustment in my Williams FP sight to get on the 500 yard target. So I got to 17 grains of IMR Blue (which I blithely use in place of BlueDot) and that is all taken care of.

[oldAG]

QuickLoad shows nice safe loads with 9-10 gr Unique as posted above.
I downloaded the ADI Powders chart. Thanks, Madmucus! QuickLoad lists these powders but I was totally unfamiliar with them.

Please note that ADI makes a great many of the powders that Hodgdon market. Some of them will be direct equivalents.

[MGR1]

I have used Hodgdon Universal with success in 356 Win, 7.65x53, 6.5x55, 44-40 WCF and 357 Magnum. Great powder for reduced loads. Very accurate and low standard deviation. I have not found it to be very position sensitive.

[Catshooter]

Earl,

I love Universal! It's a great powder. I'm glad your experience with it in the -55 was better than mine. If I was careful to hold the rifle muzzle up and then slowly bring it to level then it grouped really well. If not . . . I'm sure it worked well for you. I have learned over the years that the one hard & fast rule in shooting is there are no hard & fast rules. It's only results that count.


Cat