Who knows Ruger Blackhawks well?

[AJMD429]

Why all the bother to make something out of nothing?------------Sixgun

I think the idea is just as a learning experience and to see what is possible.

[Griff]

Bob,

What you have there is exactly what you called it, an example of a 1970's wax pistol. Frankly, at best, a museum piece. You'd be better off making yourself an entire gun from scratch. I believe that's a marginal project at best. That top strap looks thinner than my Colt's.

I've certainly invested more money in a couple of projects than they'll EVER be worth, so I can hardly criticize someone from doin' the same... but, take it from someone that knows at least this much: It's not nice knowing one has over $1,000 in a $150 shotgun, that STILL should not be fired. (looks good over the mantel tho'); has over $800 in outside labor and parts in $500 rifle, PLUS 100s of hours of my own labor in the same gun (ok, and yeah it's a heck of a shooter, but... so are a lot of other rifles of the same make/model), Over $600 i& hundreds of hours in a project that's still a few hundred dollars and over a hundred hours from being complete... I do believe that even if you do it yourself, you'll be far more upside down that I am.

Seriously, look up the contact info for the three gunsmiths that are nationally recognized for their work on sixguns, and see if you can get a quote for restoring that... thing to shooting condition: (Bowen, Clements & Harton). If they decline, I'd take a hint... it's either not cost effective, or even remotely doable. Find yourself a good used 3-screw Ruger .357 and keep that piece to show just how far folks would go to be 15th in the world.

[Pete44ru]

I can not sleeve the barrel, the barrel is made of aluminum and can not be sleeved. I will have to buy a new barrel off of fle-bay.

Bob - Please consider that many here have been working on guns for a loooong time (over 45 years in my case), and your statement is exactly what we're talking about.


Original Ruger barrels, and no others besides air/pellet guns AFAIK, are made of aluminum (or brass/bronze) - they're made of steel.
If that bbl's aluminum, it's an aftermarket addition, and MUST be replaced.

If you want to re-convert the BH .45 wax gun back to .357, a .357 bbl, an Old Model .357 cylinder & Old Model BH hammer would need to be purchased & fitted - period.



.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Why all the bother to make something out of nothing?------------Sixgun

I think the idea is just as a learning experience and to see what is possible.

Folks ask me all the time, "what does it take to become a gunsmith?" The answer is you can buy the books, buy the tools and go to the schools but the reality is it's a series of very expensive mistakes you hope to never repeat!!!!

[Blaine]

but the reality is it's a series of very expensive mistakes you hope to never repeat!!!!

"Stuff"....just like being married...

[44-40 Willy]

Looks like somebody didn't like the answers he got here, took his ball and went home.

the reality is it's a series of very expensive mistakes you hope to never repeat!!!!

I think that's true in every profession. But as most gunsmiths I've ever been around work by themselves, I don't imagine that they don't have anyone else around to learn from other's mistakes and have to make them themselves.

[DPris]

Now that he's withdrawn participation, I'll say this is a textbook case of somebody with no clue about guns making the mistake of thinking all it takes to do advanced master-class gunsmithing is a machinists course and a few "simple" questions on an Internet forum.

Accepting encouragement from some responders without demanding the same credentials (or passing the same "test") from them as he does from those who give him cautionary and opposing views is icing on the cake.
Agree with him, you're OK.
Disagree with him, prove you're worth listening to.

My very competent local guy of 25+ years experience won't weld on a Ruger frame, or any other frame.
He sends welding to a specialist.
He also won't fabricate an entire hammer.
He knows very well the risks involved in killing a frame by doing it wrong.
He does, however, know what timing is, that it's a pawl (not a "claw") that rotates the cylinder, and how to set up a new hammer with a safe trigger pull in installation, none of which can be said of Bob.

That sad wreck of what used to be a nice Ruger is beyond any practical resurrection.
If he goes through with it, the only hope is that nobody gets hurt.
Denis

[Sixgun]

This guy is a tart and I'm amazed as why anyone would attempt to give thought to answer his question.

Bob the Harley dude asks a question that was very involved and required lots of expertise that probably no one here can fully answer. It was quite like going to a bunch of shade tree mechanics and asking, "Whats the proper way to rebuild a big block chevy and I want it balanced and blueprinted, stroked, nitrous, a blower added and I also need to know what gears I should run and what stall converter needs to be installed. And where do I get the parts and how much do they cost?"

He fires up many here and then hits the road..........tart, plain and simple. You can add "Nobody" to the list. He is probably his brother......bad genes.

The gun he had was JUNK..........real JUNK...worse than a worn out top break suicide special in .32 short. Then again, it probably was not his gun as his felony convictions keep him (or "it") from owning a real gun..................LIKE WE DO.

And then look at his name...bobthemotorcycle...tart I tell 'ya...tart -----------------Sixgun

That's right bobthemororcycle.......you probably voted for obama

[pwl44m]

Hey Six, Ur holding back. What do U really think of nobody ?
Perry
P.S. I couldn't help but think that Machinist school surely teaches a little bit about Metallurgy and different types and hardness of such. Seems like all his questions should have been answered in school. Just Me !!

[Blaine]

"Life is tough. It's even tougher when you're not using your head except for your hat"

[AJMD429]

Folks ask me all the time, "what does it take to become a gunsmith?" The answer is you can buy the books, buy the tools and go to the schools but the reality is it's a series of very expensive mistakes you hope to never repeat!!!!

Kind of like, er, uhh, well. . . becoming a doctor. . . .

(...there is a reason they call it 'practicing' medicine... )

Actually I sorta feel sorry for the guy, as I've gone and asked a bunch of folks I presumed knew more than I did how to do something that was probably just as foolish, although probably safer, and had my fine ideas shredded before my eyes. I didn't do it to 'provoke' anyone, but just because I was curious and had a project in mind. And of course I like the 'encouraging' answers best, although mostly I listened to them all, tried to sort out who really knew what they were talking about (hard to do sometimes - the self-assurance and vocabulary of some folks doesn't necessarily correlate with their knowledge). There ARE many times the "you can't do that" crowd is just echoing obsolete dogma, and a novice can't necessarily tell that at first, so they may ask a lot of 'whys' and why nots'. Some of the smartest and most life-saving innovations in medicine happened when a medical student who thought his M.D. meant he suddenly knew everything there was to know just went out and did something the more experienced doctors said couldn't be done.

Anyway, when I've been in BobTheMotorCycle's position, I remember it as very humbling, and hard to back out of the conversation gracefully, on the one hand trying to 'save face', yet on the other hand trying to politely thank those who just told me I had dog turds for brains. Personally I'd probably keep a gun like that as a wax-shooter, or more likely sell it. There are lots of OTHER potentially difficult and dangerous projects I'm sure I could dream up, though. . .

[Blaine]

I was more than willing to help with the "interpersonal relating" part....

[Old Savage]

This did not seem real from the outset.

[olyinaz]

Well, it's too bad but he brought it on himself. Still, I wish more folks would just clamp it shut and move along vs. saying something nasty. He may have been a tard, but then again he may have just been too much thrust and not enough vector. Some of us are willing to work with a junior jet jock like that and maybe rehab him into a steely eyed missile man vs. an accident looking for a location. Now we'll never know. I find that to be unnecessary and a waste.

Just me talkin'

[AJMD429]

. . . I wish more folks would just clamp it shut and move along vs. saying something nasty. He may have been a tard, but then again he may have just been too much thrust and not enough vector. Some of us are willing to work with a junior jet jock like that and maybe rehab him into a steely eyed missile man vs. an accident looking for a location. Now we'll never know. I find that to be unnecessary and a waste.

Well said.

I like the phrase "too much thrust and not enough vector", too; I'll be waiting for an opportunity to use that one (but it probably won't quite work in an office full of women)...

It's kind of like when someone walks into a gun-shop; even if they are wet behind the ears and/or they think they know more than we think they know, what becomes of them depends on how we react. One way there is a chance they will learn something, and eventually grow to appreciate and enjoy firearms, and even become experienced and knowledgeable - the other way and they just become one more person who thinks the 'gun culture' is a bunch of mean redneck Bambi-killers. It isn't as rewarding on a forum of course, but sometimes it is a rewarding challenge to take some young kid who is doubtless headed towards the gang-banger crowd, and see if you can turn him into a kid with some sense and responsibility. Many of us take pride in doing that kind of things through various civic groups or our Church. Done it various ways with several kids (and an adult or two) over the years, sometimes a shared-interest in 'guns' was the vehicle that I used to get some kid who was out shooting road-signs and songbirds, and turn him into an ethical and safety-conscious hunter.

I know you can't just let someone go blow a gun up and hurt themselves or others, but . . . what olyinaz said. . .

[Griff]

I got a dose of the "you're stupid and obviously don't know what you're doin'" over on the 1911 forum. Coulda got upset, but see no reason to justify myself and my choices to a bunch of folks that I, 1 - don't know, 2 - have no clue what real world experience they have, 3 - have never had to run one-handed 1911 drills.

Interestingly, none of the guns I've ever used in competition ever had and extended slide stop, as I can use both hands, but for this single carry piece, it's worn that one since it was new, cause it went from the store the department 'smith to get qualified.

Anyone who gets their panties all wadded up over a thing like this probably needs the reality check. And a copule of you were a little rough.

BTW, what's "vector" as used above? I got an idea, but wonder if means something else in aeronautics.

[DPris]

Griff,
Vectors used to be used heavily by RCA many years ago, it's an old term.

You've never heard of an RCA Vector?
Denis

[Blaine]

Griff,
Vectors used to be used heavily by RCA many years ago, it's an old term.

You've never heard of an RCA Vector?
Denis

"Gibbs Head Smack"

[Griff]

Griff,
Vectors used to be used heavily by RCA many years ago, it's an old term.

You've never heard of an RCA Vector?
Denis

"Gibbs Head Smack"

Doesn't seem to fit into the context above. Neither does Fender's.

[Blaine]

Griff,
Vectors used to be used heavily by RCA many years ago, it's an old term.

You've never heard of an RCA Vector?
Denis

"Gibbs Head Smack"

Doesn't seem to fit into the context above. Neither does Fender's.

I was sure that was a pun on RCA Victor...A vector is a heading from where you are located.....

[olyinaz]

BTW, what's "vector" as used above? I got an idea, but wonder if means something else in aeronautics.

Simply stated: direction. For an image in your head, picture a bottle rocket with the stick removed.

----

"Did you get the vector, Victor?"

"Roger, Roger."

[Old Savage]

"too much thrust and not enough vector" as in 429 Mustang.

Well, there is also a lot to be learned from throwing ideas into an open forum. Particularly if they are not all that well thought out and presented boldly with little regard for the info being received.

Nobody seems to know where "bob" calls home - he's drifted out of town and left us all alone. He certainly wasn't kind of quiet and shy and what he meant all? We don't know why.

[Sixgun]

There's big difference in asking a blind question from a blind man and a question coming from an individual that's supposed to know the answer.

I never did have patience with any sociopathic lazy bum or one that takes advantage. This is the type of guy where you could spend 2 hours answering his question and he would not even thank you.

I'm from the East, we learn these things fast about people.----------Sixgun

[nemhed]

I personally was siding with Bobthemotorcycle (Nobody) on this one, assuming he was being sincere. Did he not say this was his DAD'S GUN he was rebuilding? After all, anything that's been built can be rebuilt. It's not like he came on here stating "I want to build a Saturn V rocket and strap my dad's Model T to it and fly to Mars". His initial post was pretty much immediately attacked, and "you're an idiot, don't do it" was not the answer he was looking for. I haven't bothered searching for any of his 200 posts, maybe he had already been peeing in everyone's Wheaties prior to this. IMHO, some of us here should probably tone down the old curmudgeon act a few notches and try to embrace the inner 12 year old instead. Relax everybody, it's just the internet.

[7.62 Precision]

Well, he came in with an attitude that was disappointing to me, that is, while not more appropriate, at least more usual on some of the other forums where the wanabe delta force basement-dwelling video gamers hang out. Maybe it is a result of 8 months or so of dealing with hostile and often clueless customers through this last panic, but I am burnt out on people with this kind of attitude.

He was initially given good advice and was not ridiculed or belittled. He responded inappropriately.

Now I don't know any of you guys personally, as far as I know, but I feel like I know some of you a bit through this forum. When I come tho this forum, I feel like a third-grader hanging out with college students. If I show up with a poor idea, and one of you explains exactly why it is a poor idea, I hope I would be man enough to say, "Thanks, I didn't know that," and revise my plans appropriately. It wouldn't be the first time I found out I had a stupid idea, for sure.

I was personally very offended by the comments he made to some of you guys, more so than if he had made the same to me. If he continues through life like that, it will be a rough life of his own making . . .

[GoatGuy]

I personally was siding with Bobthemotorcycle (Nobody) on this one, assuming he was being sincere. Did he not say this was his DAD'S GUN he was rebuilding? After all, anything that's been built can be rebuilt. It's not like he came on here stating "I want to build a Saturn V rocket and strap my dad's Model T to it and fly to Mars". His initial post was pretty much immediately attacked, and "you're an idiot, don't do it" was not the answer he was looking for. I haven't bothered searching for any of his 200 posts, maybe he had already been peeing in everyone's Wheaties prior to this. IMHO, some of us here should probably tone down the old curmudgeon act a few notches and try to embrace the inner 12 year old instead. Relax everybody, it's just the internet.

+1. I've never met and surely don't know "bobthemotorcycle", but I have seen most if not all his previous posts and/or replies here. Just curious mostly, since his sig line indicated he lives in Bella Vista, AR, which is not too far up the road from my place. Never read anything controversial, hostile, or of a 'tart' nature (as per "6"), from him. In the past his participation mostly just consisted of offering his comments and experiences as most do here. He seemed enthusiastic, encouraging and pleasant.

That said, I would guess we've read the last from him as seemingly he, rightly in my opinion, felt he was being put down, challenged and ridiculed by those who responded in a somewhat hostile and/or unnecessarily pedantic manner. Granted, his replies were not helpful, but to me came off as more defensive than offensive.

Seemingly, more recently than in past years, there is more of this aggressive attitude directed to those posting less often than our "regulars" do. It's a shame really and doesn't bode well to encourage more participation on this remarkable site. As an example of this, Terry Murbach was given all kinds of “stuff” until some here were made aware that his long standing experience in our “culture” was vast. Now he’s respected, as is appropriate, since those formerly unaware members have learned he’s a man of some note. Some here might do well to look before they leap,…hmmm.
Just my 2 cents worth, but as a relative old timer here, with an embarrassingly low post count, I offer my thoughts for consideration,…or not.

[Blaine]

It might "only be the internet", but some will take anything they read as the gospel.....He was fixing to use a controlled 15,000 psi explosion in an unsuitable container...No offense, but when I get advise (even when I ask for it) I'll check it out in a few places....I wish he'd come back...I sort of liked the guy....Had grit.

Just one thing; was Nobody and Bob the same person? So, he had two accounts and was using them both?

[pwl44m]

He changed His name to how He felt. He posted quite a bit on the Randall knives and they are all deleted also. I was hoping to go back and get a line on His demeanor but He deleted all His posts.
Perry

[GoatGuy]

Nevermind this reply, thought I was on another posted topic. Senior moment! Yeah sure, never happened to me before, duh.

[DPris]

Well, I used to hear about RCA Vectors all the time when I was a kid, thought they were common knowledge.....

As for my interactions with Bob, I've seen blown revolvers.
I've been at a match where the day before we arrived a guy went to the hospital when his rifle blew on the line.
On a non-gun related note, I knew a man who had lost several fingers on both hands from mis-handling fireworks.
Even small handheld explosions ARE powerful and ARE very dangerous.

I've seen revolvers butchered by even professional "gunsmiths", and I've had handguns come back from even custom shops with glitches that surprised me enormously, since one would assume those working at a well-known shop would be sufficiently knowledgeable & sufficiently experienced to never let such things happen.

I am what you might call sensitive to the inherent dangers of fiddling around with firearms in either ammunition or modifications when the fiddler had no clue. Aside from merely ruining the gun, there's much more at stake.

While some here may have thought Bob's project sounded like fun, I saw an enormous potential for injury with zero chance of success in Bob doing what he was proposing himself, compounded by a demonstrable lack of comprehension regarding what was involved, no knowledge of the way the gun works, no understanding of gunsmithing (which you do not get with a machinist degree), a lack of knowledge of even the parts' names, and a hostile attitude toward those who tried to tell him it was not a good idea.

The photos of that wreck showed a frame so severely mutilated that welding it up was very risky, and it was unsafe to shoot as it was, even with a replacement barrel. Spot welding a bit on a frame is one thing, but adding enough material to double the thickness of the entire topstrap and to restore that weakened lower front corner involves the very definite risk of frame warpage at least, and requires a knowledge of how to deal with that specific steel formulation, and how to produce the correct heat treatment during the process to prevent the end result from stretching, cracking, or fracturing entirely when fired. Too soft, stretching & wear; too brittle, the topstrap can let go, or it could possibly launch the barrel. Among other things.

And that's not even getting into what the sleeved cylinder might do.

That is, to my mind, NOT a project for a total amateur, regardless of his machinist degree.

Fabricating a hammer from scratch involves knowing how to set up the exact dimensions, including notches, and that a trigger pull in "ounces" is a hazard of its own.
Bob showed no signs of understanding the guts of his Blackhawk, and even if he picked up a copy of the Kuhnhausen shop manual I recommended, shop manuals are generally intended to be used by people with SOME basics in gun mechanics behind them, and an ambitious project like he was proposing involving extensive re-construction of that frame, screwing around with sleeving chambers, re-barreling, fabricating a major part (presumably also heat-treating it) like a hammer, and doing action work to fit that hammer correctly, is simply dangerous for a total beginner.

Opinions here may differ, and that's fine, but I saw so much risk for so little gain that I felt strongly enough to get involved.
I'm not a regular poster here, and I occasionally see posts involving gun projects I personally wouldn't bother with, but I understand tinkering, I understand individuality, I understand the desire for something unique, I understand sentimentality, I understand nostalgia, I VERY much understand the idea of spending far more on a gun than it'll ever be worth, so I don't get into those threads.

This went way beyond that, well into dangerous territory, by a guy with no clue, a hostile attitude toward those who tried to educate him, and a tendency to insult those who did try to save his fingers.
That's the way I saw it, and still do.
Denis

[Old Savage]

Don't know a thing about what he was trying to do technically but some here that seem to me to be very knowledgeable were suggesting to him that what he was wanting to do was almost inherently unsafe as he conceived it. That will usually get a strong response of objection here. He seemed from the start to be saying he did not want to hear that. I don't think this is the place to be trying to go on that sort of attitude. Some here not the shrinking violets that will ignore what they think is unsafe for others. Big audience here at times. I have seen at least one gun/blown apart and shooter/hand blown apart from a project he was warned against by a very knowledgeable gunsmith - he found someone that would do it. Safety first if at all possible.

That is just the way it appeared to me as it started and unfolded.

[Blaine]

Most people choose a Church based on how much they agree with the Preacher

[Old Savage]

In that context I guess there was just not much "Who is on the Lord's side?" for that idea.

[Sixgun]

Look here guys. This is what Terry Murbach wrote. Terry's was the first response.

"DO YOU WANT IT ALL IN FOUR SENTANCES OR DO YOU WANT THE BOOK ??"

Upon reading the question and before reading what Terry said, I thought the same thing.

The guy was playing with you all. I knew it from the get-go. He knew it would be a massive thinking project and sat back and laughed at the ones who gave it honest thought and took 15 minutes to type it out. (nothing personal to you fine dudes who did answer )

Anybody who has been here long enough will know I have spent a lot of time answering questions on the old Winchesters, Colts, and the ammo that feeds 'em, even from guys who have ONE post.....and answer 'em right. No brag, but I have learned something after 40 years of eating, sleeping, and breathing these guns and I'm happy to impart what I have learned to those who are starting out.

This guy was playing and I knew it and I responded in a KIND way because if he was in my face or in my company with the guys I hang with, he would have been shown his car keys and the map that leads to his home with a few lumps as a reminder that you don't fool with people like that.

Like I said earlier, I'm from the East where we pick these personalities out easy. You come here and try to make an azz out of individuals and they will be told in a nice way, (that works) the way Hobie demands. ------------Sixgun

Another thing, who in their right mind would call themselves "bob the motorcycle". And how was he able to change all of his posts to "NOBODY"?

[horsesoldier03]

This guy is a tart and I'm amazed as why anyone would attempt to give thought to answer his question.

Bob the Harley dude asks a question that was very involved and required lots of expertise that probably no one here can fully answer. It was quite like going to a bunch of shade tree mechanics and asking, "Whats the proper way to rebuild a big block chevy and I want it balanced and blueprinted, stroked, nitrous, a blower added and I also need to know what gears I should run and what stall converter needs to be installed. And where do I get the parts and how much do they cost?"

He fires up many here and then hits the road..........tart, plain and simple. You can add "Nobody" to the list. He is probably his brother......bad genes.

The gun he had was JUNK..........real JUNK...worse than a worn out top break suicide special in .32 short. Then again, it probably was not his gun as his felony convictions keep him (or "it") from owning a real gun..................LIKE WE DO.

And then look at his name...bobthemotorcycle...tart I tell 'ya...tart -----------------Sixgun

That's right bobthemororcycle.......you probably voted for obama

SIX

The bottom comment totally made me laugh! You being the big union fan I was sure you voted for Obama!

[Sixgun]

That's right bobthemororcycle.......you probably voted for obama

SIX

The bottom comment totally made me laugh! You being the big union fan I was sure you voted for Obama![/quote]

Ha! That's a good one! Not me on the Obama vote. Out of 160 employees, there are TWO Republicans in the plant...me and my bud. Call the hall in Philly, ask for the president, Danny Grace He will tell you all about me. Teamsters Local 830

If you worked where I work and without a union, you would be used up like a wet rag. Management there has no mercy. People who bad mouth unions wish they belonged to one.-----------6

[Mac in Mo]

I thought the guy was asking odd questions. He seemed to be itching for confrontation from the git- go, due to some of his responses. His behavior seemed very trollish from my perspective. However, IF he was sincere, then I hate to see him go, but that's his option.


Kevin

[Sixgun]

I hate to see him go, but that's his option.
Kevin

Na...let him go.....there's enough weirdos in the world to deal with. Schools, courts, and liberals are making them at record pace.......its up to us to show them the road to hit.--------6

[Mac in Mo]

True enough, Sixgun.

Kevin

[Old Savage]

Baffles me what folks want to bend over backward for sometimes. This is one of those. The question and approach seemed ridiculous from the get go.

[Mescalero]

It seems odd to me that no one has commented on this
But people tend to write like they speak,
He used termonology,
sentence structure,
spelling,
etc,
Like English was a second language,
I thought from his opening post that he was an agent provocatuer,
of what or whom, I do not know.

[awp101]

"Did you get the vector, Victor?"

"Roger, Roger."

We have clearance Clarence.


The white zone is for loading and unloading only....

[awp101]

He used termonology,
sentence structure,
spelling,
etc,
Like English was a second language,

Hell, I've been accused of that but I suppose Texan is my first language anyway...

[Mescalero]

I'm trying to be serious here and your breaking my you know what,
I went to school in Texas, and I don't do sentence structure like that.
You do not either, that guy was really different.

[AJMD429]

I thought the guy was asking odd questions. He seemed to be itching for confrontation from the git- go, due to some of his responses. His behavior seemed very trollish from my perspective.

I guess since I only 'participate' on about three forums, I don't really understand the whole "troll" thing...

What exactly IS a 'troll'...?

If their 'thing' is to provoke controversial discussion, why would they do that...?

I could see logging on to a 'pro-gun' site and provoking them to waste their time arguing with an 'anti-gun' comment, to pre-occupy them into spending time re-hashing the same old arguments on the forum vs. doing something useful like going to a city-council meeting or writing a politician or newspaper (i.e. 'troll - distract your enemy into wasting resources on a faux battle).....but WHY would they do it about building a certain kind of gun or whatever.....????? No political or economic strategy there, and no real ego-flattering they're going to get out of it.

Do they just like being insulted...?

I think I'm missing something, because all the time I see new posters being accused of being 'trolls', yet sometimes/usually they just seem to me to be ordinary people who are perhaps asking dumb questions or picking the wrong sub-forum to ask a smart question, or whatever. Without some kind of understandable 'motive', I have a hard time knowing when to think they are being 'suspicious' for being a 'troll'...

[Mac in Mo]

Mescolaro nailed it with his description. I don't hang out on a lot of different forums either, Doc, but to me a troll is someone who comes on board and asks goofy questions or makes outrageous statements, getting some sort of thrill with the stuff that gets stirred up. I takes all kinds, I guess.


Kevin

[1894c]

WHAT HAPPENED HERE..."nobody" deleted all of his comments and posts...this is like rolling up to a crime scene, plenty of evidence (both forensic and circumstantial), but there's "NO...BODY"....that's what I get for going to work... :)

[7.62 Precision]

That's right bobthemororcycle.......you probably voted for obama

SIX

The bottom comment totally made me laugh! You being the big union fan I was sure you voted for Obama!

Ha! That's a good one! Not me on the Obama vote. Out of 160 employees, there are TWO Republicans in the plant...me and my bud. Call the hall in Philly, ask for the president, Danny Grace He will tell you all about me. Teamsters Local 830

If you worked where I work and without a union, you would be used up like a wet rag. Management there has no mercy. People who bad mouth unions wish they belonged to one.-----------6

[/quote]

There is a need for unions, to some extent. Like every other type of organization, there is a potential for them to overstep what they should be doing and many do. Many have stopper really caring about the members and focus on pulling more money in for political agendas, so I can understand why people are upset with the unions, and some are really bad.

On the other hand, I worked union for many years. Benefits were good, the union I was a member of was very reasonable with the companies - it a company fired a guy he was fired. In that industry, going from one job to the next, one company to the next, working union keeps your benefits consistent. While you could buy better health and retirement benefits if you got the $24+ per hour benefits in cash, most people do not have the discipline to take care of that stuff themselves.

Pretty much everyone I have worked with who were union members in the laboror's or operator's unions were decidedly conservative (I can't remember anyone who was not), and most teamsters working construction, too, so don't assume that people are liberal because they are union members.

Years ago when wages for a driller in AK were about $26 per hour and about $18 per hour in benefits, I looked into drilling when I was in a right-to-work state going to college. The going rate was $6-$8 per hour for drillers, no benefits.

I got injured in Iraq and could not afford to keep up the union dues, so I lost everything I had payed into for all those years, but it wasn't a bad deal, and no one told me how to vote.

[Sixgun]

Ha! Unions and "Nobody the Troll". Almost 6 pages...amazing!

I still cannot understand how he replaced all of his posts from " bobbythemotorcycledude " to "Nobody". I thought only Hobie could do that........................wait a minute..........................Hobie, are you "Bob the motorcycle dude"? ------------------6

[Mescalero]

Hobie could not write like that if he tried!!!!!!