POLITICS: Sorry Junior, Here's how your Party sees you.

[Old Ironsights]

Rob those who earn to pay for the up keep of the lazy. Typical Socialist thinking.

I dont agree with most of what Junior comes out with but thats one I do.
Its not robbery, its taxation & if a guy who'll never make $250,000 a year workings gotta pay then a guy that collects $250,000 in dividends shouldn't get a cut. Fair & equitable.

Not so sure about the social medicine but I think if we scrapped welfare for anybody who could work it could be funded easy enough. Course we couldn't go careing for 12 million illegal immigrants either.
Its hard, I think its best if folks care for themselves but at the same time, as a community we have a responsibility to those that truly need help. Problem is theres chunks of our population that live off the system & bog it down so its hard on those that really need it. No easy answer.

FWIW: If I didn't have to pay Taxes to support other people's lifestyles/healthcare, I could afford to pay for healthcare for my wife (who is currently FORCED to be on Medicare) PLUS healthcare for me PLUS give money to charity PLUS pay for those bits of infrastructure I use.

On Fairness in Tax: I oppose ALL "loopholes" in tax. I'm a FLAT TAX advocate. I'd prefer that tax to be ZERO, but I'd accept Ceaser's Tithe... so long as EVERYONE paid it.

On Eschatology: Ragnarok and Roll Baby.

[Jayhawker]

When the choice becomes a nanny state or a police state, neither of which I'd like to see, I guess I'll stand with Tubby in the front of the bus. Wouldn't want to make it too easy for them.

[Hobie]

One either supports evil or opposes it. If they can't track illegal immigrants how they gonna keep up with my prostate exams?

Which reminds me, I gotta get a physical and pay my Tricare...

[BlaineCGarverakaTubbyTuba]

One either supports evil or opposes it. If they can't track illegal immigrants how they gonna keep up with my prostate exams?

Which reminds me, I gotta get a physical and pay my Tricare...

Ebay

[Buffboy]

Rob those who earn to pay for the up keep of the lazy. Typical Socialist thinking.

I dont agree with most of what Junior comes out with but thats one I do.
Its not robbery, its taxation & if a guy who'll never make $250,000 a year workings gotta pay then a guy that collects $250,000 in dividends shouldn't get a cut. Fair & equitable.

Not so sure about the social medicine but I think if we scrapped welfare for anybody who could work it could be funded easy enough. Course we couldn't go careing for 12 million illegal immigrants either.
Its hard, I think its best if folks care for themselves but at the same time, as a community we have a responsibility to those that truly need help. Problem is theres chunks of our population that live off the system & bog it down so its hard on those that really need it. No easy answer.

You ever actually figured out how taxes are collected on dividends? THEY ARE TAXED AS INCOME, always have been. That's not what the complaint is. What dividend taxes are is: they are taxed AGAIN as dividend(or as capitol gains) taxes. You are paying taxes TWICE on the same income.

On a completely different note. Economics 101: Taxes are NEVER PAID by "Corporations". Taxes on corporations are paid by their customers. Guess who that is?

[gamekeeper]

Being from the other side of the pond I suppose I shouldn't really reply. But I find this post fascinating!

I can see now, how brother could fight brother in the War of Northern Aggression.

It's good that so many of you care enough to debate this argument. Here in the UK apathy rules and we get politicians that would make even Joe Starlin seem sane!!

[Old Savage]

Interesting to hear outside thought, because we really are lined up on sides - the dems are as much an enemy as Al Kida.

They are the ones that want to take my stuff and rights. @^$^&^^&*&^s!

[AmBraCol]

Being from the other side of the pond I suppose I shouldn't really reply. But I find this post fascinating!

I can see now, how brother could fight brother in the War of Northern Aggression.

It's good that so many of you care enough to debate this argument. Here in the UK apathy rules and we get politicians that would make even Joe Starlin seem sane!!

I live way south of the US southern border but am a US citizen. What I've observed is that too many US citizens residing within the borders of the Republic are also ignorant and apathetic. And when you tell them that they say "I don't know what that means, nor do I care."

I've lived my life under one socialistic government or another. A few things I've learned are as follows.

• You can't tax a nation into prosperity.
  Robbing the rich to give to the poor causes the rich to take their business elsewhere - thus leaving the poor dependent upon an inexistent means of existence.
  Government can be counted on to create more problems than it can solve.
  Folks are better off being self sufficient than depending on anyone for their basic needs.
  Personal responsibility must be taught from the cradle onwards.
  Folks should be held accountable for their life choices.

Where I live the government takes huge cuts from "the rich" and subsidizes the poor. The result being waste amongst the poor while folks like me turn off a light before walking down the hall and turning on another. It's not uncommon to see every 100 watt bulb, TV, Radio etc turned on in the poor areas of town - and darkness in the windows of the "rich" folks. Because we're getting hit with a huge increase in the cost of the electricity we use. We also tend to have low wattage fluorescents, not from a sense of "greenness" but rather as self defense from high light bills - such a bulb can pay for itself in just a few months.

I think everyone should pay their own way. Plain and simple. And while I support the end of "welfare" I also support the end of subsidies across the board. If you can't afford to produce then you need to find another line of work/production instead of depending on government to bail you out and keep you running.

[Old Ironsights]

...On a completely different note. Economics 101: Taxes are NEVER PAID by "Corporations". Taxes on corporations are paid by their customers. Guess who that is?

Very true. The idea that Corporations are "persons" is absurd.

For a Corporation, any and all taxes are simply a cost of doing business - no different than buying steel/plastic/electricity.

Only REAL "persons" - i.e. You and Meare unable to pass on the cost of Taxation.

When this FACT is taken into account, the average American would make EIGHT TIMES his current income in Real Dollars if all taxes were removed.

Bread would cost $0.30 again.

Consider this from "American Heritage Dictionary" (and Mr Smith):

SO.CIAL.ISM. A social system in which the means of producing and distributing goods are owned collectively and political power is exercised by the whole community.

Keeping in mind that this definition was almost certainly written by those I've proposed that we start calling socialists, it's probably advisable to examine it closely. In the first place, socialism is not "a social system" but an economic and political system rooted in the ethical notion (if you can stomach dignifying it with such a name) that rights are additive: that two individuals, or two million, somehow have more rights than a single individual.
That's hard to figure, since the only right any of us has is to be left alone.
Second, please note that what they never seem to get around to telling you -- until it's too late -- is that the ultimate "means of producing and distributing goods" is the individual human being. Without that, all of the industrial machinery, all of the rippling wheatfields, that such a phrase usually calls to mind are meaningless. What they're saying here in their own cute left-wingy way, is that we as individuals are what ends up being "owned collectively".
Third -- and a very interesting grab it represents, too -- when "political power is exercised by the whole community", we don't call it "socialism", we call it "democracy". More cuteness. I haven't witnessed this sort of shuffle since Dr. Sun Yat Sen, the progenitor of Mao Tsu Tung, claimed, in an American money tour, merely to be a "democrat" instead of the Marxoid trash he really was.

[horsesoldier03]

Slowly but surely the middle class is dying away. When it does, our society as we know it will self destruct. IMO, when it comes to the end of time we will have reverted back to the day when there were 2 classes of citizens, lords and phesants. I think we all know that that wont work. It will result in once free men becoming slaves. From the sounds of it, BRUCE B would have us beleive that anyone who isnt rich is trying to live off of the wealthy and that we are all lazy. Personnally I am not rich or lazy and would fall into the dying middle class. One thing they should remember before they decide to attempt to place dominance the phesant will be a skilled advasary when they attempt to disarm him.

[Ysabel Kid]

Being from the other side of the pond I suppose I shouldn't really reply. But I find this post fascinating!

I can see now, how brother could fight brother in the War of Northern Aggression.

It's good that so many of you care enough to debate this argument. Here in the UK apathy rules and we get politicians that would make even Joe Starlin seem sane!!

Game Keeper - you got the name of the war correct! Didn't know it was known that way outside of the USA!!!

I'm not originally from South Carolina (raised in Indiana), but very proud to call it home. Yes, I do see another rift coming - if those of us who love freedom are willing to defend it. Apathy rules the roost here as well...

[BruceB]

... From the sounds of it, BRUCE B would have us beleive that anyone who isnt rich is trying to live off of the wealthy and that we are all lazy. Personnally I am not rich or lazy and would fall into the dying middle class. One thing they should remember before they decide to attempt to place dominance the phesant will be a skilled advasary when they attempt to disarm him.

Neither am I "rich"; but then "rich" is a relative term. It is defined by some as merely being someone with more than you. AmBraCol has pointed out that the "poor" here would be considered "rich" where he resides. For example our "poor" have automobiles, his poor do not.
There is, however, a "class" of professional victims in this country who seem to feel they are "owed" a living by those who are employed, or self sufficient.
(BTW, did you know they actually hunt phesants in many states? )

[BlaineCGarverakaTubbyTuba]

Game Keeper - you got the name of the war correct!

Drank the KoolAid, didja?

[C. Cash]

Game Keeper - you got the name of the war correct!

Drank the KoolAid, didja?

Oh man.....I can hear the guns of Fort Sumter crankin up.... One war at a time fellas!

[Old Ironsights]

Slowly but surely the middle class is dying away. When it does, our society as we know it will self destruct. IMO, when it comes to the end of time we will have reverted back to the day when there were 2 classes of citizens, lords and phesants. I think we all know that that wont work. It will result in once free men becoming slaves. From the sounds of it, BRUCE B would have us beleive that anyone who isnt rich is trying to live off of the wealthy and that we are all lazy. Personnally I am not rich or lazy and would fall into the dying middle class. One thing they should remember before they decide to attempt to place dominance the phesant will be a skilled advasary when they attempt to disarm him.

I'm not a phesant... I'm a ruffled grouse. (or an annoyed curmudgeon, I can't remember which...)

[Ysabel Kid]

Game Keeper - you got the name of the war correct!

Drank the KoolAid, didja?

Nope, but the more I study the "American Civil War" the more I come to the conclusion that this was the start of central government tyranny. The states were meant to be independent and sovereign - the Civil War ended that. We're all paying the price now...