Which levergun for Daughter(for deer)in .44mag or .45 Colt ?

[madman4570]

What do you boys think??

Was thinking a 1894 Marlin Cowboy in .45 Colt

[DixieBoy]

Madman - The one and only Marlin Cowboy in .45 Colt that I've had the pleasure to handle was an absolute sweetheart. Wish I had grabbed it up when I had the chance. When I'm back on my feet financially that one's on my short list. - DixieBoy

[AJMD429]

Winchesters are beautiful and classic, and Rossis are handy and slick, but I'd go with Marlins, as they have more sight options easily installed, and assuming she's relatively new to the hobby/sport/obsession, she may change her mind about sights several times before settling on what she likes best.

As far as the 'Cowboy' or not - if she's relatively long and strong in structure, the heavier and longer rifle will probably point well and 'hang on the target' better, but if she's skinny/petite, she may do best with a really short and light gun (consider the .357 Mag Marlin 1894 in that case, too, as it is much smaller than the .44/.45 ones of any configuration, or one of the 16" Rossi leverguns in .45 Colt or .44 Mag).

• (...I'd ask that you post pictures of her so we can better advise you, but that would get OS going... )

As for the .44 Mag or .45 Colt; either should be fine; if she's a newbie, it might be easier to find factory loads for .45 Colt that are 'light', but you could use .44 Specials in the .44 for the same purpose. The other and BIG issue would be getting properly constructed 'hunting' bullets in either round from the factory in other than a relatively 'hot' load. If she's not a newbie, then it won't matter...!

My .44 Mag just THUMPS whitetails with 240 grain Winchester JSP factory loads - through both sides; bone if necessary. I suspect .45 Colt in similar loadings would be nearly identical (might be harder to find similar bullets in factory loads?). If you reload for her (or if she does), then none of this matters, and I'd just go with whatever round she might most likely eventually get a handgun in.

Of course the BEST .44 Mag levergun just has to be the Ruger 96 - it actually is my favorite deer-gun, due to the one-piece stock, short lever-throw, and 4-shot detachable magazine. Hard to find though, and NOT the most beautiful or 'classic' levergun for sure. Too bad they never made them in .45 Colt. . . or .480 Ruger, for that matter. . . !

The Ruger is a tad handier than the regular 1894 .44 Mag or the 20" Rossi; in fact the stock is so short I added a 10/22 extended buttpad (fits fine) to get it to fit my long arms.



But. . . you can't go wrong with a Marlin in .44 Mag or .45 Colt . . . !

[buckeyeshooter]

I would say the most important thing is gun fit. There is zero difference between the cartridges performance wise on deer. If you want to scope it, buy the marlin.

[Rusty]

I'd say the .44 is the way to go since hunting level loads can be purchased at any Wally World. The .45, not so.

[MrMurphy]

The .44 is easy to find ammo for, just fit a good recoil pad. Light rifle, it does smack people some from bench/stand type positions. I had a '77 Marlin 1894 in .44 and it was an excellent 'handy' gun out to about 100m or so.

[FWiedner]

Find examples of each, let her shoot them, and then pick for her own self.

Personally, I'd favor a .357.

[Yodar]

How about a rifle in a rifle cartridge for the lady? If you must have a lever gun, maybe a Savage 99 in .250/3000 with a 4X scope would work. I wish folks would stop using pistol cartridges for something they were never intended. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Blaine]

How about a rifle in a rifle cartridge for the lady? If you must have a lever gun, maybe a Savage 99 in .250/3000 with a 4X scope would work. I wish folks would stop using pistol cartridges for something they were never intended. Just my 2 cents worth.

GASP

[Paladin]

What do you boys think??

Was thinking a 1894 Marlin Cowboy in .45 Colt

Ask her to pick after trying them.

[Griff]

What do you boys think??
Was thinking a 1894 Marlin Cowboy in .45 Colt

Ask her to pick after trying them.

+1
Since you're reloading again... the cartridge difference is negligible. I love the Marlin Cowboy, (finding one might be difficult, I ended up buying a rust bucket and a "Cowboy" barrel and making my own... still in progress). I love my .45 Rossi "Short Rifle". But, the heavy octagon barrel might be a tad heavy depending on the girl's stature. A carbine would be sweet. My son started with a .38 Rossi carbine when he was about 10 and had no troubles handling the gun off-hand or from a rest.

I would also agree with MrMurphy, the .44Mag is quite the kicker from a bench. The .45Colt isn't quite so much.

[AJMD429]

I wish folks would stop using pistol cartridges for something they were never intended. Just my 2 cents worth.

In many areas of the country, you aren't going to legally hunt deer with a "rifle" cartridge, due to the fact that the higher ballistic coefficient bullets typical of cartridges in the .25-30 caliber range make for a long flight path if the bullet misses the target, especially in flat country where there is often not a very postive backstop. The idea is that a low-ballistic-coefficient "pistol" bullet typical of the .35-45 caliber short-action leverguns will have plenty of energy at typical east/midwest deer ranges, yet velocity slows quickly, and subsonic transition instability begins within the next hundred yards or so, rendering the bullet closer to a thrown rock than a deadly missle, should it somehow still be airborne half a mile later. Not a foolproof safety tactic, but judging from some of the buffoons I see out after Bambi each year, I'm glad if the game wardens can keep them mostly using "pistol cartridges"...!

It's worth noting that in many of these areas, the alternatives are ballistically all similar; in Indiana, I've killed deer with a .50 cal muzzleloader, using saboted .430" 240-grain pistol bullets at around 2000 fps, and with a 12-gauge shotgun, using saboted .430" 240-grain pistol bullets at around 1500 fps, and with a Ruger revolver, using non-saboted .430" 240-grain pistol bullets at around 1000 fps. My Marlin .44 Mag levergun is handier, more accurate, rattles less, and is faster to shoot than my Mossberg 500, but spits those .430" 240-grain pistol bullets out at the same 1500 fps.

I've never shot a deer with a .30-06 or .30-30, but would personally choose my .44 Magnum levergun over either one, even if they were legal here, and even if the terrain were perfectly safe for them - the .44 Mag has a plenty-flat trajectory for deer at any range I would encounter one, makes a nice hole through both sides, causes rapid bleeding, good blood trail, quick humane death, and little meat destruction. I'm sure I could find a load in the .30-06 to do that, but not sure what the advantage would be, other than to give the old Garand some Bambi-time*.

In addition to deer hunting in the more densly populated or flat areas of the country, the "pistol caliber leverguns" make dandy home-protection carbines - I'd rather have ten shots of .44 Magnum in a short little Marlin 1894, than six rounds of .30-30, or four rounds of .45-70, if defending my home against two-legs. In bear country, give me the .45-70, though...

*. . . which does sound like a nice thing to do, actually. . .

[Buck Elliott]

"Pistol Cartridges..?"

The "lowly" .32-20, .38-40 and .44-40 were DESIGNED and introduced as Rifle Cartridges, with deer hunting in mind... None of them is easily equivalent to a .44 Mag or heavy .45 Colt load, but all have been used successfully, for decades, as deer cartridges..

That's MY 2 cents worth...!

[Buck Elliott]

As far as which gun to get, let her try several, as has been mentioned..

It is no secret that I prefer the Winchester system over the clubby, ungainly Marlins. The only "advantages" offered by the Marlins are "cleaning from the breech," (big whoopeee...) and the fact that many Marlins carry enough extra lumber in their foreends to enable a hunter to carve off a good pile of shavings, if the weather is cold, and other dry wood may not be available for starting a fire...

I would caution against the '94 Winchester platform for either of the 2 cartridges in question. And would stick to something built on the '92 pattern.. personally, I like the '73 in .45 Colt, for normal "deer" ranges...

That's my other 2 cents worth...

[6pt-sika]

Let us never forget the great Jordan Buck the #1 typical whitetail for many years until Milo Hansen killed his buck 10-15 years ago .

The Jordan buck was killed with a 25-20 although he did shoot it something like 7 times if my memeory serves me .

I had Marlin 1894CB's in 357 , 44-40 , 44 MAG and 45 Colt as well as a couple 1894CCL's (the same thing pretty much with a 20" octagon barrel) in 32-20 , 41 MAG and 44-40 . And while I liked them all I would lean towards the 44 MAG first followed my the 44-40 and third going to the 41 MAG . While I liked the 45 Colt well enough it was never one to really catch me so to speak .

Now with all that being said I had a Marlin 1894P for awhile as well . Thats a 44 MAG with a 16 1/4" ported barrel and I liked that one way better for hunting over the 24" barreled 1894CB in 44 MAG . Incidently I used that little 1894P to take a whitetail at 135 yards one time . To my knowledge that the longest shot on a living deer I ever made with a 44 MAG rifle . In the past I had killed a couple pickup loads of deer with two of the old style Ruger 44R carbines (one of which I still own).

Back when I was OVERRUN with Marlin's I also had a thing called a 336Y . This was a 336 30-30 also with a 16 1/4" barrel and an inch shorter pistol grip stock . You can always swap that stock for a standard LOP 336, 1894 or 1895 stock as well which is what I did . Anyway I had purchased that one for ex wifey #2 and thru working up loads in Scranton at the gunclub I came up with some rather accurate and mild 150 grain loads that I think would be right on time for a younger person .

As a second thought I also had a Marlin 1894FG once upon a time . This one is a 41 MAG with a 20" round barrel . I killed three or so deer with this rifle and it did well enough although I gotta admit I didn't like the deer's lacksadasical attitude after I shot them . Popped them in the lungs they look up for a moment put their head back down and go back to feeding then walk off a few yards and drop over dead .

Anyway my choices for a younger or small framed person would be the 336Y 30-30 followed by the 1894FG 41 MAG followed by the 1894P 44 MAG .

[1894c]

.44Mag...effective...easy to find...easy to reload...and definitely in a Marlin...love the xtra wood fore and aft...just in case you know... :)

[madman4570]

Some very good points you guys(thank you very much for sharing your knowledge)

[DixieBoy]

Buck - Agreed on your points. And I've gotta tell you, you had me laughing hard with your comment about shaving wood off the Marlin foregrip to make shavings for kindling. Now that's funny. Thanks for that one. - DixieBoy

[AJMD429]

The only "advantages" offered by the Marlins are "cleaning from the breech," (big whoopeee...) and the fact that many Marlins carry enough extra lumber in their foreends to enable a hunter to carve off a good pile of shavings, if the weather is cold, and other dry wood may not be available for starting a fire...

I don't care about the breech-cleaning issue, but I do like the Marlin's "few-big-parts" design vs. that of the Winchesters. Kind of the same reason I like my 1911 more than a Glock, even though I know those ugly Glocks just keep on ticking, despite all those little fragile-looking parts inside; and I can't say I've ever had a '92 fall apart into a handful of fragile-looking parts, either. Plus, at least the Winchesters are beautiful guns vs. the Marlins.

I do like the 'extra firewood' feature of the Marlins - maybe they should put that in their marketing...!

[El Chivo]

I think the Marlin 1894 has a noticeably shorter stock which might be more comfortable for her; I think you should let her try them for fit. Rifles with a longer length of pull like a 336 or Win 94 may not be comfortable for her.

I see you're in NYS so I'm assuming it's woods hunting, short shots in timber, so I think a pistol cartridge will be fine. You might consider a .357 because you get less recoil and "boom", and at 25 yards the deer will still be down. To send that bigger projectile downrange will hurt her a lot more. I seem to remember 44 magnum as having recoil similar to 30-30. 357 has been touted as similar to 30-30 in performance at short range, so it's a way to get the same buck for less bang.

As far as I know, Indiana is the only shotgun state that allows pistol cartridge rifles for hunting. The other states don't differentiate between rifle cartridge rifles and pistol cartridge rifles, it's either shotgun only or everything is legal.

[Old Savage]

A matter of taste - Marlin/Winchester. I can easily take a Marlin all apart not so with a Winchester but then never had too. I have cleaned my Winchester 30-30 from the muzzle with a brass muzzle protector for 20+ years 600+ rds - it will still shoot 3/4" inch groups as will good Marlins. My 45 Colt Win is a little finicky about what angle you hold it on in feeding.

[Chuck 100 yd]

.45 or .44 ???? I have several of each.
No deer could tell what one did him in.
Get it and enjoy!!

[Ji in Hawaii]

I'm partial to the 44 mag because I still have the 44 mag Marlin 94 my dad bought me back in 1976. If you don't reload then the 44 would be the easy choice for full house ammo availability. I like the idea of the 357 mag for starting out young shooters, and young ladies the 180 grain loads being more than adequate for deer, and easy on the shoulders. I love my little Winchester 94AE Ranger Compact 357 mag. She feeds all 38 Special and 357 mag loads reliably and is smooth as silk even though the throw is a tad long. Sure a 92 would be nicer but at $230.00 NIB I could not complain especially after replacing the rebounding hammer with a leaf strung halfcock hammer from a '72 vintage gun.

[samb]

My petite wife loves the 45lc in a Rossi, very little recoil.

[madman4570]

Figures I go looking for the daughter and I see--------------------
http://www.rossiusa.com/product-details ... umbseries=


I have read that some leverguns when chambered for the longer cartridge (say like the .44mag,then the shorter .44spl fired in it,those lose accuracy??? Actually was reading about that yesterday in a older Shooting Times Mag(August 2000)Article Model 1892 Rifles for Cowboys by Mike Venturino.

Why not just buy her that .454 and let her shoot .45Colts in it,but if she ever wants to hunt big mean stuff(and can handle it)let a .454 fly?
I want one of those suckers.

Another nice gun in that Mag that did a big spread on was the Ruger Deerfield .44mag

[Old Savage]

Touch off a few of those 454s with the crescent butt plate and tell me what you think. The one I saw shot itself loose. Or let the little lady touch off a few - then hide.

[madman4570]

Touch off a few of those 454s with the crescent butt plate and tell me what you think. The one I saw shot itself loose. Or let the little lady touch off a few - then hide.

You got a point OS
I just saw that (.454 in a lever for around $499 actual price and guess I freaked out)
Lucky I wasn't at a gun show cause I would have bought one on the spot.

I am thinking probably should stay with Marlin or Winchester ????
I know the .44mag has more off the shelf loaded up commercial stuff but since I can handload anyway that .45Colt just keeps a knocking.

Our daughter she is a rugged little gal (5'8" @ 135lbs)in major shape.(even got the 6-pack ab deal going on)
She can bench---2 (20 kilo plates,with the Olympic bar) and she is still very girly looking!
Heck, she has shot the .300 Win Mag! (and liked it)

She's a great kid----(will finish her Science degree in 3.5 years,and with one semester left has a 3.985 average)
Gets her brains from her Dad Looks from her Mom!

Working at the local large Home Center store (for the summer/full time)as the Lawn/Garden specialist (all the guys want to water the plants/or carry bags of mulch for her)

[Griff]

Figures I go looking for the daughter and I see--------------------
http://www.rossiusa.com/product-details ... umbseries=

I have read that some leverguns when chambered for the longer cartridge (say like the .44mag,then the shorter .44spl fired in it,those lose accuracy??? Actually was reading about that yesterday in a older Shooting Times Mag(August 2000)Article Model 1892 Rifles for Cowboys by Mike Venturino.
Why not just buy her that .454 and let her shoot .45Colts in it,but if she ever wants to hunt big mean stuff(and can handle it)let a .454 fly?
I want one of those suckers.
Another nice gun in that Mag that did a big spread on was the Ruger Deerfield .44mag

Who're you buying this rifle for, her or you?
Rossi makes a dandy 20" carbine in all those same calibers, blue or stainless:

With the carbine buttplate, it's generally comfortable for most folks, except in those magnum calibers. Methinks the magnums are just too much in these light carbines. Other folks think they're the cat's meow. The carbine butt is a tad wider and has a gentler curve.

Yes, in target circles, a longer bullet jump, (the space between the bullet as seated in the case and where it engages the rifling), can mean a slight degredation of accuracy. But, it is NOT ALWAYS the case. And there's nothing wrong with loading lighter charges in the longer cases to avoid that. I believe the greater problen is feeding a steady diet of short cases, then loading a full-charge long case without cleaning out the crud. Pressure spike might be catastrophic.

[6pt-sika]

Another nice gun in that Mag that did a big spread on was the Ruger Deerfield .44mag

I've had three of the original Ruger 44R Carbines and still have one . They shoot well out to 100 yards easily enough .

The later Deerfield Carbines I don't care for as much . We've had several in the shop to sell for folks and I've sighted in two of them for other customers . They do well enough but I like the looks of the original Ruger 44 Carbine more .

Killed my first whitetail buck with a Ruger 44R carbine as a matter of fact . My best friend whom I;ve been friends with for over 45 years owns that gun now along with the old Leupold Vari XIII 1.5-5x I mounted on it 35 years ago !

I might add with these Ruger 44 carbines I never saw much need for handloads . Usually the Winchester or Federal 240 grain HP factory loads shot plenty well enough .

[6pt-sika]

We took in a Winchester 94AE Trapper in 44 MAG saturday at the shop . My buddy told me saturday night the gun is NIB . I'm gonna have to look that one over tommorrow and see for myself . I ain't much of a Post 64 Winchester person as far as lever guns are concerned , but this one might be worth my time .

[madman4570]

Thanks guys-----

Can anyone educate me a tad on the Rossi 92 and the Legacy (Puma)---(also its strength for .454 ???)
Is one better than the other.(are they made as well as a new Marlin/Winchester??

I remember Paco liking the .454 Puma 92 back in 2002 and believe he still does from what I have heard ???
But that is just hear say and have not heard much directly from the main man if it still is holding up?

I know the .454 is a powerhouse, however if it is a reliable/well built gun I like the idea of being able to have many power level choices for her.She is a tough kid!
I can see her and her boy friend taking a hunting trip to Africa after College(and dad too and his dad/brother)and would like her to have that option.
Also if she wants to shoot cowboy shoots(that .45 will do too)
Really am thinking 20" length over the 16"

I know my Marlin 336(.35Rem)she shoots and doesn't think it kicks at all!
She is an extremely good shot when I shoot with her,and the boy friend says---(she beats him)
Just turned 21-----told me last week,hey old man guess what I am getting????---she says pointing her finger at me(the Judge)
She's a keeper!

[Griff]

Thanks guys-----
Can anyone educate me a tad on the Rossi 92 and the Legacy (Puma)---(also its strength for .454 ???)
Is one better than the other.(are they made as well as a new Marlin/Winchester??

I understand that the new Puma is built by Armi Sport in Italy. I also hear (no first hand knowledges, but as stated below, I'd contact Nate Kiowa Jones and ask the expert. As far as then new Remlin (Marlin), yes; new Winchester (Miroku), no. But neither of them or Puma offers the .454. And the Pumas and Winchesters are twice the money. IMO (and others"), the 1892 action is stronger than the Marlin. I've loaded my .45 Colt EMF/Rossi up above .44Mag ballistics and other'n the bruise on my shoulder, nada. Ain't doin' a steady diet of those. Not 'cause of the gun... but, me!

I remember Paco liking the .454 Puma 92 back in 2002 and believe he still does from what I have heard ???
But that is just hear say and have not heard much directly from the main man if it still is holding up?
I know the .454 is a powerhouse, however if it is a reliable/well built gun I like the idea of being able to have many power level choices for her. She is a tough kid!

A coupla folks have them. IIRC, Cowboy Tutt does. PM him and ask directly. Email Nate Kiowa Jones of Steve's Guns for any details he may have run across. As the acknowledged Rossi 1892 expert... he's probably your best resource. I've heard of issues, but have no 1st hand experience.

I can see her and her boy friend taking a hunting trip to Africa after College(and dad too and his dad/brother)and would like her to have that option.

Sounds like fun!

Also if she wants to shoot cowboy shoots(that .45 will do too)
Really am thinking 20" length over the 16"

If you're considering Cowboy Action at all, that's the smart choice... stages of fire will call for 8-10 rifle cartridges... mostly 10.

I know my Marlin 336(.35Rem)she shoots and doesn't think it kicks at all!
She is an extremely good shot when I shoot with her,and the boy friend says---(she beats him)
Just turned 21-----told me last week,hey old man guess what I am getting????---she says pointing her finger at me(the Judge)
She's a keeper!

Well... if she's getting "The Judge", then get the .45Colt... always nice to have revolver and rifle chambered the same.

[madman4570]

Good stuff Griff-----------------Thanks!

[86er]

I looked at this a bunch of times to see if I could contribute anything useful. Nothing that hasnt been presented well as far as a 44 or 45 is concerned. Then I re-read where she likes your 35 Rem and shoots it well. My boys have a Win 94 in 357 Mag converted to 360DW. This one has a 16" barrel and a short stock. We started out with 38 Spl that are inexpensive and have virtually no recoil and low noise in this gun. With a aperature sight it shoot them real good at 50 yards. In preparation for hunting we moved up to 357 Mag 158gr JHP. The recoil is still very low, but a limbsaver pad reduced it to barely noticable. This cartridge could take deer with the right bullets. However, the 360DW make it a whole different animal. We have 180 grain bullets going 1924 fps. Hornady XTP, Nosler Partition, Swift A-Frame 180's will all run in the 1900-2000 fps range. We've knocked down a bunch of deer and hogs and much bigger stuff like Addax and Oryx. I used some 200 grain loads at 1995 fps but havent used them on game. This rifle can be scoped with a scout scope or conventional scope. Replacement butt stocks are readily available and inexpensive, so you can have one to fit you and one to fit her or whomever. Of course you could get a longer barrel too if you think you need it. For use in NY this would work well on any deer and a bear if you wanted to use it for such. Ballistics are very close to 35 Rem and terminal performance between the premium 180 bullets (intended for handguns) and the typical 200 gr Remington Core Lokt are so similar I cant really tell any difference. So while it is not a 40 something, it does offer 3 cartridge choices much like 45 colt cowboy loads, 45 colt rifle loads and 454 Cas. in a rifle chambered as such. But this is in a short, medium weight compact package with recoil that a 55 pound 6 year old kid can manage, and with a choice of sights, aperature, scout scope or conventional scope. Just a thought ...