38-55 loads

[pwl44m]

Marlin 1893, bp barrel
Starline brass
Bear tooth 265 gr fngc
powders on hand , Unique,Trail Boss,2400, and a couple others
Press mounted
Dies and ready to go
I started through the process and discovered that I don't have any large rifle Primers. plenty of small rifle and small and large pistol.
I am going nuts trying to find data for the bullets that I have, can't seem to find anything for the 265gr,everything from 249 to 255.I have perused websites and back posts on this forum.
The bullets measure 380 and in driving them through the Bore I get a slight groove,probably should have removed the gas check first. I want to use these bullets up. I went ahead and loaded up a Dummy round and it cycles perfect so I'm happy there. I want to shoot this thing and keep hitting snags.
some Sites indicate that if the bullet weight is close it is ok, I'm not comfy with that. I am working with a very old gut but is seems really tite and mechanically sound.
so if someone could recommend a load for this old Girl it would be appreciated. I will buy more bullets if I have to but there are not any to be found local. Checked with Sportsmans warehouse yesterday and they have no bullets for this cal. Mail order is robably the only option.
sorry for rambling- Perry

[earlmck]

Perry, I don't have anything in my load book 'cause I've never loaded 38-55. But my old "Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets" gives some loads for their 375296, 265 gr. GC bullet:

2400, 16.7 gr., 1490 fps
Unique, 9.9 gr., 1305 fps.

This book dates back before there were any new manufactured 38-55's around, so it's a cinch these loads were fired in an old Winny. And hey, they also show 29.0 gr. HiVel for 1695 fps. as their heaviest load. You do have some HiVel don't you?

[pwl44m]

Uh!!, as a matter of fact I don't have any Hivel , what is it?
I have 2 old Lymans #45 and they don't show that bullet wt.
I can try the unique,is that a starting load ?
Thanks for the help.
Perry

[earlmck]

HiVel was discontinued by Hercules (now Alliant) quite a bunch of years ago. Just slightly faster than 3031, it was my favorite 30/30 powder for some years and then they quit making it. You would be totally OK to substitute 3031 for the HiVel loads shown. Anyway, here is the page from my book, and as you can see they don't say whether these are start loads or max loads. Just suggested loads, I guess. I put enough dpi there for it to be readable but you may need to click on it to make it big enough to see...

3855loads.jpg

[pwl44m]

Thx Earl,I think I do have some 3031 but think I will use Unique.
The Pic is perfect,I need to get My printer fixed.

[Mike D.]

Too bad that the excellent HiVel is a thing of the past.

[ohio hunter]

I have never used Hi Vel but have loaded quite a bit of 3031. 3031 is a great cast boolit powder along with 4895!
Jay

[Marvin S]

I shoot 10gr unique in my antique 1894 with a 260gr cast sized to .383.it has plenty of power for me.

[J Miller]

I've no experience with the 38-55, but I've got a lot of experience with Unique and 2400. So in this case I'd start with the 2400 powder and drop back the 10% to 15grs then work back up.

Unique is considerably faster than 2400 and will spike the pressure a lot faster.

Joe

[BigSky56]

from wolfe publishers Big Bore rifles and cartridges; 265 gr cast w/GC 34 grs 3031 for 1863 fps 4198 31 grs for 1870 fps and there was a load for Reloader 7 of 32 grs for a 275 gr cast GC but no FPS recorded Reloader 7 was the best of the powders for 255-280 gr bullets cast or jacketed. danny

[Yodar]

Here are some .38/55 loads using the 265 grain, round nose, flat point, gas check bullet sized 0.377 inch. All loads were put together with Winchester cases and Winchester large rifle primers. Bullets were obtained from Bonus Bullets (SAECO Mould # 373). Loads were fired in a restored Winchester Model 94 rifle with a 0.375 inch groove diameter 26 inch barrel.

1.) 23.3 grains of RL-7, MV=1518 fps, 1 3/16" 5 shot group at 50 yards.
2.) 23 grains of H-322, MV=1418 fps, 1 5/16" 5 shot group at 50 yards.
3.) 23.5 grains of H-322, MV=1473 fps, 1 3/16" 5 shot group at 50 yards.
4.) 24.5 grains of H-322, MV=1508 fps, 1 3/8" 5 shot group at 50 yards.

I hope this helps. I have some other loads for 240 and 250 grain cast lead bullets but you wanted loads for 265 grain bullets so I will stop here. Approach all loads carefully and no "hot rodding" handloads.

Happy New Year.

[pwl44m]

Thanks Guys, Your help satisfied My quest. I dont't want to push these too fast in this old Gun till I see what it is going to do.
I got primers yesterday and popped a few in last night. It has been 30 years since I have loaded anything and never used New brass, so should I size this new Starline brass or just load it up and shoot to form?
Perry

[Marvin S]

I would size it, at least the neck it it fits. You may have problems with the expanded internal dia and bullets at .380 may be a tight fit. There is an excellent article on loading the 38-55 just google it. It is called the 38-55 is back by John Taffin. Do check length, I get a lot of new brass that is to long from the get go.

[Sixgun]

I use a 270 gr. NEI gc in front of 21 gr. of 5744 for 1400. I've used it in 1893 Marlins, 1894 Winchesters and 1899 Savages--------not a few rounds here and there but thousands. Its my only load except for hunting then I use RL-7. 9 gr. of Unique will put them in one hole but it's trajectory is terrible past 100 or so

Hi-Vel #2---I have 3 one pound containers that are factory sealed and a fourth that I use from time to time. -------------Sixgun

[JBledsoe]

.

There are some things that you must keep in mind. The most important is that you have a "black powder " gun that was not designed for smokeless powder. That means no jacketed bullets and no gas checked bullets as a steady diet. You should keep velocities down to about 1200 feet per second because that old barrel is made of soft steel.

Stress is accumulative, one over pressure load may show no ill effects. That same load shot 20 times may show no ill effects, then without warning it may let go in the 21st shot. Maximum pressure for those guns was about 20,000 PSI so it is light loads only with smokeless powder.

Most of the 38-55 shooters that I know use 10 gr. Unique under both 255 and 265 cast bullets. That load also work great in my Marlin Cowboy rifles as well as my Winchesters. We recommend that you use a start load of 7 grs. and up to 9 grs. in that black powder barrel. 9 grs. will give about 1200 to 1250 fps and should be safe. Forget about pressure signs, the first over pressure sign that you will note will be parts flying past your ear.

Loading dies may be another issue. That .380 will almost certainly require RCBS cowboy dies. The standard seating die will often size the bullet down to .377 or so, regardless of original size. I hope that helps.

JB

[pwl44m]

That is what I am shooting for, about 1200. Don't want any parts flying past My ears.
Perry

[Marvin S]

This is straight out of a Lyman 3rd edition cast bullet manual. test gun was a Stevens 44 1/2 with 29" bbl.
249gr plain base Start load 7.0gr = 975 FPS 9.5gr = 1170 FPS
269gr GC start load 7.0gr = 935 FPS 9.0gr = 1080 FPS
This is for Unique Powder.

Other powders listed in this manual are Red dot, 700X, Green dot, and PB. If you need data for these powders let know. Also if you use Accurate brand powders I have the large manual from them that list cast loads.

[pwl44m]

Thx Marvin, I have red dot, green dot and PB. May consider those but for now I am going with Unique, I have plenty of it.
Perry

[gunner69]

I shoot a modern Winchester 94 and a modern Sharps in 38-55. For a 260gr FNGC bullet I use 30.0gr of H-4198. I got the data off LoadData.com, and both rifles like it and their is no pressure signs. It is an accurate load, and the deer are very unhappy with it.

[JBledsoe]

.

......."no pressure signs"....? You will not see pressure signs in these low pressure calibers. Pressure in excess of 60,000 to 70,000 psi is required before any evidence of excessive pressure can be detected. Dr. Don Heath of Norma writes of seeing pressures over 80,000 in a Mauser bolt gun that showed no signs of pressure.

Would you like to see the very first sign of over pressure in a 1886 Winchester? Pressure signs is another of many gun myths that has been repeated so often that it has become fact.

[Borregos]

Oh my.................................