Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

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Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by Henry McCann »

Has anyone seen or handled one of these? Availability? Price?

I'm in the market for a .45-70 and love my Browning 71 in .348, so a match in .45-70 would be fun. My dad has a Marlin in .444 that he likes a bunch so the Boarbuster might be an option for him or me too.

Thanks, Brett
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by Mike D. »

I don't care for the Boar Buster. The barrel is too short and that camo color is awful. I love the Kodiak Mk IV double rifle and the 86-71, of course. The photos don't show a rear sling attachment, but they should have one.
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by 6pt-sika »

I dunno I kinda like the Boar Buster , but of course I'd like it better if it had a plain old walnut stock and forend .

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda- ... -camo.html
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by 6pt-sika »

Yeah here's a Boar Buster with walnut !

I could certainly live with this one !

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda- ... uster.html
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by Henry McCann »

6pt-sika,

The walnut Boarbuster was the one I looked at and liked. I agree, I don't like the camo version very much and I really like the 22" barrel on the .444 that my dad owns.

I'm still hoping that someone owns or has handled one of these and has a real world price on them. Enjoyed your replies.
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by Rimfire McNutjob »

BTW, that blurb notes that it's proofed for factory loads up to 3550 BAR. That's 51,489 PSI in case anyone is wondering. That's right on up there for a lever action. I think it's commonly thought that even though the .348 WCF is run at 42,000 PSI that the modern 71/86 action is really good to 50,000 PSI. I don't run mine up that high but it's interesting to see a manufacturer mark a levergun above the 50,000 PSI level. Of course, it would make more power with a 22" or 24" barrel if one wanted to take full advantage of 3550 BAR.

I may have erred in my statement above about the .348 WCF being 42,000 PSI. I believe it's actually 42,000 CUP which is a bit over 46,000 PSI. I don't have my reference handy since I'm on this silly iPad thing.
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by 6pt-sika »

Henry McCann wrote:6pt-sika,

The walnut Boarbuster was the one I looked at and liked. I agree, I don't like the camo version very much and I really like the 22" barrel on the .444 that my dad owns.
As you may be well aware I already have several of the Marlin's with 22" barrels and a good many more with 24" barrels .
Also earlier this year I chopped one of 1966 vintage down to 19" and refinished the wood and metal . It's actually a pretty handy little rifle . Hence the reason I like this Boar Buster thing and of course since they have it set up so one can use a scope of sorts thats all the better !
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by Leverluver »

Rimfire McNutjob wrote:BTW, that blurb notes that it's proofed for factory loads up to 3550 BAR. That's 51,489 PSI in case anyone is wondering. That's right on up there for a lever action. I think it's commonly thought that even though the .348 WCF is run at 42,000 PSI that the modern 71/86 action is really good to 50,000 PSI. I don't run mine up that high but it's interesting to see a manufacturer mark a levergun above the 50,000 PSI level. Of course, it would make more power with a 22" or 24" barrel if one wanted to take full advantage of 3550 BAR.

I may have erred in my statement above about the .348 WCF being 42,000 PSI. I believe it's actually 42,000 CUP which is a bit over 46,000 PSI. I don't have my reference handy since I'm on this silly iPad thing.
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by Aggiecubpilot »

Notice that the photos of the camo Boar Buster have the bolt milled for a peep sight. I find that intriguing.
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by Ji in Hawaii »

That Boar Buster looks like a nice Alaska insurance policy. What's the rifling twist? If it can handle 320 grain loads it'd make a nice fishing partner. :wink:
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by 6pt-sika »

Friends Call Me Ji wrote:That Boar Buster looks like a nice Alaska insurance policy. What's the rifling twist? If it can handle 320 grain loads it'd make a nice fishing partner. :wink:
It says 1:54 :(

However that may be 1:54 centimeters one never knows !

IF it is actually 1:54 inches I expect 300 grain cast will be about tops .
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by Henry McCann »

Keeping this at the top. Thanks for the comments!
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by DPris »

As far as I know, the Boar Buster hasn't gone out yet. I'm in line for one in a couple months or so.

Supposed to be getting a Kodiak to play with next week, if the process goes through.

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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by 6pt-sika »

DPris wrote:As far as I know, the Boar Buster hasn't gone out yet. I'm in line for one in a couple months or so.
Yeah I called "Taylor's" In Winchester Virginia today to see what they could tell me since they're listed as a Pederosoli distributer and their response was less then helpfull . Girl I talked to had never heard of the gun and the regular girl that handled this part was on vacation until the thursday before Xmas . So I'll wait and call back next week . I'da atleast like to have found out what our dealer cost was going to be !

And "if" they had them in stock I woulda taken a copy of our license and driven over to take a look at one since Winchester's about 60 miles from us !
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by DPris »

I'm told 2-3 months to get a .444, longer to get a .45-70.
Not sure there's any in the country yet.
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by Martini450 »

I handled one of the standard 86/71 models up at Taylor's shop in Winchester, Virginia a couple of months back; it was a 45-70 and was a very nice rifle. Didn't bother asking the price, as I was looking to buy. Pedersoli makes a fine gun, at least judging from my Sharps.
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by DPris »

I'm dealing with IFG (Italian Firearms Group), associated with Pedersoli.
Apparently a new distribution consortium for increasing the US market.
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by 1894c »

6pt-sika wrote:I dunno I kinda like the Boar Buster , but of course I'd like it better if it had a plain old walnut stock and forend .

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda- ... -camo.html
boar-buster nice concept--ugly camo stock... :)
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by WCF3030 »

I like the walnut version. Wonder what the price tag will be.
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by 6pt-sika »

WCF3030 wrote:I like the walnut version. Wonder what the price tag will be.
I "suspect" something in the $1400-1600 area .
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by Henry McCann »

Thanks for all the information!
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by tman »

To each his own, but the Win 71 was designed around the .348WCF. For perfect feeding everytime when a brown bear surpises u close up. That's it's charm. 8)
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by new pig hunter »

I sent a note to Pedersoli re. the twist rate. He replied that it is 1:38

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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by 6pt-sika »

new pig hunter wrote:I sent a note to Pedersoli re. the twist rate. He replied that it is 1:38

Cheers,

Carl

Okay then the 444 should handle cast bullets up to 375 grains . Well as long as they're about 14 on the hardness scale or more and pushed kinda hard .
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by Mike D. »

If you've the notion the .444 could be taken to a totally new level through the 1886 action. It kinda leaves the 336 in the dirt strength wise.
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by 6pt-sika »

Mike D. wrote:If you've the notion the .444 could be taken to a totally new level through the 1886 action. It kinda leaves the 336 in the dirt strength wise.
Nope never thought any such nonsense !

But I figure if I push the bullets fast enough it should stabalize anything my herd of 1:38 Marlin's can handle .

I might even go as far as to try some of my 400 grain cast in one of these 86/71's . At the moment I can't push them fast enough to stabalize in a 1:38 Micro Groove barrel , but it's no problem in the faster twist ballard rifled barrel of my 2001 Marlin 444 .
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by Henry McCann »

Would still love to look one of these over. Or find someone that has.

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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by preventec47 »

[quote="6pt-sika"][quote="Mike D."].[/quote]

But I figure if I push the bullets fast enough it should stabalize anything my herd of 1:38 Marlin's can handle .

I might even go as far as to try some of my 400 grain cast in one of these 86/71's . At the moment I can't push them fast enough to stabalize in a 1:38 Micro Groove barrel , but it's no problem in the faster twist ballard rifled barrel of my 2001 Marlin 444 .[/quote]
////////////////////////////////////////

I think you have it wrong as far as thinking higher velocities reduce
the needed twist rate to stabilize. It is commonly agreed that in
44mag rifles that anything over 240 gr cannot be stabilized with
1-38 twist. I Know Marlin made a mistake but I dont understand
why Pedersoli would copy them with the slow twist rate ? ?
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by 6pt-sika »

preventec47 wrote:
6pt-sika wrote:
Mike D. wrote:.
But I figure if I push the bullets fast enough it should stabalize anything my herd of 1:38 Marlin's can handle .

I might even go as far as to try some of my 400 grain cast in one of these 86/71's . At the moment I can't push them fast enough to stabalize in a 1:38 Micro Groove barrel , but it's no problem in the faster twist ballard rifled barrel of my 2001 Marlin 444 .
////////////////////////////////////////

I think you have it wrong as far as thinking higher velocities reduce
the needed twist rate to stabilize. It is commonly agreed that in
44mag rifles that anything over 240 gr cannot be stabilized with
1-38 twist. I Know Marlin made a mistake but I dont understand
why Pedersoli would copy them with the slow twist rate ? ?

I may have it wrong you say ?

I've spent a good portion of the past TEN YEARS working with 1:38 slow twist Micro barrels in 444 and I think I'm well versed in what I say .

As to the 44 MAG in the same barrels thats BS also , I'm on my second circa 1967 Marlin 336-44 which is a 44 MAG with the 1:38 twist and it shoots 300 grain cast very nicely . I've even gone to a 325 grain mold I had cut for the 444 and it stabalizes that one well enough for decent 100 yard accuracy .

I NEVER said higher velocity was better then a faster twist , I have said NUMEROUSE times that "if" one wants to use up to a 375 grain cast bullet in the old Micro Groove 1:38 barrels they need atleast a 14 on the hardness scale and they need to push them pretty hard . I came to these conclusions thru actually shooting , not from "what is commonly agreed" . Commonly agreed isn't always the actual truth .
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by Mike D. »

If Pedersoli made the twist rate 1:22 things would be much more copacetic. The standard rate for the old BP .45-90 was 1:36, but when the HV loads were introduced and the Extra Lightweight .45-90s were built they had the faster 1:22 twist.
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by 6pt-sika »

Mike D. wrote:If Pedersoli made the twist rate 1:22 things would be much more copacetic. The standard rate for the old BP .45-90 was 1:36, but when the HV loads were introduced and the Extra Lightweight .45-90s were built they had the faster 1:22 twist.
If you look on the link I posted earlier in this thread it said something like 1:54 I believe .

There's nothing wrong with 1:38 if a person only shoots the "normal" vanilla factory loads . You start getting issues when you wanna go heavier in bullet weight . And if a person uses a little cognative reasoning when they cast and load they can figure that out as well .

The only reason I own a 444 with the ballard 1:20 rifling is because I wanted to shoot 400 grain cast bullets . Now do I need 400 grain cast bullets for anything I hunt ? Certainly not ! Do I "need" the heavy 375 and 350 grain bullets I shoot in the slow twist Micro Groove barrels ? Again the answer is certainly not !
But most of what people do now with any hunting gun is not a matter of "need" but rather a matter of "want" !

I want to shoot and play with those big bullets , there fore I find a way to do so :wink:
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by Mike D. »

The largest bullets I have used are 350s and only for elk. For deer I like the 250 Barnes TSX. Call me crazy, but I haven't put a 405 through any of my Winchesters in 40 yrs.
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by 6pt-sika »

Mike D. wrote:The largest bullets I have used are 350s and only for elk. For deer I like the 250 Barnes TSX. Call me crazy, but I haven't put a 405 through any of my Winchesters in 40 yrs.
To be totally honest "crazy" was never one of the words I considered calling you :lol:

I assume you are making reference to your 45-70 loads ?
With the 45-70 I'm not as adament about things . However I do posess molds for 425 , 465 and 550 grain bullets which I enjoy shooting from time to time . Again it's not a matter of "need" but more of "want" meaning I "want" to try them .

You on the other hand obviousely do not "want" nor "care" to try the heavies and that is certainly your perrogative !
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by Mike D. »

I am "eccentric". :lol: I have also never cast bullets, heck, I've never even melted lead except to do splicing on old lead UG cables. I use the 250 and 300 grainers in both .45-70 and .45-90 loads.
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by 6pt-sika »

Mike D. wrote:I am "eccentric". :lol: I have also never cast bullets, heck, I've never even melted lead except to do splicing on old lead UG cables. I use the 250 and 300 grainers in both .45-70 and .45-90 loads.

Casting is something someone truely has to WANT to do :wink:

Actually I find it rather relaxing if no ones bothers me while I'm doing it , but then the same can be said for the entire reloading practice .

If my memory serves me I've been casting for rifles maybe 11 or 12 years now . And probably for the past 3 or 4 years I've given up jacketed bullets in lever guns and revolvers . Not that anythings wrong with jacketed in either , just seems a bit more fun to me .

Now bolt actions and Ruger/Browning single shots I shot jacketed only . If I ever acquire a nice CPA Pope style Schuetzen rifle that will be a cast only deal as well .

Think I have 26-28 rifles that I cast for , 2 revolvers that I cast for and maybe 23-25 rifles I shoot jacketed in . To be honest life got alot simpler when I decided to just cast for the 444 and 45-70 granted I added a 44 MAG rifle to that equation about a month ago . But then all the revolvers I cast for are 44 MAG as well so no big deal !
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by Mike D. »

I used lead quite a bit before CA banned it. Even where legal it is frowned upon in PCCA. Entire ranges have been closed down for lead mitigation. It makes me want to vomit! :x
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by Old Savage »

I like the one with the oranage camo. Different, looks utilitarian.

A comparison of what MikeDs 250 loads in the Barnes TSX and my 300 gr loads loads on same demonstrates that Mike's choice is the way to go.
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by pricedo »

Mike D. wrote:If you've the notion the .444 could be taken to a totally new level through the 1886 action. It kinda leaves the 336 in the dirt strength wise.

There are several power levels of .45-70 ammo loads as far as I can see....legacy/black powder.....Marlin 1895......Ruger #1.

I'm hoping that the 1886/71 action with those huge locking lugs will put it near the Ruger #1 level.

Doug Turnbull makes 1886/71s in the monstrous .475 Turnbull which is a chipmunks fanny burp shy of a .458 Winchester Mag.

Only trouble is that the Turnbulls are quite a bit more expensive than the Pedersolis.

I wouldn't touch the Miroku Japchester 1886/71s cause they're smothered in "Nanny knows best" safety gadgetry (rebounding hammer, tang safety).

The Pedersoli is an honest to goodness "blueprint" unadulterated 1886/71.

The guns are out and I've got dibs on a Pedersoli Premium grade 1886/71 in .45-70 for just under $1500.

Has anybody developed any loads for these guns yet?
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by Mike D. »

I might buy one of these and make a .40-82 on steroids. Sad about the lack of decent .406 bullets, except for Hawk, of course. I'd like a 1/22 twist on a 22" barrel. I was gonna sacrifice a clunker .33 that I stripped down and send the barrel out to be bored to .406 but might wait for the Pedersoli. :)
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by Ranch Dog »

6pt-sika wrote:
WCF3030 wrote:I like the walnut version. Wonder what the price tag will be.
I "suspect" something in the $1400-1600 area .
$1650 and they will not be available prior to April 15.
Martini450
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by Martini450 »

Can't speak for current stock, but Taylor's had them in their warehouse ready to sell, with the walnut stock, just a few months ago in the Autumn. I handled one, and it was a very nice rifle.
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pricedo
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by pricedo »

Martini450 wrote:Can't speak for current stock, but Taylor's had them in their warehouse ready to sell, with the walnut stock, just a few months ago in the Autumn. I handled one, and it was a very nice rifle.
I could have a Pedersoli Premium grade in .45-70 in my living room polishing it by this coming Monday afternoon.

I don't know where April 15 (possibly specific to Cherry's) came from cause the guns have been out & about & on store racks for months.
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by Grizzly Adams »

I wouldn't touch the Miroku Japchester 1886/71s cause they're smothered in "Nanny knows best" safety gadgetry (rebounding hammer, tang safety).

The Pedersoli is an honest to goodness "blueprint" unadulterated 1886/71.

The guns are out and I've got dibs on a Pedersoli Premium grade 1886/71 in .45-70 for just under $1500.
You Sir, are going to be a happy man! Had a chance handle both the standard and the Premium grade at the Shot Show. Very smooth and totally traditional. Pedesoli's quality is second to none. :)

As an aside, I noticed the the Premium (case colored frame) grade rifle had a very nasty gouge in the top of the frame just behind the barrel. I asked the gentleman from Pedersoli about it, and he said that it had happened within a half hour of them putting the rifles out for display. Someone came by and vandalized the rifle with a file. They were pretty upset..
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pricedo
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by pricedo »

Grizzly Adams wrote:
I wouldn't touch the Miroku Japchester 1886/71s cause they're smothered in "Nanny knows best" safety gadgetry (rebounding hammer, tang safety).

The Pedersoli is an honest to goodness "blueprint" unadulterated 1886/71.

The guns are out and I've got dibs on a Pedersoli Premium grade 1886/71 in .45-70 for just under $1500.
You Sir, are going to be a happy man! Had a chance handle both the standard and the Premium grade at the Shot Show. Very smooth and totally traditional. Pedesoli's quality is second to none. :)

As an aside, I noticed the the Premium (case colored frame) grade rifle had a very nasty gouge in the top of the frame just behind the barrel. I asked the gentleman from Pedersoli about it, and he said that it had happened within a half hour of them putting the rifles out for display. Someone came by and vandalized the rifle with a file. They were pretty upset..
Never could understand vandalism or vandals especially to beautiful objects like that gun musta been.

I can understand theft because you get to keep something that doesn't belong to you if you don't get caught.

I don't condone theft but it at least makes sense.

Vandals were always an enigma (translation - really weird)
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pricedo
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by pricedo »

Grizzly Adams wrote:
I wouldn't touch the Miroku Japchester 1886/71s cause they're smothered in "Nanny knows best" safety gadgetry (rebounding hammer, tang safety).

The Pedersoli is an honest to goodness "blueprint" unadulterated 1886/71.

The guns are out and I've got dibs on a Pedersoli Premium grade 1886/71 in .45-70 for just under $1500.
Pedesoli's quality is second to none. :)
Even better than a Rossi !!! :lol:
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kaschi
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by kaschi »

Maybe those vandals were spies from Winchester/Miroku who envy the fact that Pedersoli's rifle does not have the rebounding hammer and tang safety. Could have been revenge!
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pricedo
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by pricedo »

kaschi wrote:Maybe those vandals were spies from Winchester/Miroku who envy the fact that Pedersoli's rifle does not have the rebounding hammer and tang safety. Could have been revenge!
That "Nanny Knows Best" add-on junk is costing Winchester sales that's for sure.
I'd probably own at least a couple of the new Winchesters if it wasn't for the safety infrastructure pollution.
Now I have to go to Pedersoli because they're the only company I know that sells unadulterated model 1886/71s.
There are custom makers like Turnbull Mfg. but the prices are in the stratosphere.
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pricedo
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by pricedo »

"Cod. 010S740457 Caliber .45-70 Grooves 6
mm inches
Twist 460 1:18
Barrel's length 610 24
Overall length 1080 42 9/16
kg lbs
Weight 3,700 7.49"


Above data for the Pedersoli M71 (.45-70) copied & pasted right off the Davide Pedersoli website.
Looks to me like a 24" barrel, approx 7.5 pounds, OAL 42 9/16" and a 1 in 18 barrel twist.
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by DPris »

Got word today from the IFG consortium that includes Pedersoli that the short-barreled camo Boarbuster announced last year is not being imported after all & apparently won't be.
No idea why they announced it or why it's on their website.
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Re: Pedersoli 86/71 in .45-70 and Boarbuster in .444?

Post by kaschi »

That's so weird because IMO they'd probably sell more in the US than all other countries put together, especially without the rebounding hammer and tang safety.
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