Puma LSI 454 Stainless Trapper

[1886]

Hi All, I have a shot at an LSI Puma .454 stainless trapper w/hi vis sights. Condition is as new w/box, papers, etc. I do not like to over pay. I have looked at the auctions and can not find a representative example with which to compare. I would appreciate any feedback. Thanks in advance, 1886.

[COSteve]

Deleted

[1886]

Hi Steve, I checked their web page earlier. I am of the opinion the .454 model is no longer available. Is this true? Thanks, 1886.

[Buffboy]

The one I have came from Davidsons as a limited edition (not cheap) a couple-three years before they became available as a standard item. It went to Steve's Guns for a work over before it came to me. In addition to his action job, I had a big loop lever, Marble full buckhorn and small gold bead sights installed. What I paid was quite a bit more than the standard costs now. IIRC think I have pretty close to $800 in mine total. The few I've seen for sale since hover in that $500-600 range new. I've never come across a used one but would expect to see it at that $400-450 range(95%+ condition) if they actually plan to sell it.

[1886]

Thank you all. Are these still a regularly cataloged item? Thanks, 1886.

[AJMD429]

My information was INCORRECT....

Thanks NKJ for correcting me...!

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Hi Steve, I checked their web page earlier. I am of the opinion the .454 model is no longer available. Is this true? Thanks, 1886.

Yep. No longer produced, but you'll see a few turn up here and there; mostly blued ones.

If you want it, better get it now.

It seems to be a gun you shouldn't shoot "hot" .454 loads in, if you believe what is stated on many of the forums about the round being right at (or perhaps right above) the maximum pressure for that action.

Then again, with that round, a 'mild' load is a THUMPER...

Where are you getting your info? I have three brand new ones here now, just arrived this month. I have sold seveal over the years and the only ones that has problems with heavy loads were guns that had headspace problems from the get-go. They would have been a problem even with down loaded ammo.

Here is the current Rossi Braztech list.

ROSSI 2010 FULL LINE CATALOG

The stainless 454's are 2nd and 3rd from the bottom.

1886,
I sell the new stainless 454's for $580.

[AJMD429]

I think I must have misunderstood when you and BuckElliott were talking about them back in 2008 -
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... ch#p145541

As Always, YMMV...

EVERY one of the Puma .454 carbines I have seen -- and it might only be a couple dozen, to be sure -- has had problems. Some have had the difficulties that NKJ mentioned, some are beginning to stretch and even show signs of widening -- i.e. seperating -- at the rear of the receiver. The angled geometry of the locking lugs in relation to the receiver seems to be the culprit. A couple that have been shot a LOT, and with top-end loads, are loosing up fore-&-aft, even showing incipient head space problems.

In short, the Puma '92 in .454 is at the very upper threshhold of its capabilties. I wanted something with a greater safety margin, not just marginal safety...

I agree, the 92 is at it's max in 454. I think the locking bolts are actual trying to turn slightly. sort of like trying to use a 2x6 as a pry bar. It's much strongest on edge as opposed to flat but if your aren't careful it will try to fold/twist over. I wish Rossie would beef up the frame web inside there just behind the locking bolts. I think that would help prevent that spreading widening issue.

...but I guess I didn't read the post above that one...

When I first heard they were bring it out I was skeptical. I didn't think the Rossi would take the pressure. Well, I was partly right and wrong. The Action/lockbox is doing well, but the recoil was causing some of the earlier gun jerk the pinned in mag tubes out and split the butstocks at the wrist. The current gun though are much better. They all have screwed in mag tubes that cured that problem. Rossi added a nylon pillar in the stock that helped some but the best solution to the stock probles is to glass bed them front and rear.
I wasn't too crazy about working on these early on. I felt the same as you about warranty-ing my work. Then the 92 action is at it's max OAL so they can be ammo sensitive so was a concern.
But 5 or 6 years later now I've done several and haven't had one come back with any problems.

As far as them not being 'available', that's just what the guy at Gander Mountain told me about a year and a half ago when I asked; they had a couple blued ones left and he said that was all there were going to be, as their distributors were no longer listing them since the company changed hands.

I think we all were under that impression at one time -
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... 54#p147940

At this time EMF will continue to import the Rossi 92's they call their Hartford model 92. Taurus has already accepted the EMF orders for 09. EMF has never carried the 454 or 480 gun but if there is enough interest I'm sure they would consider it.

...but again, I failed to keep abreast of the latest (...well...January 2010 wasn't that long ago... ) developments...!

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... ck#p293695

Good news today. While I was checking one of my distributors on-line inventory for availability's I see the 20" stainless 454's are back on the shelf. I suspect the 16" SS and the 20" blues will soon be available too.

Although it's been a year now, I still haven't seen them back on local dealer's shelves though...

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

I think I must have misunderstood when you and BuckElliott were talking about them back in 2008 -
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... ch#p145541

As Always, YMMV...

EVERY one of the Puma .454 carbines I have seen -- and it might only be a couple dozen, to be sure -- has had problems. Some have had the difficulties that NKJ mentioned, some are beginning to stretch and even show signs of widening -- i.e. seperating -- at the rear of the receiver. The angled geometry of the locking lugs in relation to the receiver seems to be the culprit. A couple that have been shot a LOT, and with top-end loads, are loosing up fore-&-aft, even showing incipient head space problems.

In short, the Puma '92 in .454 is at the very upper threshhold of its capabilties. I wanted something with a greater safety margin, not just marginal safety...

I agree, the 92 is at it's max in 454. I think the locking bolts are actual trying to turn slightly. sort of like trying to use a 2x6 as a pry bar. It's much strongest on edge as opposed to flat but if your aren't careful it will try to fold/twist over. I wish Rossie would beef up the frame web inside there just behind the locking bolts. I think that would help prevent that spreading widening issue.

...but I guess I didn't read the post above that one...

When I first heard they were bring it out I was skeptical. I didn't think the Rossi would take the pressure. Well, I was partly right and wrong. The Action/lockbox is doing well, but the recoil was causing some of the earlier gun jerk the pinned in mag tubes out and split the butstocks at the wrist. The current gun though are much better. They all have screwed in mag tubes that cured that problem. Rossi added a nylon pillar in the stock that helped some but the best solution to the stock probles is to glass bed them front and rear.
I wasn't too crazy about working on these early on. I felt the same as you about warranty-ing my work. Then the 92 action is at it's max OAL so they can be ammo sensitive so was a concern.
But 5 or 6 years later now I've done several and haven't had one come back with any problems.

As far as them not being 'available', that's just what the guy at Gander Mountain told me a few months ago when I asked; they had a couple blued ones left and he said that was all there were going to be...

Those guns did have excessive headspace. But, now I'm convinced they had excessive headspace all along. I have sold several since then checking headspace before they were sent out and none have had those problems. I still wish Rossi would beef up the web there just behind the locking bolts, though.

P.S. I would add too. I always recommend glass bedding the stocks. Rossi cured the mag tube jumping out by going to a screwed in tube but the wood is still getting beat up. Better wood and fit would help but glassing them is more econimical.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

The problem with the availability is Rossi/Taurus have been off doing all these other project, like the Ranch hand, the Rio grande (marlin 336 copy ) and the revolving carbine/judge thing. I have been waiting on one 16" ss 454 since 12-09. They are just now starting to show up again. I still need 2 more and a ss 20", too.

BTW, if anyone is looking I did score an extra 20" blue 454.

[rogn]

As an aside to the topic, the 45 Colt can safely handle a 300JHP @ about 1700 FPS, which is in the same catagory as 30-30 as far as horse power but has big hole effect. A robust revolver such as big Rugers can handle the same load. Theres not much on this continent that will shrug that off. May be a better pragmatic, safer alternative.

[1886]

Thanks to everyone. I had been told these were no longer available. I am glad I asked the question. There seems to be considerable interest. 1886.